The Big & Dandy Brain Zaps / Brain Shivers Thread

[Solipsis]

its probably much more complex than that.

I'm sure it is

Let's look at when brain zaps happen though: most often after SSRI discontinuation, MDMA use or abuse that was in some way inappropriately (or in susceptible individuals) and sometimes with drugs like mushrooms apparently. I would believe other suggestions of serotonergic drugs.

As for caffeine and the supposed involvement of adenosine and it's receptors in the dopaminergic system: it is an example of how these systems and 'circuits' are interconnected. Activation of one system is likely to activate or inhibit another one. Rather than dopamine:serotonin levels (where exactly, perhaps synaptic levels?) I would personally think of dopaminergic pathways affecting the serotonin system significantly and even through caffeine's adenosine effects through dopamine to serotonin. It seems to me that though I have not been specific about anything and basically don't really know the specifics enough to understand well what I am talking about, this is the chain of 'causality'. Why? Because I have not yet heard of brain zaps after drugs like anti-psychotic dopamine antagonists or DARI's and certainly not caffeine alone because IIRC it's effects are at some point attenuated or at least there is significant tolerance effect which is why some people can drink pots every day.
So, either directly or indirectly all I have heard is associations with the serotonergic system. Now what exactly is going on, if there is too much or too little and where and how, that I can't even begin to try and explain.
edit: It seems I had forgotten about GABAergic withdrawal also being able to cause this, but again: directly or indirectly? Is there an excess of glutamate that cascades through secondary pathways?

It seems to happen the most with SSRI discontinuation which is known to chronically change the super-pattern of serotonergic activity so to speak. Something about it's signalling transmission is altered, which may differ locally or happens in a very specific uniform way. So I imagine this activity to be orchestrated in a specific 'rearrangement' and when this stops the brain must return to doing this the natural way again and snap back into place. Depletion by MDMA for example would also temporarily force the brain to manage it's neurotransmission differently before snapping back. This 'snapping' seems to cause the zap.

Again: I HAVE to say, I am dreaming aloud on the subject and would love for some ADD-level wisdom to be bestowed but perhaps it cannot because nobody doesn't really understand yet and more research may have to be done. I wonder, is it possible to create in vitro zaps or is a larger piece of nervous system needed for the buildup of charge? I'd bet my money on the latter, analogous to putting a mile of duracell batteries in one connective chain and shocking the shit out of something if it short-circuits through it.

Please, keep the sharing of outspoken dreams coming, though facts are of course a hundred times better. I'll give you a virtual hug for some of those.

http://www.pointofreturn.com/brain_zaps.html

The small amount Serotonin in the CNS attaches to receptors that lie along the brain stem from the midbrain to the medulla (lower half of the brainstem). Most antidepressant medications work by holding serotonin for longer periods in the synaptic spaces of the nervous system, and it is this space between nerve cells that has an electrical current. Since Serotonin transmits currents, it is highly possible that holding the Serotonin longer than nature intended could cause a misfiring of electrical current resulting in a Brain Zap. communicate in multiple ways.

The logic doesn't seem to hold because brain zaps don't tend to happen - shit I gtg

Benzodiazepines and Sleeping pills work on GABA (Gamma-Aminobutric Acid), which is the neurotransmitter that prevents over-stimulation of the central nervous system. Continual use of anxiety medications and sleeping pills 'down regulate' the GABA receptors and reduce their ability to ease an over-excited state. This could explain the Brain Zaps that occur while on medications or in the withdrawal process for drugs that affect GABA. Rather than inhibiting the electrical activity in the brain, tolerance and withdrawal symptoms over-stimulate, allowing more electrical impulses to go unchecked.

 

[huolesoh]

i've had some brain zaps after a bad stimulant experience, i really should have assessed the whole situation better, and do still worry whether, months later, if i have caused some irreversible damage, it's the one drug experience i truly regret and hate to remember. although other times i think about the experience like my life being jump started, like as you do with a car battery

I imagine this activity to be orchestrated in a specific 'rearrangement' and when this stops the brain must return to doing this the natural way again and snap back into place. Depletion by MDMA for example would also temporarily force the brain to manage it's neurotransmission differently before snapping back. This 'snapping' seems to cause the zap.

perhaps it's like when you dislocate an arm ! snap it back...

it's funny on mescaline and acid i have had this zap just above the arm, not anywhere in the brain, but this zap doesn't worry me. it's always in the same place, and it's like a sudden zap. perhaps it's just general displacement to concentrated energies - similar to lightning, nothing to worry about, just a random phenomena

 

[Cyanoide]

Whatever the causes for brain zaps are, 2 weeks after quitting escitalopram my brain zaps are now almost completely gone or very mild. I haven't felt depressed or anxious during withdrawal, which is unusual.

