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The Big & Dandy Dangerous Combinations Thread

Folley said:
That's not at all what I was saying. And NO, SSRIs are NOT safe with MDMA. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD NOW. I've personally seen many people on BL who have reported Serotonin Syndrome from this combination. The SSRIs block the release of serotonin, which is what MDMA does

and MDMA and Tramadol is still a dangerous combination, as I have shown. Again, I also have personally heard of people who have had serious, life threatening reactions to the combination.
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ssri's block the effects of mdma as mdma is very selective for a particular serotonin recepetor that most ssri's target and they have greater affinity than mdma.

basically ssri's and mdma lead to reduced effects of mdma (it might not work at all)

also ssri's prevent the reuptake of serotonin

mdma causes serotonin release and reverses the serotonin transporter flooding the synapse with serotonin. essentially you dont have a clue how these drugs work other than the word serotonin.

if one drug with a higher affinity (binds to the receptor more powerfully) blocks the releaser (mdma) from working the net effect is a dulled mdma experience
 
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If someone were to take like 100mg of MDMA on SSRIs, they would be fine. But if they kept dropping pills because they think it's just weak and eat up a half gram, then Serotonin Syndrome is a much more serious risk.


Again, either way, the two should not be combined, so the interaction should be listed.
 
I agree it's good to note that the combination leads to reduced effects and that more MDMA should not be taken to combat that but given normal usage it doesn't appear like it will lead to SS.
 
This is a great idea. Here's some I can think of:

* Anything that's really vasoconstrictive (DOx, NBOMes, bromo-dragonfly) is dangerous to mix with stimulants that significantly raise heart rate (MDxx, amphetamines, cocaine, etc.), for obvious reasons.

* 5-MeO-MiPT raises blood pressure a lot for many users, so mixing that with a stim is also a bad idea. (You've already got 5-MeO-MiPT + MDMA listed as a bad combo.) I suspect other 5-MeO trypts and short-acting trypts like DMT have this issue too, though there are some good reports of DMT + MDMA.

* Mescaline and MAOIs seem to be ok, at least the MAOIs that are found in cacti. Not sure about moclobemide or other pharmaceuticals though.

* Beta-blockers may be dangerous to combine with adrenergic stimulants like MDxx, amphetamines, and AMT because they can result in unopposed alpha agonism. (Some people claim that all phenethylamines are dangerous to combine with beta-blockers, but I don't understand what the mechanism is supposed to be for 2C-x or others that are only serotonin agonists.)

Personally I've had really bad effects (hot flashes and nausea) from taking 5-HTP too soon before or after 6-APB, or taking Methylone while on St. John's Wort, but that may be an idiosyncratic reaction.
 
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zn13bt said:
Personally I've had really bad effects (hot flashes and nausea) from taking 5-HTP too soon before or after 6-APB, but that may be an idiosyncratic reaction.
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Certainly no coincidence, 5-HTP too soon before MDMA can cause Serotonin Syndrome. Symptoms of SS can be hot flashes/body temp fluctuations, nausea/vomiting, and convulsions/seizures that can lead to death.


Any rule that applies to MDMA will apply to methylone, MDAI, 5/6-APB, 5-IAI or other serotonin releasing chemicals like mephedrone and 4-FA (to a smaller degree)
 
Yeah, I brought it up on the MDAI thread, but some of the other posters seemed to think that pre/post-loading a roll with 5-HTP is just fine. I don't know. I'm not ever going to try that myself...5-HTP + 6-APB felt like I'd poisoned myself, so I'm pretty sure the same would happen with MDMA etc. like you said.

I just remembered that I had a similar reaction the one time I did Methylone while I was taking St. John's Wort (which should probably be listed with the SSRIs), so I added it to my list above.
 
Ohhhh, thanks for the reminder.



St. John's Wort is just dangerous in general... IMO. It can be quoted as being an MAOI, SSRI and DRI.. but it's also none of those things at the same time. I've personally seen some people in ED who have had bad reactions with that combo.. and I think I remember at least hearing about it happening with LSD as well. We don't really know how SJW works, so I'd say it's best to avoid combing anything with it that's not well documented to be safe.



