5-HT2 said:
Isn't not remembering you've done drugs part and parcel of an OBE? I've never broken through on DMT or 5-MeO-DMT so I have nothing to compare salvia to. Also, I tend to remember most of the peak, although details can be blurry. However, tripping on other psychedelics makes these memories more accessible.
Well I don't know enough about OBE's to really say anything in that regards; but in comparison to large doses of DMT and/or 5-MeO-DMT, the memory of taking a drug may not be present, but it doesn't seem of great concern. Those drugs and their effects feel more like a natural extension of the minds processes to me.
I really don't follow your logic on this. Why would the body need to metabolize salvia, but not the more dangerous and deliriant datura, extremely rapidly?
Hmm, I'm not sure if there actually was any logic involved; I really meant that I think, upon salvinorin hitting the kappa-opioid clefts, the body (I believe) releases its whole cavalcade of stress-hormones; this I believe through experiencing panic attacks etc. whilst sober. This may be different for everyone; but I'm pretty sure that smoking salvia HAS to be accompanied by the bodies natural stress response; ie. fight-or-flight, which for anyone who's been able to observe themselves while in that mode, would know that its very very perceptually weird- add salvia to the mix....or add that mix to salvia.... I haven't really smoked salvia without extreme fear, so I can't say if I'm experiencing a natural bodily reaction or salvinorin-mediated
Perhaps datura, as has been suggested, and the effects of it are not mediated or created by anti-cholinergic effects, but the rebound from inhibition of acetyl-choline. Thus, in a sense its a natural process of resynthesising choline being either interrupted and then rebounding dramtaciall, or just being interrupted, in a simlar way to how MAOi's interrupt monoamine metabolism, a process which gradually reverses. I guess thats why there is a prolonged 'come-down' from deleriants.
You shouldn't ask me questions like this 5ht2 because I can only give really specualtive and possibly ludicrous answers, but I'll try....
I've definitely had strong mutual empathic (telepathic?) experiences with other people (who hadn't taken salvia) while in the midst of a salvia OBE. As for sensing the collective unconscious, it's hard to say if that's what's happening. Perhaps the extreme dissociation experienced under salvia is simply a consequence of the neurobiological actions of the drug, and is not due to any other factor because it seems to be remarkably consistent between users.
Once again, I was simply speculating as psychedelic drugs tend to make one do. I don't even know if I believe in the collective unconcious per se, but I have an inkling that the concept of 'conciousness' is not restrained to matter; a common effect of smoking salvia is feeling like someone else or something else; suggesting that whatever conciousness IS maybe be apparent in all matter. Salvia changes the frequency of our reality-oscillator and suddenly the conciousness of a window is in ours.
Maybe salvia doesn't literally take you to another dimension, but enables you to perceive more dimensions than the 4 you can perceive while sober. That's certainly been my experience. This alone would explain a lot of the mindfuck/dissociation, because your brain is not optimally wired for this, so naturally there would be information overload.
In general, I'm not a big fan of explanations of psychedelic action that posit causal influences of the drugs on anything external to the individual's mind/brain. IMO they alter the function of your mind rather than taking you to a literal, specific place like the collective unconscious or another dimension. What you do with the altered mental function induced by psychedelics is another matter entirely. Essentially what I'm saying is that you can take yourself to a lot of places but it involves more than just getting high on psychedelics.
Well, its seems likely that matter is not transported to other dimesnions, as watching people smoke salvia- they remain in view. But, I also don't think that 'other dimensions' are external anyway; nothing has yet proved that THIS consensus relaity is external, so why would any other type?
IMO they alter the function of your mind rather than taking you to a literal, specific place like the collective unconscious or another dimension
As our mind is what keeps us anchored in this dimension, does it even matter if the effects were 'material' or not? ALL experience is a function of the mind- I think saying things like the 'collective unconcious' or 'another dimension' are more metaphors describing places in our own heads.
If you are PERCEIVING other dimensions through a change in neural functioning, which is essentailly what happens in the day-to-day perception of 'normal reality', then saying you've travelled to another dimension or experienced it doesn't make much difference, I think.
Essentially what I'm saying is that you can take yourself to a lot of places but it involves more than just getting high on psychedelics
Of course. It does seem though, that a high dose of salvia will induce specific effects- I relate the salvia smoking to the effects strangely
IME, the salvia headspace- not the utter craziness space- but the calm expanded interior mind reminds me of meditating more then anything; no wait, meditating reminds of salvia. And so on.
Ultimately, salvia just leaves me with a million questions.
