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Lysergamides The Big & Dandy Non-LSD Ergoloids Blotter Thread

Are you actually proposing that as soon as a chemist is able to make LSD and does just that, that they are recruited into some underground organization that are conspiring into tricking people that they are taking LSD, when they are infact taking another ergaloid? Or maybe that once a chemist can and does make LSD they are shot and disposed of before they can sell their product?

Come on this is silly.
 
Are you actually proposing that as soon as a chemist is able to make LSD and does just that, that they are recruited into some underground organization that are conspiring into tricking people that they are taking LSD, when they are infact taking another ergaloid? Or maybe that once a chemist can and does make LSD they are shot and disposed of before they can sell their product?

Come on this is silly.

Who is proposing that?

All that is known is that these non-LSD ergoloids circulate, and, presumably, there is an organized effort to produce and distribute them, but the rest of the above is indeed silly. There is plenty of real LSD circulating, but also there is at least one group of people putting this other stuff out. Anything else is paranoid speculation (which psychedelics are wont to produce in some people 8) ...)
 
Well, "bunk" this stuff isn't, exactly. It's a viable product that people will pay for, and do, so the distributors are perfectly happy, I'd imagine.

Maybe SKL but I still think it's got to be a pretty small part of the LSD market. I could make "cocaine" with a bottle of talcum powder and caffiene tablets but the problem would be getting anyone to pay me 40 grand a key for it. Presumably if someone is paying for LSD then they go to someone who can make LSD.

But I suppose someone somewhere would pay for something that sort of resembled LSD - as long as it was at an absolute drop down price.
 
I think you give the consumer too much credit, or the analogue not enough; this stuff is very similar to LSD, to the point that I think most people couldn't tell in a blind taste test. The truth of the matter is: this stuff has been around for years and widely speculated on. Now, we have GC/MS that proves that at least one analogue has circulated fairly widely on paper. How widely is anyone's guess, and I would agree that the majority of LSD in circulation is in fact LSD, but the blotters that weren't were quite widely distributed in certain circles.
 
Interesting thread... thanks for telling :)

for the record: I'm in europe, i have consumed lsd quite a few times in the past year... mostly liquid (3 different sources in 2 countries), some blotter, hofmann and others (also 2 different countries) and soon will try a microdot... so far i'm 100% confident that basically all of this was real LSD...

can't say too much about the one time i had a hofmann blotter as i already consumed 27mg 2ci and some shrooms before taking the blotter, but it also felt very much like lsd...

but all in all it's really a decadent problem to have... as long as i have the electric taste and the organic feel after 15 mins and meet the great eye at the peak i'll be a happy little Rainbowwarrior :)

edit: btw In the Netherlands as well as in Spain it's possible to get blotters tested and i have not heard from a single blotter that was reported to be a LS?, i'll write an email at energy control wether they ever found some analogues of lsd on blotter... will also include the GC sheet to see what they have to say about it...
 
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I think you give the consumer too much credit, or the analogue not enough; this stuff is very similar to LSD, to the point that I think most people couldn't tell in a blind taste test. The truth of the matter is: this stuff has been around for years and widely speculated on. Now, we have GC/MS that proves that at least one analogue has circulated fairly widely on paper. How widely is anyone's guess, and I would agree that the majority of LSD in circulation is in fact LSD, but the blotters that weren't were quite widely distributed in certain circles.

(not directed at SLK, just adding on) I don't think many people would have a problem with the fact that they received some other ergoline instead of LSD. I doubt I could find anyone I know who's tried LSD and enjoys tripping, who wouldn't mind trying a similar compound, especially with the prospect of less potential for anxiety + intense visuals in relation to intensity of experience.

I don't see how putting another ergoline with similar subjective effects would be an issue of anyone in the chain of supply. Its not like DOx where the effects are clearly off from LSD or there is a potential to trip for 12+ hour.
 
I don't see how putting another ergoline with similar subjective effects would be an issue of anyone in the chain of supply.