The only thing that really increases brain zaps now is physical exercise, e.g. if I walk very fast I start getting zaps. Also if I'm running. But otherwise it's fine.

 

[Albion]

I find exhaustion and tiredness brings them on in waves. If I'm prone to zaps, I'll get more of them after a long day.

 

[dr_zoidberg590]

My brain zaps lasted weeks after a cold turkey withdrawal from Benzodiazepines, specifically Valium. Worst when trying to sleep. When the night ones occured they sometimes came with an adrenaline rush and falling sensation which woke me up always. I'm 6 months of benzos and no longer get brain zaps just muscle jerks they're getting rarer and rarer but I still get them when trying to sleep.

Just wanted to make it clear this can be caused by valium withdrawal and other benzos eg Klonopin. Other withdrawers have also noticed them.

 

[golden1]

you can produce these or milder ones with batteries and wire to either side of your head, just saying(not that its safe.. lol). I gotten them from dmt+phenibut and dmt while in slight benzo w/d, but they were even weirder then other times(benzow/d). Sometimes I also get a similar feeling but weaker, usually associated with movement, that runs from my brain to my whole body or just the part I moved, this has happened for years randomly on no drugs and before even doing any. Does anyone else get that..?

 

[mikeman189]

I typically have brain zaps after consuming a large amount of amphetamines. Even more so if I haven't slept in 2-3 days.

 

[PhyllipThylamine]

I rarely over-use MDMA but on the one or two occassions I have done, I've suffered a couple of whatever the hell it is people call "brain-zaps". I also got them when I was using too much Meph, back 2010. These were the worst ones & the longest lived, the Meph ones. Something doesnt feel right after a nights Etiz sleep either, but I'm not sure I've had a proper zap from Eti, just a bit of a brief, weird, buzzing head discomfort as I wake up. I have not noticed any from weed or from psyches, nor from Amphetamines but it's been YEARS since I had some proper phet.

They are worrying, uncomfortable, slightly painful & a bit frightening but I don't think they are a serious concern. I hope not anyway!

 

[Captain Brewster]

I stopped escitalopram last Friday and today, Wednesday im getting them the worst.

I used to get similar things happen when I was younger and didn't use drugs (except daily weed), it would happen to me when I'd get frustrated or real angry, wouldn't last long and was not as intense as the ones I'm getting now from esciltalopram.

Really annoying, at first I didn't mind it, but now its just a plain straight pain in the arse.

Any methods of getting rid of them?? I'm going to start a multivitamin tommorow. Hope it helps.

Only other thing I can think I why, last weekend I hit the shrooms up pritty big whilst on the AD.

 

[deckmunki]

Little or nothing seems to help me, but my symptoms have never persisted more than a couple of days, thankfully. They seem to correspond to adrenal surges - surprise, vertigo, etc - so if you can minimise these, you may find it reduces occurrence. I also found - but can't recommend - a glass of wine (two at the most) as it seems to relax things, but alcohol is a poor drug for any purpose.

I do hope your symptoms dissipate as soon as possible

Al

 

[exists]

Hi everyone,

I've been getting brain zaps periodically for weeks now, with the typical sensations: an electric feeling originating somewhere inside my brain and extending throughout my body, often felt in my tongue. Pretty much like putting your tongue to a 9 volt battery, but I feel it everywhere. Lasts for 2/3 of a second. Dizziness often occurs as well, and lasts longer than the initial "shock." Agitation too, which has been ongoing. A break in the continuum of my thought processes is also present, but it may just be that I'm paying attention to the zaps more than actually losing touch with the outside world.

It's all very disconcerting, especially since I'm dealing with some deep emotional issues as well.

I'd like to know exactly which drugs are causing these brain zaps. Here is a list of everything I'm taking:

daily meds (I'm bipolar II):

*mirtazapine
*lamotrigine
*gabapentin​

other drugs:

*tobacco (10-15 cigarettes/day)
*caffeine (coffee, 3 cups/day)
*alcohol (2-3 drinks a day every 1-2 days, with breaks of 2 weeks or more)
*cannabis (infrequently)
*JWH-018 (infrequently)
*dextromethorphan (was around 60 mg every other day for about two weeks, now only 60 mg every week or so with the occasional higher dose [highest in recent times was 250 mg])
*diphenhydramine (25-50 mg at a time, infrequently)
*powdered Chinese ephedra root (probably ma huang)(infrequently)
​

The first time I ever got this shit was years ago when I stopped taking venlafaxine (hate that stuff).

