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The Carmichael coal mine in Queensland

swilow

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Any thoughts on this absolute travesty? Whilst this is still up in the air to some extent, I am quietly/sadly confident that it will go ahead.

Effectively, it will be one of the worlds largest coal mines situated in central Queensland with a lifespan of about 60 years, digging up about 2.3 billion tonnes (though it magically increases to around 4 billion when the government are trying to sell the project) of coal. Almost entirely foreign owned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmichael_coal_mine

A few points:

  • It is thought that something like 60% of the coal is to be exported to India.
  • Exporting it will require a "free" trainline. Deepening of coal ports, with some of the spoils being dumped near the Great Barrier Reef.
  • Exporting this much coal is to ocurr dangerously close to the rapidly declining Great Barrier Reef
  • Despite promising thousands of jobs, the company behind this project (the Adani group) have also mentioned that the mine will largely be run autonomously.
  • There are reports of pressure on indigenous Australian native title holders to consent to this development
  • The mine will use an incredible amount of water and will source this water largely from the depeleted Great Artesian Basin
  • None of the major banks in Australia have been willing to finance this project, whether through fears of environmental destruction or simply the negative PR of funding a long term, environmentally unsustainable and 'archaic' source of energy. Either way, I agree with their stance.

I feel pretty angry that this will probably go ahead. I think it demonstrates an incredible slavery to our economy when we utterly know the consequences of coal mining, and we can see that Australia will hardly benefit from this, and yet an international consortium seems to have more power in Australia than Australians. It is pure capitalism and short-sighted greed which is pushing this forward. Australia has an abundance of fossil fuels and it is really what kept us afloat during the GFC. I think we are afraid of becoming even more economically irrelevant; we really don't have many other industries besides the energy sector. And yet, by the end of this mines lifespan, I would be shocked if the world is not using sustainable energy. This will simply be a filthy relic of past myopia.

Any thoughts on this matter?
 
As a West Australian, I say its about time the other states dug into their plentiful resources for once and stopped relying on WA for mining. This will tip the balance of gst due us.

We get 38c back from every dollar and that is bullshit. QLD need to step up and contribute.


Having said that, its going to be a blight on the landscape and its weird a wind farm was knocked back for being a blight on the landscape.


All mines are run semi automatically. You still need people of course but they drive remotely. Shame really. The ore trains up north in WA are all automatic. Haulpacks are automatic. But there will be a lot of jobs going and now the work visas have been reviewed it will be interesting to see how many jobs will be local to QLD or fifo.



Edit: Australia needs to go beyond primary industry and invest in technology. In particular mining technology. There are too many international companies mining here. We have enough people with the brains to do it ourselves.


There are better ways to mine than is being done now but not enough insight.
 
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This mine is Trump-esque in its backwards stupidity.
The LNP (federal and state) fucked it for WA by getting fuck all for the people of Western Australia in terms of taxes for minerals exploited, and all the money went to the greedy mining companies who cut and run when the growth of the Chinese economy slowed, leaving WA in a recession.
There is no reason for Queensland to repeat the same mistakes and kill what's left of the Great Barrier Reef.
This fight needs to be hot issue for the next federal election.

Adani are trying to force the Australian govt to pay for the infastructure to build this filthy monstrosity at the moment.
Coal is yesterday's fuel. Dirty at the source and when it is used in energy production. Bad for everyone. Adani can fuck right off in my opinion.
Clean coal is a dirty lie.
 
If Adani actually get the QLD govt to build it and then get to send the coal to India (at what- mates rates/ cost) then thats simply laughable.


Rio Tinto have yilt their own mines or paid for existing mine infrastructure. I just read their shareholders letter. They are off loading a few mines for capital so maybe they can compete here?

What India needs to realise is that Australia is so slow with its buearocracy in big projects like this it wont ever see the light of day unless they make it worth their while (build it themselves).

The GST isnt carved up by the states, its carved up by the Commonwealth. Turnbull just says its a state issue so he doesnt have to answer questions.


