Nootropics The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread (Stack 2)

[psy997]

Interesting, cool. I've got Adamax (semax with an adamantane moiety, most potent version of it), NA Selank Amidate, and Noopept (though not so exciting, I've done a lot of Noopept) coming.

 

[Xorkoth]

I like noopept a lot, I've gotta get some more soon. I quite like piracetam too actually, but it's very subtle, noopept is much more noticeable.

I've generally heard that selank is superior to semax, but I never tried it.

 

[psy997]

Yea I got piracetam for the first time a year or year and a half back, took it for a while, had effects, but nothing too noticeable. Noopept is fantastic, however. After my first long cycle with it in 2012-2013 my reflexes significantly improved, as did my articulation - though that one didn't last so long after the fact as the increased reflexes.

Semax and Selank are pretty different from what I've read, so more of an apples and oranges type thing then most nootropics. Selank is mostly for anxiety, stress, and reduction + increased coping with both - not so much a nootropic in the sense of cognitive enhancement, whereas Semax is more of a classic nootropic, indicated primarily for cognitive impairment and the like.

I'm really excited for both. I've read numerous reports of one or two cycles of Selank knocking out people's generalized and/or social anxiety for good. And reports of Adamax specifically being a motivational and cognitive godsend and a massive help for dissertation writing - something I'm doing right now. And the Adamax is so potent, the 10mg I got should last me quite a while.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah those advanced peptides are mega-potent. Interesting about selank, I have had quite a lot of anxiety lately from a combination of tons of real-life stress (from circumstances that will pass but are hard to deal with) and residual destabilization of my GABA system from GHB a year and a half ago plus phenibut/gabapentin/benzos to come off. I'm not dependent anymore but I haven't felt back to normal in terms of anxiety since.

 

[swilow]

I like noopept a lot, I've gotta get some more soon. I quite like piracetam too actually, but it's very subtle, noopept is much more noticeable.

I get really mixed results from noopept. It has actually induced a bit of weird restlessness and mild agitation, I'm not sure I especially like it. Though I find it helps with crosswords! (My go-to test for nootropics)

Have you tried phenylpiracetam? That is a genuine stimulant, albeit mildish. It's stronger than caffeine (and synergises really well with it) and actually similar to modafinil in terms of stimulation. Doesn't last as long though and tolerance builds rapidly (and maybe absolutely too). I've found a decent nootropic stack to be 150mg of armodafinil in the morning and then 300mg alpha gpc/200mg phenylpiracetam at lunchtime- gives me a sort of day long sense of good cheer without being at all intoxicating or with any side effects besides sweating. A bit of anziety towards bedtime though it doesnt effect my sleeping. Though I have found that i am very tolerant to both armodafinil and phenylpiracetam now so need a break I guess.

Nootropics seem like drugs to do when you don't wanna do drugs. For me, it feeds into pretty much the same mental construct that a dedicated drug habit creates so I'm not sold on how wise it is to keep doing this. I can consider doing dexamphetamine or phenylpiracetam with similar kinds of motivation, nootropics seem to mainly work as most drugs do by changing one's emotional relationship to the present. Making one feel emotionally better than before. The purported effects of memory and whatnot are probably side effects of a positive lift in mood more than anything significantly neurological. Phenylpiracetam seems to effect dopamine just as most moodlifting drugs do and I'd say that is the primary reason we think these things work.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yes, I found phenylpiracetam about the same as you describe. Actually legitimately stimulating, but still rather subtle. I actually feel the same way about noopept except noopept is less stimulating, but more nootropic. It very noticeably improves my word recall, multitasking ability, quickness of thought, and also improves my mood almost every time, a little bit. However by the end of a small tub, with daily use I get diminishing returns and it seems to produce the opposite effect.

The best nootropic I've ever done was hydergine (ergoloid mesylates). Did all the stuff traditional nootropics do, with a substantial mood boost and brightening of colors. Felt like low dose LSD with LSD microdose nootropic effects. Super sobriety.

Nootropics seem like drugs to do when you don't wanna do drugs. For me, it feeds into pretty much the same mental construct that a dedicated drug habit creates so I'm not sold on how wise it is to keep doing this.

I can totally relate to this, I agree. It get a brief kick out of ingesting a nootropic (or any supplement including a multivitamin). However I do notice real benefits from periodic cycles of nootropics. I don't use them all the time, I will run out of whichever one I'm on (piracetam at the moment, almost out) and then stop for a while. But yeah it activates the same reward pathway which is kinda weird since the drug doesn't produce the same sort of reward.

I did order some selank a bit ago. Gonna give it a shot. If it helps me get through a difficult time, then good. I refuse to rely on addictive drugs to get me through something except for, say, a single benzo dose for intense insomnia or panic attack or something.