I dunno. I think the problem comes higher up the supply chain rather than some kid on the street. If the Triads are paying someone 10 million for LSD and you give them something that isn't LSD I think you're going to have a few problems. All they have to do is get an LSD testing kit and you're fucking dead.

To be honest you'd think people would be selling alternatives to LSD as straight "alternatives to LSD". No need to try and pass them off as LSD is there? You could probably sell them at a higher price than acid by saying "It's better than LSD dude". I'd buy alternatives to LSD just to check them out.
 
I dunno. I think the problem comes higher up the supply chain rather than some kid on the street. If the Triads are paying someone 10 million for LSD and you give them something that isn't LSD I think you're going to have a few problems. All they have to do is get an LSD testing kit and you're fucking dead.

To be honest you'd think people would be selling alternatives to LSD as straight "alternatives to LSD". No need to try and pass them off as LSD is there? You could probably sell them at a higher price than acid by saying "It's better than LSD dude". I'd buy alternatives to LSD just to check them out.

Well, first of all, if by "LSD testing kit," you mean Ehrlich's reagent, any ergoloid will pass.

Second, triads? LOL. But really, regardless of who the traffickers are, all that they really care about is that the product sells, and this product definitely sells.

You're right, I wish that people would sell this stuff as what it is (there's even ready made cutesy acronyms that rhyme with the real thing! LSP, and LSB!), but it's probably easier just to pass it off as "acid," a product which sells itself, rather than something that would require an explanation to your customers.

The situation is a little less dire than the one with "Ecstasy pills," which, bought on the open market, could contain just about anything, but sort of recalls the pressed E pill market of many years ago ... Most of it is what it is purported to be, but a certain percentage of blotters on the market now need to be thought of as "LS?" the way we think of "MDxx" (MDMA/MDA/MDE/MDEA/etc.) as a family of closely related but not exactly interchangeable drugs ... or, occasionally, something totally unrelates (DOx, 5-MeO-AMT, etc.)
 
i've had uninformed dealers tell me that my chosen standard of blotters have been something that is not LSD all along, he claimed "LSA" which scientifically just does not pan out, but i'm not sure why he would suppose that...

from the consumers point of view there is no real way to tell what is in our drugs, which is sad i've found that the suppliers are usually incorrect as well or lying and the only speculation is usually scientifically flawed.

We just DON'T know... when people on the streets think that anything that makes one hallucinate is called "ACID" I act to inform them but usually their pseudoscience magical thinking is to stubborn to budge.
 
The idea of "different kinds of L" is popularly held by a lot of users and even dealers, who may be more correct than they know even if the specific terms they use ("crystal lines," "LSA," "ALD-52") may be b.s.
 
LSD and triads?... lol

watch less movies and spend more time in "reality" :D

Try and think "sense of humour" when you read my posts. I'm not always being entirely serious. The point still stands that when you pay 10 million for LSD you are expecting LSD.
 
Second, triads? LOL. But really, regardless of who the traffickers are, all that they really care about is that the product sells, and this product definitely sells.

Perhaps the triads have a testing hippy they give it to?

I'd be interested in why they'd be trying to "pass it off" as LSD tho. If I had something just like LSD that only lasted as long as mushrooms I wouldn't be trying to "pass it off" as something as cheap as LSD. Pretty much everyone I know would pay two or three times as much for it than they would for LSD. In fact you'd think it would take over the market pretty much overnight as the profits you'd make would be staggering.
 
^^^ Dunno bout that. Brand recognition plays a huge role, LSD has a market much bigger than psychedelic drug afficionados, and LSD means something to the layman, LSx does not.

That said, I still think 99% of the ergoloids being sold as LSD are in fact, LSD.
 
Who is proposing that?

All that is known is that these non-LSD ergoloids circulate, and, presumably, there is an organized effort to produce and distribute them, but the rest of the above is indeed silly. There is plenty of real LSD circulating, but also there is at least one group of people putting this other stuff out. Anything else is paranoid speculation (which psychedelics are wont to produce in some people 8) ...)

So this whole thread is about the possibility that there could be non-LSD ergoloids on a small percentage of "LSD" blotters..