QLD does need revenue as theyve had a history of dickheads in power.

This Palashuick lady seems pretty alright though re the reef and environment.

Shes a novice but give her a chance. She has put a stop to dredging around the reef before and stopped a deeper port being built in FNQ but who knows?
 
Who is funding this project? Is it private banks (non-Aus), or government funded?

Private banks would make me think it's still financially viable. Government-funded would make me think the project has more risk.

Also, why can't the dredgings be put on land instead of dumped at sea?
 
No one is. Mind you Westpac have not responded publically and they fund plenty of fucked up shit (palm oil in Burma).

Even if it gets the go ahead it wont happen for at least 20 years so thats enough time to stop it but thats up to our kids.

The WA govt took 22 years to rebuild the Swan Brewery. I wouldnt be too worried.

Its a huge project. Do you seriously think our inept bumbling fool govt could get this going ?

Lol . Doubt it. If it does go ahead QLD wont see much from GST and WA will hopefully break even.


Btw dredgings will go on land, but everything ends up in the ocean eventually.
 
The mining company are putting a lot of pressure on the government to invest in the project and infastructure to support it, and want a favourable "royalty agreement" before committing to the project.
It's an environmental step backwards in so many ways, and is typical of the myopic crony capitalists that run/fund the major political parties in Australia.
There is a high-stakes game of political and economic brinksmanship going on at the moment.

Adani pressures Queensland government by putting investment decision on ice

2017 is not the time to be building Australia's largest ever coal mine, I think the proposal is an absolute disgrace.
 
^Can you really see our government investing anything in this project, anything at all, given that there are no other financial backers and the cost of coal doesnt make it worthwhile?


India uses a lot of coal, so do other nations. Its not going to be a concern of theirs if the environment has any impact.

Im having a laugh at the audacity that this company has expecting any type of financial help.

Theres a now defunct railway system thats just out of service in QLD. It only needs a short extension.


Even if this Government say yes, realistically, what does that matter? This Government only just scraped in using the barrier reef as leverage.

I think it will be put on the back burner for a very long time and isnt going to go ahead as it is.

If anything it could be split into two or three projects.

Never fear. Sometimes having a govt incapable of making decisions is a good thing. The last thing they need right now is a massive pain in the arse problem like this mine.


There are heaps of untouched mineral deposits all over QLD and NT. There will be many proposals like this.


The uranium thing is likely to come up again too. Nuclear power is cleaner than coal technically.
 
The Queensland State Government seem to be at a crossroads, and the Federal Government, in their infinite wisdom (lack therof) are seem to be backing it all the way.
I don't trust these clowns - they're all about short term economic gains, propping up their big-business backers and the "big end of town" - and have sold the Australian people (and the bountiful landmass we are mere custodians of) many, many times before.

I really hope this goes the way of the ill-fated gas processing hub that was all-but a done deal at James Price Point for Woodside.
These people will sell us (and our natural resources) up the river for the highest bidder offering a pittance.
The mining boom absolutely fucked the WA economy, it was so badly mismanaged by the LNP at both a state and federal level. I do not trust our elected representatives to do the right thing by their consituents, the country or the planet.

It's all backroom big business deals. There will be a massive fucking shitfight if the govt (state and fed) do end up backing this disasterous project.
Just another reason to turf the fucking LNP out in every state, territory and federal consitutuency (not that the ALP are that much better, frankly)

They're all beholden to their fossil fuel overlords.
 
You need to realise that politicians just do the bare minimum they need to to keep their own jobs and big things like this get pushed back and back so it will be the next elected persons problem.

This project is huge. Its too big. No one is going to want to touch it. Staying in power is too important and mire important than us taxpayers sj.


Look. Eventually the fossil fuels we have are going to be wanted at a decent price and the environment doesnt really count as much as the dollar. All the top end is going to be in danger one way or the other.