This resurgence first occurred after three events:

1) I ran low on my lamotrigine, and was thus taking it only once every 4-6 days
2) I had taken 2 'OO' gelcaps of ephedra the previous day
3) I had not taken any dextromethorphan for several days. I had been taking a little over 60 mg every two days for about two weeks before a 5 day break.​

I guess the top two suspects are the lamotrigine and DXM. I've been taking lamotrigine for years, occasionally skipping a day here and there. DXM is something I used to take no more than once every month, but I recently got some powder online and started using it more frequently (albeit at lower dosages).

To combat the zaps, I have tried small doses of DXM. It helps, but even a 30 mg dose alters my state of mind considerably, so it's not something I really want to be doing unless I'm in the mood for it.

Alcohol seems to make the brain zaps worse, even after just one drink. I guess I'll have to stop.

Is it possible that I have actually become physically dependent on DXM? Even on such small doses, for a relatively short period of time? Or is the lamotrigine to blame? I'm probably just taking too many substances

Any input would be appreciated~

 

[Reverend Random]

Brain zaps!

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZAP! Completely missed this discussion, but damn, aren't brain zaps freaky? I get them irregularly, only under the influence of psychedelics, and I think even only when doing tryptamines. Mainly mushrooms and ayahuasca. Sometimes they can be reeeaaaally intense and scary, but they feel rather orgasmic at the same time as well. Although I feel fine when I get them - before, during and after - and I know that they're not physically disconcerting, they can freak me out a bit, especially when I get a few in a row. Hasn't happened to me in quite some time, but that's the weird part about it too. Sometimes I get them, sometimes I don't.

I am not on any form of medication (serotonergic or other), nor have I been, so what exactly explains these zaps is still a mystery to me.

Actually, come to think of it, the closest analogy I can describe the feeling with is if your brain were "tilted", much like a pinball machine would when you push it too hard. Feels like a kind of reset of the brain, but not in the psychological sense (unfortunately)...

 

[Si Dread]

Honestly! Even the lightest Zap is unpleasant & I hate them. How on earth you could enjoy a Brain Zap is quite beyond my ability to fathom!

Hi everyone,

I've been getting brain zaps periodically for weeks now, with the typical sensations: an electric feeling originating somewhere inside my brain and extending throughout my body, often felt in my tongue. Pretty much like putting your tongue to a 9 volt battery, but I feel it everywhere. Lasts for 2/3 of a second. Dizziness often occurs as well, and lasts longer than the initial "shock." Agitation too, which has been ongoing. A break in the continuum of my thought processes is also present, but it may just be that I'm paying attention to the zaps more than actually losing touch with the outside world.

It's all very disconcerting, especially since I'm dealing with some deep emotional issues as well.

I'd like to know exactly which drugs are causing these brain zaps. Here is a list of everything I'm taking:

daily meds (I'm bipolar II):

*mirtazapine
*lamotrigine
*gabapentin​

other drugs:

*tobacco (10-15 cigarettes/day)
*caffeine (coffee, 3 cups/day)
*alcohol (2-3 drinks a day every 1-2 days, with breaks of 2 weeks or more)
*cannabis (infrequently)
*JWH-018 (infrequently)
*dextromethorphan (was around 60 mg every other day for about two weeks, now only 60 mg every week or so with the occasional higher dose [highest in recent times was 250 mg])
*diphenhydramine (25-50 mg at a time, infrequently)
*powdered Chinese ephedra root (probably ma huang)(infrequently)
​

The first time I ever got this shit was years ago when I stopped taking venlafaxine (hate that stuff).

This resurgence first occurred after three events:

1) I ran low on my lamotrigine, and was thus taking it only once every 4-6 days
2) I had taken 2 'OO' gelcaps of ephedra the previous day
3) I had not taken any dextromethorphan for several days. I had been taking a little over 60 mg every two days for about two weeks before a 5 day break.​

I guess the top two suspects are the lamotrigine and DXM. I've been taking lamotrigine for years, occasionally skipping a day here and there. DXM is something I used to take no more than once every month, but I recently got some powder online and started using it more frequently (albeit at lower dosages).

To combat the zaps, I have tried small doses of DXM. It helps, but even a 30 mg dose alters my state of mind considerably, so it's not something I really want to be doing unless I'm in the mood for it.

Alcohol seems to make the brain zaps worse, even after just one drink. I guess I'll have to stop.