Then yes.. there is a possibility. 8) Is there something I'm not getting? Sorry i've just woken up ;)
 
So this whole thread is about the possibility that there could be non-LSD ergoloids on a small percentage of "LSD" blotters..

Then yes.. there is a possibility. 8) Is there something I'm not getting? Sorry i've just woken up ;)

Well at least part of this thread is about at least one large blotter lay/print that there was apparently a whole lot of going around at one point with conclusively documented non-LSD ergoloids being blatantly misrepresented as LSD. Well maybe "conspiracy" is not such a bad word after all.

And I can see it happening without anyone ending up on a meathook. Cook tells "Triad":

You know, for X% less I can make you something very clean, so close no one will be sure its any different, end users will love, and will test positive on ergoloid test kits. What do you think?​

"Triad" says:

Hmmm, that means we make X% more... the test hippies do so much in a fingerprint they cant tell their ass from a hole in the ground, no one we ever sold to has bothered with the time and expense of a gc/ms since it cut into their take, what the heck lets give it a shot and see if we can pull the wool over their eyes​
 
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Then again, I guess there's the argument that if the molecule can fulfill the requirements of the job listing, makes users happy and gives them a good clean trip, then what's the problem with giving it the job? Kinda like "Is it live or is it Memorex?" Does it really matter if the glass still breaks the right way?

"Fascinating, Captain."

http://www.impactlab.net/2009/05/11/is-obama-the-present-day-mr-spock/
obama-mr-spock.jpg
 
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Another cross-post from esotericPharma.org

This is part of a rough draft of what will become a longer article about this subject with several authors contributing.


There is a bit of incredulity when people hear all of this, which is understandable, partly because we all grew up hearing the same song and dance: nothing else fits on blotters, it's all just differences in set and setting, and partly because there have been so many instances where similar claims are made by people who do not really know what they are talking about as wild speculation without evidence, or simply as part of various LSD-related urban legends (which there are so many of ... because LSD's psychopharmacological action, essentially, is to touch the parts of our consciousness that scream "this is an incredibly significant experience!" Salience receptors, we could call them! And consequentially, mythopoesis is built into LSD's pharmacology ... but I digress) ... this here is none of the above. The existence of these n-alkyl lysergic acid amides other than LSD on blotter papers which saw significant commercial distribution is a documented fact backed up by years of subjective experiences of people who thought there was something "not quite right" about the LS"D" coming from certain sources ... some of this was questionable and more likely the result of set and setting or placebo effect, some of it was sour grapes from people with a financial interest in perpetuating these perceptions, some of it was patriotic sentimentality (American LSD is best!) ... and it turns out some of it was true. This is really happening, and has been for some years. Now we have documented proof and a pair of very likely candidates for the molecule in question, and, for those in the known able to read between the lines, a convincing argument for why all of this went down like it did.

With regards to the latter -- some people might be inclined to moral outrage because in some sense a fraud was perpetrated here, but I am less inclined to moral outrage than I am to awe with the chemical and pharmacological genius behind this particular project. We can deconstruct the above GC/MS results and develop a theory as to why these particular compounds were chosen, and it is a very interesting "why." Someone clearly put a lot of time and effort into this, and likely not as a one-off experiment in the development of a novelty for novelty's sake (as in the case of a lot of the small-scale circulation of some of the more esoteric research chemicals.) Why put in all of this effort? The answer, of course, lies in the chemical processes involved. These compounds appeared in the literature without much fanfare and without any mention of being tested in man, but with some data as to their neuropharmacological profiles, which very closely resemble LSD, as do the responses of animals ... and, it turns out, the responses of trippers. The compounds in question fit two criteria: first, they are probably as close to the real thing as can be had, and second, answering the question of "why go to the trouble," they are able to be synthesized in a manner which deals with much less attention-drawing precursors, thus making life easier and safer for the chemists. In certain jurisdictions, the process might not actually be illegal at all.