Lets just hope the govt stays as it is. Bumbling turds that do fuck all


Also- The state govt of QLD is labor. The commonwealth is Liberal. They wont work it out. Neither will want to contribute and will say its the others responsibility.


I dont think India realises how dumb they are and just expects a yes or no. Lol.
 
The Queensland Labor govt are facing a major backlash from the electorate (with an election looming) and this is likely to be a major issue i think.

Mining is an essential part of Australia's economy, but this is bad for many, many reasons.
I'm not suggesting that investing in renewables is the only thing governments should be doing, but the mantra of "jobs" above all else is a major distraction from some of the bigger issues.

The proposals of giving free water (a priceless and increasingly scarce commodity in Australia and the whole world), major tax concessions and enormous taxpayer-funded infastructure works to get it off the ground are too much to stomach - without eveing getting into the bigger-picture environmental issues (such as greenhouse gas emissions resulting from coal-fired power stations, and the inevitable further damage to the already dying Barrier Reef).

I share your distrust of politicians, but i know all too well that the major parties are slippery, self-interested bastards who would sell out their constituents, their principles and their country to do the bidding of major mining interests.
It's not so much stupidity as it is flagrant self-interest, as i see it.

We - as a nation - need to demand more from those who profit (often largely un-[or under] taxed) mining interests (such as Rhinehart, Forrest et al). Countries such as Norway were able to invest huge amounts of money into the wellbeing and social interests of their economy from the mining of their oil and gas deposits.
The Norwegian economy - and Norwegian people - have benefitted from exploitation of their natural resources.
Australia didn't do that with the resources boom that came from the huge economic and industrial growth of China around the turn of the century.
It's left us with very little - and left Western Australia in the worst recesssion since the 1930s. It was terribly managed in terms of government investment and resource royalties, and unfortunately the people of WA are really seeing the down side of that now. With the same ideological interests running the show on the federal level at the moment, i'm not feeling very reassured about this proposed mine, which would be a total disaster for so many reasons (quite few of which swilow outlines in the OP).

Neo-liberals with the mining companies in their pockets; not to be trusted.
 
The QLD govt has no money to invest in this anyway. Theyll just blame Turnbull in the upcoming elections.

Its about blame shifting really.

Yes QLD is very pastoral and mining and working class. People need jobs.

Its very unlikely even if there are thousands of jobs created that they will go to locals and everyone all over the country will want fifo contracts. This brings nothing to the local economy and everyone will just end up the same as the WA mining boom.


I just think people wont believe anything anyone says in elections as its just all bullshit anyway. This mine will not be settled in the next term either. More likely they will promise to look into it but wont even do that.
 
Quickly dropping by to say this mine will create zero or very few mines. It will force the closure of all the Hunter Valley mines and other coal areas purely based on economies of scale. We are giving them a billion dollar loan? Five years royalty free? Fuck give that money to healthcare or education. This shit makes me so angry. Our politicians are just bought and paid for. Political donations of any kind should be outright banned.
 
^ Never look close at any government spending it always amounts to taking a small amount from the poor (taxes) and handing it to the rich (business incentives). Sometimes it creates a few jobs that improve conditions in an area for a short time but ultimately any money spilt into the population is vacuumed up by banking practices and returns to the wealth holders quickly. In fact, to stay happy, it's best not to look to long at how finances and the economy work globally, it becomes depressing when you start to realize just how many people do nothing but live at great expense to those that do.

I've found it I let resentment or entitlement become my mental state I'm just less happy than if I don't give a fuck. The hard part is a lot of us really are the good men who are doing nothing.
 
this has been such a hard-fought campaign against all of the major mainstream political forces in this country - but if this is true (which i really hope it is) - it will be a triumph of people power over greed, big money interests and the massively destructive fossil fuel industry.



Is this the end of the road for Adani’s Australian megamine?



