The Big & Dandy Natural Psychotropics and Ethnobotanics Thread

[Neuroborean]

Hey man,

I’ll respond more later (and if not remind me please) but this is mostly news to me. This research analyzing the products of fermentation is just plain awesome!

The only genus name that really sticks out is Delosperma, which I actually have an old extract I made from D. cooperi (sp?) which was supposed to possibly have 5-MeO-DMT. I’ve yet to try it but it’s been in my possession since 2017.

Maybe this is the trick to make Kanna work well?

-GC

I see that APTENIA grows pretty close to my home, an incredibly big patch of it...
I will get a lot of it, and try to extract it some way.

It seems that's very difficult to find good sources of good kanna, specially good fermented kanna (it's traditionally fermented). As most of the material is old of weak, people grow it themselves or they get extracts from good vendors, the subreddit about kanna has good info about everything...

I guess that a lot of plants may work differently and change the amount of alkaloids and alkaloid ratio when fermented... the case of kratom or tea are paradigmatic, to be honest for me yellow kratom it's the most useful for mental tasks, instant moodlift and focus, without other stuff. Yeah, the fermented "yellow", it smells super nice too.

I'll try to get some pleiospilos and Delosperma
those delosperma seems to have a lot of stuff, tryptamines...mesembrine type... but it's not well documented, it's a super interesting specie to research...
I've just read that the DMT content increases in winter and the 5-MEO-DMT content increases in summer... seems pretty amazing.

I'm so tired, it's almost 3AM here, so need to sleep asap.. soon I'll come up with some info about this stuff, if I have enough time.

 

[Neuroborean]

Hey man,

I’ll respond more later (and if not remind me please) but this is mostly news to me. This research analyzing the products of fermentation is just plain awesome!

The only genus name that really sticks out is Delosperma, which I actually have an old extract I made from D. cooperi (sp?) which was supposed to possibly have 5-MeO-DMT. I’ve yet to try it but it’s been in my possession since 2017.

Maybe this is the trick to make Kanna work well?

-GC

hey man
just bio-assayed some Delosperma cooperi/bosseranum right now,
I'm also on kratom and huperzine A, but well... perhaps not the best day or moment to bioassay anything
but I can mostly sure say that half-dried (a week and half old cuttings) Delosperma quid seems
effective, active

It can be placebo? oh well, it could be, I will perform more experiments to be exactly sure, but I got that typical mesembrine signature of warm and mongyness... and some lil tryptamine headspace background.

so I guess I need to check this again and also extract it. I think this plant has some potential.

 

[gordonliddy]

This thread was a fun read.

I was thinking about going for a St. John's Wort experience tomorrow. I feel like doing a large dose.

What's a large dose? I used to use daily but stopped when a relative warned me it was bad for the liver.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Humph. I never found store bought Sceletium too psychoactive, but a little. However, when I grew the plant it seemed to not work at all. I tried "fermenting" it although there were no real directions on what that meant at the time. I tried and tried and gave up. Complicated by the low psychoactivity of even store bought stuff.

 

[Neuroborean]

Humph. I never found store bought Sceletium too psychoactive, but a little. However, when I grew the plant it seemed to not work at all. I tried "fermenting" it although there were no real directions on what that meant at the time. I tried and tried and gave up. Complicated by the low psychoactivity of even store bought stuff.

redditors seem to praise a couple brands/companies only, and the mostly use it in extract form, rarely in plant powder form, as most of it it's too weak.
I've tried only the fermented plant powder and it worked and it was kinda potent (it has a rush, no doubt) but it only works if it's really fresh and you do it consistenly, for whatever reason. In anycase it seems to me that in this forum a lot of people say that this or that plant are not "active" but normally in the internet people say it's pretty active, so I guess here people consume very strong/hard drugs quite often so they are just used to those strong, forced, feelings, and they just expect "too much" from natural products...

I did already 2 trials with Delosperma Cooperii and I'm 90% sure it's not placebo, seems very dreamy, I consider it pretty interesting and now I'm growing it to get more and extract it. I thought that Cooperii and Bosseranum were synonims... they are not. Supposedly Bosseranum it's the one which is more similar to kanna, but more energetic, Cooperi seems to be more like a threshold tryptamine trip with dreaminess.

 

[Neuroborean]

I did a major discovery, I think @G_Chem it's going to be interested in this ....
I tried a type of Narcissus (Narcissus Triandrus) which is endemic to Iberian Peninsula, I tried it 3 times (what I usually do to avoid placebo judgements) in increasing doses...
To my surprise it's not only active BUT VERY ACTIVE, it's one of the few Narcissus that doesn't have Lycorine or Galantamine, it only has a strange alkaloid called Roserine (little amount, and it's not Rosavin or rosavin from R. Rosea), which has an interesting molecular structure... and the most it has is Sceletium type alkaloids, 3 of them non discovered before in nature.