5-HTP + 6-APB felt like I'd poisoned myself
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Serotonin Syndrome is also called Serotonin Poisoning, so yeah, your right in that regard haha


but some of the other posters seemed to think that pre/post-loading a roll with 5-HTP is just fine
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Yeah, E tards aren't the smartest. It's semi-OK to pre-load the week before, but you can't take it for 24+ hours before your roll.... 5-HTP can cause Serotonin Syndrome on it's own, I would never take it... I think we should let out neurochemicals take care of themselves, we don't know enough about the brain to be trying to modify it.




Oh, and another one.... Mirtazapine and MDMA, and possibly other psychedelics that work on serotonin, is a dangerous combination.
 
Thankyou zn13bt, that was a very helpful post. I will update the OP to include a section for beta-blockers. I'll also update it to mention 6-APB.

It would be good to hear from others about the amphetamine/stimulant issue to see if we can arrive at some kind of consensus. Although I very much agree they are bad choices to combine with DOx and NBOMes, and I will always discourage people from doing so, there's no direct pharmacological contraindication that I know of. Maybe these kinds of combos should be put in to a separate "unwise" category? That would mean we could shift unproven interactions such as 5-MeO-MiPT w/ MDMA, MXE w/ MDMA, and Tramadol w/ LSD in to the same category.

Regarding 5-HTP with empathogens, it seems to be a source of debate on ecstasy discussion. I had a similar response to aMT when I was taking 5-HTP up until a couple of days before, although it wasn't really unpleasant like you describe, it was just overwhelming. It was also my only experience with aMT, so I don't have anything to compare it to. But aMT is an MAOI, and MAOIs are contraindicated with 5-HTP. (I hadn't realized or considered it until I had already come down from the trip.)

With MDMA, there are no MAOI properties so it must be that the effects were just overwhelming from a massive release of serotonin built up from 5-HTP use (unless there's some other mechanism I'm unaware of). I've known some people who always got temperature dysregulation and nausea - even vomiting - from MDMA, regardless of whether they were taking anything else. Sometimes the come up is very intense, and pre-loading with 5-HTP would undoubtedly magnify that intensity.

Nevertheless, it's probably a bad enough idea to take the two on the same day for the reasons you stated, so I'll put it in the list!
 
So it would be good to hear from a moderator too, whether we can give this the green light to set this up for the forum...
 
sometimes you will find with 5htp and mdma that the effect is that you are gurning and look like you are rolling but the euphoria is blunted.

with 6apb and 5htp combined it made the 6apb much stronger and added to the euphoria
 
^So you didn't feel as if the two were a dangerous combo?

I don't see how it can be a dangerous combo pharmacologically. It's just that the 5-HTP gives the MDMA or similar compound a lot more serotonin to work with, which is probably why some people are reporting overwhelming experiences. Perhaps it should be taken out of the 'definite' list and put in to an 'unsure but unwise' list.

EDIT: Done.
 
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I think this is an awesome idea, and thanks for posting it. Also thanks for taking the time to actually get a list up and active rather than just saying it'd be a great idea :)

I'd be up for stickying this right away but I think me and the rest of the mod team will have to discuss a couple of things about the thread first - e.g. if it's just a locked sticky or if people can enquire about if a combination is safe inside - and maybe write a little extra documentation to explain why these combinations are unsafe (e.g. serotonin releasers + MAOIs) :)

I don't see any reason not to have this stickied though so unless one of my fellow staff members finds a glaringly obvious hole in the idea that I've missed - expect to see this up as a sticky very soon.
 
Since this is not a topic of specifically psychedelic interest, nor does it relate to any particular drugs but rather drug-use itself, it should go in BDD.

Also, no such topic can cover everything, and there will always be combinations that we've missed. That needs to be made obvious. Alcohol/GHB is missing from the threadstarter here.
 