Is it possible that I have actually become physically dependent on DXM? Even on such small doses, for a relatively short period of time? Or is the lamotrigine to blame? I'm probably just taking too many substances

Any input would be appreciated~

Hey friend! After a foul up with a recent RC released in the UK I have been doing quite a bit of research on the Brain Zaps phenomena. I am not entirely ready to post my discoveries but I can make a couple of suggestions for combating your Zaps. I'm sorry but I can't seem to put my finger on whats causing them for you but I'm certain that Serotonergic drugs either recreational or medicinal are the primary culprits. Long term use of either Ecstacy type drugs, or extened daily use of SSRI type drugs seem to cause Brain Zaps in some users. In most cases it's cessation of use that brings them on. Next in line seems to be the benzodiazepine series of anti-anxiety or sleeping drugs. These seem to bring Zaps in people who have a high tolerance & are likely to take higher doses. People who suffer Zaps from these drugs seem to have them while they are taking the meds as well as when they cease or taper them. I suspect that Xanax & it's UK legal, popular relative Etizolam to also be triggers for Brain Zaps. Obviously, through reading this thread I've come to the conclusion that in some cases Psychedelic drugs also appear to bring Brain Zaps, though they tend to be during the drug trip.

For recovery I have found rapid & surprising relief from the introduction of large amounts of fish oils to my diet. Bombarding my system with Omega 3, 6 & 9, increasing my intake of sea-food & fish & adding multi-vits & especially the B vitamins & Vitamin B12 eases my Brain Zaps within half an hour. Redosing fish oils or half a tin of tuna if Zaps return gets rid of them straight away. If I slack off & reduce my intake, the Zaps start worming their way back into my life. After recovering from my mistake with drugs the Zaps are minor & bearable even when they're at their worst!

I hope this helps in some way until I can collate ALL my data at which point I shall return to this thread.

One last word. I don't think they're deadly or anything but I also do not think it's healthy to suffer these. I believe they may be mini epileptic fits & might inidicate a propensity for seizures. If you can take action such as life-style changes that reduce Zaps, you should do it. If you find fish oils help, keep taking them. These Zap things could be completely harmless, even severe, long-term ones, but let's not assume that without any real evidence.

My Brain Zaps drug freak-out is described here :- http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/664058-Worrying-strange-amp-unpleasant-illness-with-brain-zaps!

 

[StWd]

I would certainly say they have something to do with seratonin.

I come to this hypothesis as alot of people say they get this after MDMA, or SSRI withdrawl as Xorkoth mentioned, and I seem to get them when I am coming off Prednisone (corticosteroids), and these drugs cause me (and many others I suspect) to have VERY strange things happen to serotonin levels at time when I am decreasing the dose.

Oddly enough, I've felt like I used to have those a lot more often before I started taking MDMA every 1-2 months (since a year ago). I have had a quite lucid dreams and this is the big smack that wakes me up and I shiver and feel numb. I used to have night terrors too. Not sure if the lessening of brain zaps is caused by the MDMA or tripping though, I had my first trip about a month after I tried MDMA and the brain zaps were quite occasional anyway. I know MDMA helps release seratonin though so I have an inkling it has more to do with that

 

[exists]

Honestly! Even the lightest Zap is unpleasant & I hate them. How on earth you could enjoy a Brain Zap is quite beyond my ability to fathom!

Mine too! But I have a feeling that some of the people here are describing something other than brain zaps.

I hope this helps in some way until I can collate ALL my data at which point I shall return to this thread.

I'll certainly keep your words in mind if the zaps make a comeback, Si Ingwe.

I am now fairly certain that the zaps were caused primarily by the DXM cessation. DXM has some SSRI effects, right? The fact that they appeared after having stopped my daily dose of DXM is somewhat telling, especially since I've had to go off the lamotrigine for good (skin rash), and didn't get but one or two light brain zaps from doing so.

 

[Reverend Random]

Mine too! But I have a feeling that some of the people here are describing something other than brain zaps.

I'm really quite sure that we are talking about the same thing though. Not all of the zaps can be pleasurable, especially when I get a few of them in a row, but having your brain zapped can feel quite nice and somewhat orgasmic in a sense. I can see why others wouldn't be able to relate, but there's something enjoyable about them. Don't know it it's masochism either. Strange.

 

[Hleb]

Hey guys,

First time poster, really happy to find this thread and see that so many of you experienced something similar. Im a 25 year old male, not taking any medication, healthy and athletic. i do every now and then take certain substances (mild hallucinogenics, research chemicals, coke, xtc), maybe once every month or something. However, I was quite dumb and binged quite hard on both mdma and research chems (mainly methylone/4fmp) for a couple days straight on a music festival. Right now I cant believe I was such an idiot. I always thought I was quite 'untouchable' as I've never had any adverse effects from taking drugs.