Australian and Chinese banks have turned it down, and analysts say Adani’s failure to secure funding for the Carmichael mine leaves it high and dry

Adani’s operations in Australia appear to be hanging on by a thread, as activists prove effective at undermining the company’s chances of getting the finance it needs.
China seems to have ruled out funding for the mine, which means it’s not just Adani’s proposed Carmichael coalmine that is under threat, but also its existing Abbot Point coal terminal, which sits near Bowen, behind the Great Barrier Reef.
The campaign against the mine has been long. Environmentalists first tried to use Australia’s environmental laws to block it from going ahead, and then failing that, focused on pressuring financial institutions, first here, and then around the world.
The news that Beijing has left Adani out to dry comes as on-the-ground protests against construction of the mine pick up. Two Greens MPs, Jeremy Buckingham and Dawn Walker, have been arrested in Queensland for disrupting the company’s activities.
Is China’s move the end of the road for Adani’s mega coalmine in Australia, and will the Adani Group be left with billions of dollars in stranded assets?
Environmental laws fail to halt mine

Despite the mine threatening to destroy some of the best remaining habitat of threatened species of birds and lizards, federal environmental laws proved unable to stop the mine in the face of a government that wanted it to go ahead.
The initial federal approval for the mine was overturned after it was revealed the then-minister for the environment, Greg Hunt, had ignored his own department’s advice about the mine’s impact on two vulnerable species, the yakka skink and the ornamental snake.

Another court challenge argued the approval was invalid because the emissions caused by the mine – which would be greater than those of New York City – were a threat to the Great Barrier Reef. Hunt argued in court, successfully, that there was no definite link between coal from Adani mine and climate change.But Australia’s environmental law leaves very little opportunity for challenging the merits of a minister’s decision – it only allows for challenges on whether those decisions considered everything required by the law. As a result, the minister needed only approve it again, after formally considering the impact on the two species.
It became apparent Australia’s environmental laws were unable to stop a project like this if the government of the day was determined to push it through.

Targeting finance

Although further court challenges remained on the cards, they could only serve to delay the project. So activists changed tactics, aiming to undermine the company’s chances of securing finance for the mine and its associated infrastructure.
While threats to reputational damage were not effective against Adani Group, since it is family-owned, the same was not true of Australian banks, which were targeted heavily by activists.
And one by one, each of the big four Australian banks ruled out financing the mine.
The first of the big four banks declared it would not lend to the project two years ago. NAB distanced itself from the mine in September 2015 and ANZ followed suit in December.
Then in April this year Westpac became the third of the big banks to rule out funding the project, drawing criticism from resources minister, Matthew Canavan, who said the bank had a conflict of interest because of its interest in other coal-producing regions, and called for a boycott of the bank.
Undeterred, and in the face of a large campaign by environmental groups, the Commonwealth bank followed suit in August this year.
By then Adani had seen the writing on the wall, and had shifted to seek finance from overseas institutions. It entered negotiations with the state-owned China Machinery Engineering Corporation (CMEC), which was thought to raise the potential of subsidised Chinese government loans.
The Australian government, which was seeking to give Adani its own subsidised loan, had supported the company’s efforts in China, according to a freedom of information request by the Australia Institute that reveals “several hundred pages” relating to formal representations to foreign financiers by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.
In a Senate estimates hearing, it was revealed that the minister for trade, Steve Ciobo, and the deputy prime minister, Barnaby Joyce, had written a letter to the Chinese government confirming the mine had received all necessary environmental approvals.
But even support from the highest levels of Australian government could not secure Chinese financing for the project – the activists won again.
Pressure from the Australian Conservation Foundation, with assistance from former foreign minister Bob Carr, has resulted in news this week that China will not be cooperating with Adani on the Carmichael project.

It also noted that “no Chinese banking institution has made any financing commitment to the project”.In a letter to ACF’s Geoff Cousins, China’s Australian embassy said that Beijing had “taken note” of his concerns, and that while a Chinese entity had been negotiating with Adani, it had terminated the negotiation process “due to the absence of commercial feasibility”.
Where to now for Adani?