Jesusgreen said:
I think this is an awesome idea, and thanks for posting it. Also thanks for taking the time to actually get a list up and active rather than just saying it'd be a great idea :)

I'd be up for stickying this right away but I think me and the rest of the mod team will have to discuss a couple of things about the thread first - e.g. if it's just a locked sticky or if people can enquire about if a combination is safe inside - and maybe write a little extra documentation to explain why these combinations are unsafe (e.g. serotonin releasers + MAOIs) :)

I don't see any reason not to have this stickied though so unless one of my fellow staff members finds a glaringly obvious hole in the idea that I've missed - expect to see this up as a sticky very soon.
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Thank you Jesusgreen, I PM'd you. Indeed, there may be things you would like to change about it which is why I'm inviting everyone to participate in it's creation. It may be that some of the info is inaccurate or incomplete and needs to be challenged by someone with greater pharmacological knowledge, so if the thread is closed the information should be submitted to the mods for review.

atara said:
Since this is not a topic of specifically psychedelic interest, nor does it relate to any particular drugs but rather drug-use itself, it should go in BDD.

Also, no such topic can cover everything, and there will always be combinations that we've missed. That needs to be made obvious. Alcohol/GHB is missing from the threadstarter here.
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I updated it for alcohol and ibogaine yesterday, as per my above post. (It will be constantly updated and is never considered "finished"). Additionally, you will see I added a disclaimer at the top of the thread stating that the list is not exhaustive - since there are always going to be pharmacological interactions unaccounted for no matter how obscure. The point is to get whatever information we can up and available.

I disagree about sending it over to BDD. Some PD users might never go there (I don't) and as such they would miss it. If every sub-forum had it's own version covering the types of drugs discussed there, it would actually make it a lot easier than lumping every single interaction between ever single drug all in one long messy and unreadable post. Doing it this way keeps it tidy and concise, and relevant to the point (psychedelic drugs).
 
Really, Survived Abortion, this thread is enough to give me nightmares... I'm exaggerating, but how about a thread like 'the good, the bad and the ugly' based on any particular combos being experienced.
 
This is a great thread! I say it should be stuck up there hands down!

The more we know, the less likely we'll be harmed.
 
Survived Abortion said:
Thank you Jesusgreen, I PM'd you. Indeed, there may be things you would like to change about it which is why I'm inviting everyone to participate in it's creation. It may be that some of the info is inaccurate or incomplete and needs to be challenged by someone with greater pharmacological knowledge, so if the thread is closed the information should be submitted to the mods for review.



I updated it for alcohol and ibogaine yesterday, as per my above post. (It will be constantly updated and is never considered "finished"). Additionally, you will see I added a disclaimer at the top of the thread stating that the list is not exhaustive - since there are always going to be pharmacological interactions unaccounted for no matter how obscure. The point is to get whatever information we can up and available.

I disagree about sending it over to BDD. Some PD users might never go there (I don't) and as such they would miss it. If every sub-forum had it's own version covering the types of drugs discussed there, it would actually make it a lot easier than lumping every single interaction between ever single drug all in one long messy and unreadable post. Doing it this way keeps it tidy and concise, and relevant to the point (psychedelic drugs).
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I would agree with this. I can count the times I've been in BDD on one or two hands probably, and I've been a member over eight years. I highly doubt many of the newer members (the ones who most likely could use the help the most) are going to go to BDD when they are looking for info on combining psychs.

Possibly post this thread as a sticky in each subforum it could possibly be relevant too?
 
^Thanks for the support. Yes, I think it would be relevant to post it (or a similar relevant version) wherever people taking these drugs are going to be frequenting.

It would be good if we could get this up before it gets forgotten. In the meantime, does anybody have any other combos to suggest? Atara mentioned GHB, but I don't know of any specific contraindications involving it. I haven't included deleriants such as the datura alkaloids, but if anybody knows any specific contraindications please let us know in this thread.
 
I suggest this goes no where near a sticky until it's finished...


Send it over to ADD. They can work it all out, and come up with reasons and explanations for each one. Then, when it's complete it can be copied and have a full list of dangerous drug combos from all the categories in each forum, stickied appropriately.

I mean, don't be selfish... this isn't just relevant to PD, it could be a forum-wide project
 
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