I can tell you guys, this shit rocks, it's equal or stronger than Kanna (in effects, not in weight/potency) and it has some strange narcotic quality and euphoria quite different (but similar) to Kanna, it's very very serotoninergic and I think one of the 3 new compounds is stronger than mesembrenone/mesembrine, otherwise there's something unknown causing effects. I tried 12 grams of dried bulbs ORALLY (which normally it's super weak with sceletium-type alkaloids) and I got a serotoninergic Hyperslap, I even had nausea, like a big dose of kanna or 6-APB, I got dizzy and it was even overwhelming, but deeply pleasureable and interesting.
With kanna, specially orally/sublingually the effects and euphoria seems more based on the body/belly, in this cases it seems to affect more the middle and higher chakras (chest/head) more similar to real mdma. It was AMAZING and I have a lot of hope in this plant, I couldn't believe it yesterday

I feel like a pioneer and I'm super happy.

 

[Esperighanto]

I did a major discovery, I think @G_Chem it's going to be interested in this ....
I tried a type of Narcissus (Narcissus Triandrus) which is endemic to Iberian Peninsula, I tried it 3 times (what I usually do to avoid placebo judgements) in increasing doses...
To my surprise it's not only active BUT VERY ACTIVE, it's one of the few Narcissus that doesn't have Lycorine or Galantamine, it only has a strange alkaloid called Roserine (little amount, and it's not Rosavin or rosavin from R. Rosea), which has an interesting molecular structure... and the most it has is Sceletium type alkaloids, 3 of them non discovered before in nature.

I can tell you guys, this shit rocks, it's equal or stronger than Kanna (in effects, not in weight/potency) and it has some strange narcotic quality and euphoria quite different (but similar) to Kanna, it's very very serotoninergic and I think one of the 3 new compounds is stronger than mesembrenone/mesembrine, otherwise there's something unknown causing effects. I tried 12 grams of dried bulbs ORALLY (which normally it's super weak with sceletium-type alkaloids) and I got a serotoninergic Hyperslap, I even had nausea, like a big dose of kanna or 6-APB, I got dizzy and it was even overwhelming, but deeply pleasureable and interesting.
With kanna, specially orally/sublingually the effects and euphoria seems more based on the body/belly, in this cases it seems to affect more the middle and higher chakras (chest/head) more similar to real mdma. It was AMAZING and I have a lot of hope in this plant, I couldn't believe it yesterday

I feel like a pioneer and I'm super happy.

Roserine shares a silhouette with lysergic acid which is pretty neat. The nitrogens, double bonds, and a handful of other features don't align with it, but it's interesting that you came across a serotonergic plant. N. triandrus is neat, its taxonomy was coined by Linnaeus. In the structure of roserine too, I see mescaline almost perfectly outlined in the top, which is neat.

Would you consider it to have had empathogenic, psychedelic, and/or dissociative effects?

 

[Neuroborean]

Roserine shares a silhouette with lysergic acid which is pretty neat. The nitrogens, double bonds, and a handful of other features don't align with it, but it's interesting that you came across a serotonergic plant. N. triandrus is neat, its taxonomy was coined by Linnaeus. In the structure of roserine too, I see mescaline almost perfectly outlined in the top, which is neat.

Would you consider it to have had empathogenic, psychedelic, and/or dissociative effects?

Yep, the effects were surprisingly strong,
yesterday I tried taking it with an empty belly and it was a mistake, too much nausea so I didn't finish the 10 grams tea.... the first day was 12 grams just after dinner, minor nausea but I could enjoy the effects more for like 1-2 hours (1 hour very strong) and then a comedown for another 2 hours, very smooth. The Roserine molecular structure it's surely amazing and intriguing..., and there's also 3 other serotoninergic mesembrine-type alkaloids so this is pretty promising.
it's not exactly sedating but it has some "narcotic" undertone in the peak, but it also has some "nootropic" feeling that kanna rarely has, it's clearly empathogenic the same way kanna is but more earthy and more focused on the mind instead of the body (as I said, it's like it transforms thoughts, not only creates an emotional barrier from the belly, like kanna usually does). The peak seemed somewhat psychedelic, as my headspace was very different than baseline, but I still don't know if it was because of a lot of serotonin flowing...