 

[swilow]

For me, I'm almost using nootropics to sort of scale down this tendency to really readily fall into addictive patterns... There is some logic if you think about ideas such as conditioning; performing the same kind of actions- seeking/buying/ingesting/experiencing drugs but with less biochemical reward than if you use something really powerful like amphetamines or opiates, the brain may stop associating those behaviours with the intense rewards. For me, the behavioral part of a drug habit is the hardest to counter because it's so preconscious and automatic so altering the outcome of the behaviour might feed back into it and help me forget it. I can overcome urges to take drugs okay for the most part but it's still unsettling to think about getting high- or really just getting altered- all the time. ?

I sound like a mad scientist there, of course the brain is more complex than that

 

[Xorkoth]

For me, I'm almost using nootropics to sort of scale down this tendency to really readily fall into addictive patterns... There is some logic if you think about ideas such as conditioning

I do this too, with L-theanine (which actually produces some effect), nootropics, and caffeine (which I'm alright with dosing sometimes to satisfy a craving for "something"). I have had a lot of drug abuse issues the past couple of years in an attempt to medicate really intense anxiety/anger from various external issues and I have found that, although I don't touch opiates, or GHB anymore, a lot of the healthy patterns established with ibogaine have gone by the wayside.

Being able to go back to the gym after I buy a car and get my license back will really help, I notice that when I am working out hard every day (or even like 3 times a week), I get a lot drug cravings and I like sobriety a lot more.

 

[psy997]

so I'm not sold on how wise it is to keep doing this. I can consider doing dexamphetamine or phenylpiracetam with similar kinds of motivation, nootropics seem to mainly work as most drugs do by changing one's emotional relationship to the present. Making one feel emotionally better than before. The purported effects of memory and whatnot are probably side effects of a positive lift in mood more than anything significantly neurological. Phenylpiracetam seems to effect dopamine just as most moodlifting drugs do and I'd say that is the primary reason we think these things work.

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[cryptix420]

Yeah those advanced peptides are mega-potent. Interesting about selank, I have had quite a lot of anxiety lately from a combination of tons of real-life stress (from circumstances that will pass but are hard to deal with) and residual destabilization of my GABA system from GHB a year and a half ago plus phenibut/gabapentin/benzos to come off. I'm not dependent anymore but I haven't felt back to normal in terms of anxiety since.

Have you considered taking some collagen protein regularly?

 

[Xorkoth]

I can't say that I ever have. What is that supposed to do?

 

[psy997]

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[Vastness]

I really did like both NA-Semax-Amidate and NA-Selank-Amidate, but haven't got either of them since a certain nootropics vendor renowned for rigorous standards of quality control permanently closed up shop. I just don't trust any peptide vendors around right now. Probably plain old Semax and Selank are still available given that they're manufactured by the Russian pharmaceutical industry, but anything more novel and complex than that I would be very, very wary of. It's supposedly just very very difficult to properly synthesise a lot of these compounds and equally hard or even harder to properly exercise any quality control.

There's zero accountability in the industry, almost no-one is getting these compounds tested and there are about as many labs capable of properly purity testing them as there are capable of properly manufacturing them in the first place - which is to say, very very few, and those that do exist, their services are not cheap. There's just no financial incentive to offer high purity or genuine compounds, and no-one is checking anyway so there are no repercussions for doing the opposite. Basically unless you're paying for a custom synthesis from a well respected company specialising in such complex syntheses, your chances of getting the genuine article, in my estimation, are low.

This apparently unchecked proliferation of shady operators isn't unique to the nootropics industry either, it's been happening with physically performance enhancing peptides targeted at the bodybuilding scene for years, where just as many or even more people routinely inject peptides of unverified and often effectively unverifiable origin and purity.

The Khavinson bioregulator peptides induce permanent changes in the brain and body!

Perplexed by Peptides?

Bioregulatory Peptides are a novel class of medicine that hack our biology on the genetic level.

medium.com

This is also highly suspect. Basically none of Khavinson's research has been replicated outside of his own institute. There seem to be quite a range of peptides out of this institution which allegedly have been used to treat diseases with no other accepted treatment within Western medicine. Indeed, some of them would be almost miracle compounds were their ability to apparently reverse the progression of otherwise incurable genetic diseases to be believed, but even the research itself is highly suspect if you take the time to look through a few of the papers, the methodology and the reaching conclusions. Indeed, basically none of the original research has even been repeated within Russia since it was originally performed!

This is perhaps forgivable by just coming from a less scientifically rigorous time and, perhaps, some bias and optimism on the part of the researchers - but in the modern day these peptides are marketed largely to Westerners at obscenely inflated prices. I've yet to hear even anecdotal reports of anyone who actually had such a condition that was untreatable by Western medicine actually getting positive results from any of these peptides. Far more often it's the case that people without any specific condition are using them as "preventatives", or to treat some other fairly vague malady, for which they might report positive results, but really doesn't add anything to their credibility, or the credibility of Khavinson himself.