Adani’s spokesman in Australia says he isn’t willing to comment on the revelation, without seeing the communication from China.
But according to most commentators, financing from China was the end of the line for the company’s operations in Australia.

“Approaching China would seem like the last roll of the dice so Carmichael is now looking even more like the definition of a stranded asset,” says Simon Nicholas, an analyst from the pro-renewables Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis (Ieefa).
“Although there have been many twists and turns on Carmichael already, which makes it hard to predict,” Nicholas says. “Adani is faced with writing off their A$1.4bn investment if they can’t get the project going so they’ll continue to state that they are pursuing funding and make it sound like everything’s under control.”
Tim Buckley, also from Ieefa, says the news is a major blow to the Carmichael project, and will mean there is unlikely to be much movement from Adani until after the federal court hears a case brought by representatives of the Wangan and Jagalingou, the traditional owners of the site of the mine.
Julien Vincent from financial activist group Market Forces agrees, saying the company is a bit hard to predict, and has a lot hanging on the project’s success.
But Vincent says the fact every major bank in Australia has ruled out financing it, and the Chinese government is saying the project is not viable, it will be surprising if another financer jumps on board.
“We’ve now got probably the vast majority of the top 20 coal-funding banks worldwide saying they’re not going to fund the project,” Vincent said. “That’s massively influential.”
The two options that might seem possible are loans from banks in India, or financing from other Adani Group companies in India.
Cousins says both these options are unlikely to work. “I believe [the Carmichael project] is dead in the water.”
He says when he was travelling in India, lobbying against the project, he was told by “people connected to the Bank of India” that it had never loaned any money to the Carmichael project. He said without a loan from the Australian government, loans from Indian banks seemed unlikely.
And the idea that other Adani Group companies might cross-subsidise the Carmichael project was counter to the apparent strategy of Adani Group to buffer itself from the risky Australian operations.
And if the Carmichael project doesn’t succeed, that makes keeping the Abbot point venture afloat harder. That project is due for refinancing, and Westpac – currently one of its major lenders – has already indicated it would not refinance its loans on environmental grounds.
“Abbot Point needs to refinance A$1.5bn in 2018 which was already going to be difficult,” Nicholas says.
Buckley says Adani will make sure the refinancing happens, but at a significant cost to the company. “The $1.5bn debt refinancing by November 2018 will be problematic – they’ll get it done, but the price will be high.”A report he recently co-authored with Buckley shows the port is only being half-utilised, and needs Carmichael to succeed in order to make Abbot Point profitable. “With Carmichael looking ever more doubtful, the task of refinancing Abbot Point has become even harder.”
Buckley says without financing, coalmining in the Galilee basin is dead.
“There will be no other buyer – Adani has invested $1.5bn, invested seven years, they are one of the richest groups in India,” Buckley says, adding if it isn’t able to get the project over the line, nobody will be.
“That’s why we’ve heard nothing from GVK,” he says, referring to the proposed Alpha coalmine in the Galilee Basin, adjacent to the Carmichael mine. It is a joint venture between Indian company GVK and Gina Rinehart’s Hancock Prospecting,
“That’s why the Galilee has not been developed for 50 years. The coal industry has known about it for the last couple of decades,” he says. “Nobody has built anything there because it is too remote – the costs are too high.”

Link
 
Thanks for sharing spacejunk! Let's hope that this project never receives the funding it needs. I haven't read much on this issue recently, but I am pleased that there seems to be good reason to be optimistic that this project will never get off the ground. :)
 
Me too. It's amazing how powerful environmental lobbying can be, especially when it comes to the financial backers of huge industrial projects like this.

I really didn't expect the James Price Point gas hub to be canned a few years back, but fortunately it was.
It's a nice change to see something positive in this regard.
 
These energy companies are a disgrace. Massey Energy CEO Don Blankenship got out of prison only to go on and run for public office in West Virginia

 
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