And, it turns out, these compounds might just make life easier and safer for trippers as well. Going on subjective data and on the available receptor binding data, it is possible that the "LS?" drugs are shorter acting, less anxiogenic, and possess less so-called "behavioral toxicity" and potential for untoward psychological outcomes, while still replicating to a large extent the LSD experience or, perhaps as we have to call it now, the "psychedelic ergoloid" experience. The opposite side of this coin, of course, is that those with particularly discriminating taste in drugs may find that "something is missing" taking the non-diethylamide n-alkylated LAA's. The "something" often being characterized as "depth" or "spirituality." (It is interesting that the loss of this is paired to the loss of some of the more unpleasant, anxiogenic/psychotomimetic aspects). I, too, would say that although consuming these drugs is no longer a part of my life, I, subjectively speaking, thought the experiences that I had with the diethylamide were superior to the "other" lysergamides that I have encountered. However, apart from a general feeling of very minor subjective differences in the overall Gestalt of the experience, the drugs are virtually identical and I repeat my doubts that most end-users would be able to tell the difference in a blind taste test.

To recap: most of the customer base either does not care or, a case could be made, might very well prefer the more novel compounds. Those involved with production and distribution are less exposed to risk and probably increased profitability (although it is worth noting the product is slightly less potent per unit weight). The negative impact on anyone is minimal, so, while some people's initial response to this might be that it is scandalous and an occasion for moral outrage due to concerns about truth and advertising, the truth is that from a chemical, pharmacological, counterforensic, and economic perspective, somebody somewhere pulled a brilliant coup, and did so very quietly.

Ethically speaking, of course, it's in a bit of a gray area. We all would love to be able to know exactly what we are getting in this market, but unfortunately due to the social, economic, political, and legal realities surrounding this particular market, it's not always possible. But, I submit, putting these compounds is not the same as putting something like DOB or 5-MeO-AMT on blotter, nor is it like selling piped out rolls, fentadope, levamisole-laced cocaine, or any of the other myriad scandals regarding misbranded drugs that have come out over the years. 4-AcO-DMT "mushroom chocolates" do sort of come to mind, though, as a rough analogy to what is going down here. Nonetheless, when the pieces of this puzzle became apparent to a number of people last year, it was my feeling that the information had ought to become public, as it gradually has, although some parts of us wondered whether this carefully kept secret had ought to be exposed. But the principle wins out that informed consumers should be able to know what they are putting into their bodies, if only for curiosity's sake (as I do not see any real safety concerns with this particular substitution, unlike, say, some of the stuff that shows up in, inter alia, "E" pills, heroin, cocaine, and ketamine).

Regardless of what does or does not become public knowledge, however, I imagine that the production and circulation of these compounds will continue unabated and that they will have a certain market share going into the future. The vast majority of those consuming the compounds will neither know no care and, blissfully unaware, will continue to believe wholeheartedly that they are "tripping on LSD," and, for all intents and purposes, they essentially are ... well, at least, they are tripping on the L and the S, and a very close approximation of the "D" (and to be flippant about it, "B" and "P" even rhyme with "D!") We're talking about misrepresentation of drugs, but, to a degree, we're talking about a white lie. The white lie has been believed uncritically for a while, and those who thought differently were even looked at on occasion as foolish for believing that "something else" was circulated as LSD. Now we know different. The question is, what do we do with this knowledge? And, as is always worth asking, does it even matter? This stuff is out there. There is some indeterminable but significant likelihood that many of you have taken it, without even knowing. And, by most reports, the experience is not a bad one. These new ergoloids are actually pretty interesting and cool drugs, and pretty close, subjectively and pharmacologically, to the original.
 
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Great writing, very thoughtful. A little more research into how it all REALLY went down and I think you have an entire book here!
 
This is a re-post from another forum. This topic is on many peoples minds and there are those who wish to hide this information and attack anyone that speaks about this theory.



I tried them and indeed they were strong, didnt notice the effects wearing off faster tahn usual. but since you guys were at a festival i presume you took acid more than 1time?


Also at boom festival there is a tent where you can can test your drugs, and almost everything sold as lsd was ineed lsd.

Tolerance is a bitch...
 
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