Epitalon I will concede is fairly interesting, and I have used it myself, maybe there is some benefit, but this is also the only one that (to my knowledge) there aren't any truly fantastical claims about the conditions it can supposedly treat, only that it might potentially slow ageing, which is itself hard to verify of course but also suggests a vague enough range of benefits and mechanism of action that are not entirely unbelievable.

I've found a decent nootropic stack to be 150mg of armodafinil in the morning and then 300mg alpha gpc/200mg phenylpiracetam at lunchtime- gives me a sort of day long sense of good cheer without being at all intoxicating or with any side effects besides sweating. A bit of anziety towards bedtime though it doesnt effect my sleeping.

This to me would be very overstimulating! Armodafinil I find to generally last all day almost at that dose... although towards the end of the day recently I find myself getting a kind of cognitive fatigue, where I'm still "awake" but no longer with the drive to actually apply this energy in any kind of focused way... I guess that loss of the "drive" factor is very similar to what people report from overuse of amphetamines, etc, I really identify also with the other stuff you say about nootropics. For me also one thing I like about nootropics is that they're drugs that I can do often...

 

[cryptix420]

I can't say that I ever have. What is that supposed to do?

Im mentioning it because of the very high glycine content of collagen protein. Glycine and GABA are the two primary inhibitor neurotransmitters. I encourage you to read about it.

There's plenty of other reasons collagen is a good idea for anyone, especially people who have overdone drugs. Vital proteins and bulletproof both are good but the thing is just to make sure it's hydrolyzed and pasture raised.

I often take it later in the day and have excellent sleep nearly all the time.

 

[psy997]

Vastness, there are a few very high quality vendors of peptides around right now, one of which has NA Selank, NA Selank Amidate, NA Semax, and NA Semax Amidate. And now, Adamax even. They're just as high quality as C was.

 

[Vastness]

Well, I hope that you're right, I just haven't seen any evidence of it myself, and plenty of evidence for the opposite... but I would love if that was the case, perhaps I've been looking in the wrong places.

 

[swilow]

It's a good argument FOR regulation when you hear of noopept adulterated with PMA. Can't testify to the veracity of that claim though...

Anyone tried bromantane? I got some today, pretty hesitant given the speculation about Alzheimer's... But it sounds nice, an adaptogen with stimulant and anxiolytic properties. Anyone with experience with this compound?

 

[Vastness]

^ For sure, that's what we all want for all substances though right? Safe, legal regulation, where regulation means an emphasis on safety and properly quality control rather than what passes for "regulation" in today's world, ie, ban ban ban, demonise, imprison...

I tried Bromantane and honestly was very underwhelmed, it sounded good to me too but I can't say I felt anything really beyond placebo. Who knows though, maybe I had a bad batch or something...

 

[swilow]

^Did you only try it a few times? I read that it seems to work best when used over a week or so.

Another problem with a deregulated market is that we can't really know if what we receive is actually what we intended to buy. With most drugs, I guess a bad batch could mean anything from toxic to something else entirely. It's a worry that we are even considering bad batches of these chemicals...

For sure, that's what we all want for all substances though right? Safe, legal regulation, where regulation means an emphasis on safety and properly quality control rather than what passes for "regulation" in today's world, ie, ban ban ban, demonise, imprison...

Absolutely- the right sort of regulation, backed and maintained by science and science only- is what we desperately need. ?

Anyway, noopept seems to have a stronger and less jittery effect when combined with armodafinil- I wonder if bromantane would work similarly...

I'm actually quite wary of armodafinil, I've been taking it everyday for a while- when I delay taking it, I really only feel way more sleepy but I'm not sure how any dopaminergic drug could be non habitforming as these are claimed to be. I have a few days off soon so will see how it goes.

 

[Vastness]

IIRC, I used it for maybe a week at most.. perhaps only a few days... I think I was spooked by some of the stuff I also read about possible induction of Alzheimer's-esque brain-plaques so elected not to continue on that basis as I do also have one copy of the APOE4 genes associated with a marginally increased risk of developing Alzheimer's in later life. Probably way too little data to make any real conclusions but what's the point in even finding out this stuff if you're not going to at least try to make use of it, I figure.

I take armodafinil often also, have taken it almost daily at times. For me also it feels very dopaminergic - and when I quit, I do feel less motivated, more sluggish, lazy, etc, all the typical symptoms I'd expect from rebounding from frequent use of a dopaminergic substance. Something I've found a few times though when I have taken longer breaks is that despite these initial feelings, I do get back as close as I can tell to baseline within a week or so, even after several months of using armodafinil almost daily - definitely a shorter time than I would expect after almost-daily use of a "harder" dopaminergic anyway (although I haven't actually used any such "harder" substances on anything close to a daily basis, so, who knows).