 

[Esperighanto]

Yep, the effects were surprisingly strong,
yesterday I tried taking it with an empty belly and it was a mistake, too much nausea so I didn't finish the 10 grams tea.... the first day was 12 grams just after dinner, minor nausea but I could enjoy the effects more for like 1-2 hours (1 hour very strong) and then a comedown for another 2 hours, very smooth. The Roserine molecular structure it's surely amazing and intriguing..., and there's also 3 other serotoninergic mesembrine-type alkaloids so this is pretty promising.
it's not exactly sedating but it has some "narcotic" undertone in the peak, but it also has some "nootropic" feeling that kanna rarely has, it's clearly empathogenic the same way kanna is but more earthy and more focused on the mind instead of the body (as I said, it's like it transforms thoughts, not only creates an emotional barrier from the belly, like kanna usually does). The peak seemed somewhat psychedelic, as my headspace was very different than baseline, but I still don't know if it was because of a lot of serotonin flowing...

I'm familiar with the blurred border between pschedelia and the empathogen experience that you're referring to here. I appreciate the information you provided here a ton, fascinating to hear of a psychoactive daffodil in the first place!

Edit for those reading in the future: I'm not convinced that the psychoactivity is unrelated to lycorine, Sophocles referred to narcissus plants as the "Chaplet of hte infernal gods", it seems like narcisuss plants had an effect somewhere around LSA? Trance-ish cognitive states, hallucinations, stimulation, etc.
Regardless, please be careful if playing with these plants, we barely understand their metabolism, wild specimens are going to have unrecorded environmental cues that can skew whatever metabolics are understood currently at that. I'm suspicious that this is a danger acetylcholinesterase inhibitor to play with just based on the nearby compounds in its metabolism, but hey, ergot alkaloids can be both LSD, as well as what induces St. Anthony's Fire. I suppose it's just about finding the right ones. Still beware toying with these plants.

 

[Neuroborean]

I'm familiar with the blurred border between pschedelia and the empathogen experience that you're referring to here. I appreciate the information you provided here a ton, fascinating to hear of a psychoactive daffodil in the first place!

Edit for those reading in the future: I'm not convinced that the psychoactivity is unrelated to lycorine, Sophocles referred to narcissus plants as the "Chaplet of hte infernal gods", it seems like narcisuss plants had an effect somewhere around LSA? Trance-ish cognitive states, hallucinations, stimulation, etc.
Regardless, please be careful if playing with these plants, we barely understand their metabolism, wild specimens are going to have unrecorded environmental cues that can skew whatever metabolics are understood currently at that. I'm suspicious that this is a danger acetylcholinesterase inhibitor to play with just based on the nearby compounds in its metabolism, but hey, ergot alkaloids can be both LSD, as well as what induces St. Anthony's Fire. I suppose it's just about finding the right ones. Still beware toying with these plants.

I found this plant because I like to read some "new" publications about ethnobotany. I thought about working in RC industry years ago but I eventually thought this was going to be too complicated so in some sort of psychedelic breakthrough I aligned myself with ethnobotany, which I think it's closer to God (on which I believe). So then, I normally read papers, I found this daffodil and afaik all the papers that I read found NO lycorine or galantamine and they searched in places quite close to where I live atm so I didn't think it twice, perhaps it has some minor compound that resembles lycorine but it's far from being toxic as lycorine
It's true that the first day I took it I got a minor headache the day after and I strange feeling, but I feel MUCH worse if using DPH in -100mg doses for sleeping, so well... I doubt there's any serious toxicity, as increasing the doses didn't bring anything more than augmented nausea that seems at least partially serotoninergic in nature.
It's true that other daffodils are said to be hallucinogenic, when I was at the peak of the experience with 12 grams I thought that this shit was going to enter into a real trip, it was borderline trippy to the point I was so happy to find this power in this unknown plant...

 

[Pfafffed]

I regret that I couldn't help you bioassay this if I wanted. Not only do I experience basically no effects from mesembrine, I also generally have dysphoric reactions to non-5-HT2a (p)agonist serotonergics.

 

[Neuroborean]

I regret that I couldn't help you bioassay this if I wanted. Not only do I experience basically no effects from mesembrine, I also generally have dysphoric reactions to non-5-HT2a (p)agonist serotonergics.

I think a good extraction would be interesting to test the waters to its real potential, I think it's strange that it works quite well oral, as mesembrine/mesembrenone are quite weak with this ROA so IMO: the minor components have a strong effect orally, OR they support/enhance mesembrine/mesembrenone psychoactivity OR it has very high amounts of mesembrenone/mesembrine, almost as much as Kanna.
I think the first hypothesis it's more likely to be than the other 2 but I have no idea, so it's just a guess.
yesterday was a bit disturbing, it's not a good idea to take it without something in your belly, similar to kratom for me, if I get nausea from kratom (rarely, due to tolerance) if I eat something the nausea goes away, so this was similar.
I will try to pick a lot next year, if you are in Europe I could send you some.