However, the night after the festival I had trouble falling asleep and got some bad cases of sleep paralysis (which I've had before even without drugs). The second night after that I kept having these 'jolts' and horrible horrible sleep paralysis (8-10 times before actually falling asleep). Then the next day, so basically two days after taking something for the last time, I started getting the typical horrible brain zaps/electric shocks. They would get so intense that I would feel like I would fall over and I let out a little scream. Things that triggered them differed, but drinking something (I mean like, non-alcoholic) seemed to trigger it for instance. It was quite bad for a day and a half but the zaps almost dissapeared (meanwhile, it was almost impossible to sleep).

However, I still get an electric sensation hundreds of times a day, a slight tingle in my face, hand, fingers, body, even teeth sometimes and I feel kind of weird. Im sure some of you can relate. It just freaks me out and makes me feel uncomfortable when it happens in social settings.

My questions are:
1. For those who also had the shivers, how long did they last for you, days, weeks?
2. What helped relieve them or make them go away faster?

Thanks a lot in advance, Im starting to go a bit crazy and fearing this is going to be forever or something (however irratioinal that thought might be).

 

[Hleb]

Hey guys,

First time poster, really happy to find this thread and see that so many of you experienced something similar. Im a 25 year old male, not taking any medication, healthy and athletic. i do every now and then take certain substances (mild hallucinogenics, research chemicals, coke, xtc), maybe once every month or something. However, I was quite dumb and binged quite hard on both mdma and research chems (mainly methylone/4fmp) for a couple days straight on a music festival. Right now I cant believe I was such an idiot. I always thought I was quite 'untouchable' as I've never had any adverse effects from taking drugs.

However, the night after the festival I had trouble falling asleep and got some bad cases of sleep paralysis (which I've had before even without drugs). The second night after that I kept having these 'jolts' and horrible horrible sleep paralysis (8-10 times before actually falling asleep). Then the next day, so basically two days after taking something for the last time, I started getting the typical horrible brain zaps/electric shocks. They would get so intense that I would feel like I would fall over and I let out a little scream. Things that triggered them differed, but drinking something (I mean like, non-alcoholic) seemed to trigger it for instance. It was quite bad for a day and a half but the zaps almost dissapeared (meanwhile, it was almost impossible to sleep).

However, I still get an electric sensation hundreds of times a day, a slight tingle in my face, hand, fingers, body, even teeth sometimes and I feel kind of weird. Im sure some of you can relate. It just freaks me out and makes me feel uncomfortable when it happens in social settings.

My questions are:
1. For those who also had the shivers, how long did they last for you, days, weeks?
2. What helped relieve them or make them go away faster?

Thanks a lot in advance, Im starting to go a bit crazy and fearing this is going to be forever or something (however irratioinal that thought might be).

Same guy again. It's four days later now and a lot has changed. Not long after posting the zaps came back quite hard for a couple hours and I had a huge feeling of being really really depressed and drained and empty for about 8 hours. The zaps werent as intense as they were on their 'peak', but still so hard I spasmed a bit when they happened. Now both the zaps and the tingles/shivers are completely gone and I feel fine, Iäve actually been able to fall asleep without any issues the last two nights.

I'm not sure if any of these actions really contributed to the zaps and tingles stopping, but what I changed after the zaps came back was:
* Drank tons of water and nothing else
* Ate a ton of fruits, veggies and lean sources of protein
* Supplementing fish oil (tons) and magnesium
* Tried to catch sleep whenever I could

Like I said, not sure if that was really what made a change or if it was just time passing and the body/brain repairing itself. But I went from barely being able to function and feeling like shit to being completelzy myself again in a couple days.

Also, what I found to be BY FAR the biggest trigger for the zaps and shivers to arise was the consumption of caffein. I usually consume a lot of caffein (coffee/diet cola throughout the day), energy drinks before training sessions etc etc. Now when I consumed not even that big amounts of caffein the zaps and shivers would instantly become more intense and I felt a significant change when I stopped ingesting anything with significant amounts of caffein.

I also tried supplementing 5htp but I feel like it only made me feel way worse, can anyone shine some light on this?

 

[Si Dread]

All & any brain food appears to help. I'm still getting the ocassional zap but they seem fewer & further between if I'm using Omega 3, 6 & 9 & eating plenty of fish. Other multi-vits & minerals can't help for sure.

Glad shit's improving for you! Don't do that again, will you?

This stuff is great! -

 

[e1evene1even]

I seem to get "brain zaps" fairly consistently with 4-aco-dmt and HWBR seeds but nothing else really.