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Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DET Thread

Well, it would be a quantity small enough for just maybe 4 trips of 4-ho-det. I already have some 4-aco-det here, along with just one dose of Proscaline (and that's for another thread, I never tried it, other mescaline analogs I can get.

I found a place finally that is no-nonsense, well rated somewhere vendor which has 4-ho-det (and a ridiculously huge list of products) and everybody on that particular review site views it very well. I was going to buy a little DiPT due to the probably hilarity of going out at the outdoor concerts in both my provinces's national holiday and canada day...the best 7 days of the year usually, but 2 vendors i knew of that had it now has a grayed out add to cart button. ugh.
 
Tried this stuff for the first time the other day. Ate 20mg with a good glass of wine. Smoked a joint at the peak. Great buzz. It was pretty euphoric actually. The visuals were great too. I'll be using this one a lot for sure!

I ate 25mg followed by 20mg more insufflated over the next 45 minutes. Tolerance was there and the visuals were still good.
 
I'd like to give a heads up on this stuff with performing music.On 20mg, my dexterity isn't diminished,and my memory can still function enough, to play complex pieces of music, on my piano.Practicing on the electric organ is even better with the light easy action of the keyboard.Playing music on this stuff is a blast.
 
Dosed 25mg the other day along with some 3-MeO-PCP. This stuff has some strange physical effect on me. Everytime I took it I had a lot of shaking and tremors on the body. Like really violent. It's not a bad body load, as I quite even enjoy the shaking and feel it really funny and not unconfortable at all. But I'll prefer to dose 4-AcO-DMT or 4-HO-MET instead of this one. I'm think I'm done researching, and I'll flush what I've got left of this.
 
^I am glad I never delved into the risky drugs such as PCP analogues. PCP's potential brain damage, the fatalities, psychosis, and the stories of addiction kept me away. I had been avoiding focusing on researching the neurotoxicity PCP creates. Considering the PCP analogues were recently made prevalent in PD, perhaps I should focus on researching those dangers more.

The 4-subsitituted tryptamines are beautiful as is. I only take them alone. This is how they are most enjoyable and safe.
 
^I do tend to agree that that dissociatives as a class are substantially more risky--at least in terms of behavioral "toxicity"--than psychedelics. Manic-psychotic episodes are certainly possible--and that risk is clearly amplified in the case of the compounds that feel more subjectively "clear-headed" or that lack ketamine's propensity for inducing couch-lock.

However, I do hope you realize that the term "PCP analogue" means very little. PCP is a potent agonist at the PCP site of the NMDA receptor, at sigma receptors, and at dopamine receptors. 3-meo-pcp (the "analogue you've probably seen "pop up" in PD more often) is actually well-established as being unusually selective--hitting just NMDA and sigma-2. 3-meo-pce is also making the rounds, and has generally similar properties to 3-meo-pcp, although I don't know if its binding profile has ever been examined.

Now PCE (eticyclidine) was scheduled around the same time as PCP because it was found to have nearly identical properties. PCM (meticyclidine) is also comparable to the other two, though I don't believe it ever managed to get scheduled. MXE is 3-meo-2'-oxo-PCE. For that matter, ketamine is 2-chloro-2'oxo-PCM.

Many of the PCP "analogues" you see pop up in PD are just as closely related or even more closely related to MXE or Ketamine than they are to PCP. They're just named more easily using a shared nomenclature, rather than as derivatives of whichever dissociative drug we feel like evoking.

And more food for thought: the more potent drugs are actually comparatively less physiologically toxic,since less material is consumed: ketamine is known for causing bladder damage. This damage is markedly reduced with MXE, and further reduced (essentially to zero) with the handful of highly potent analogues that only require doses in the single-digit milligram range.

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On 4-ho-DET: I've considered picking it up a few times, but from what I've read it's very much comparable to 4-ho-met in the same way that 5-meo-dipt is comparable to 5-meo-mipt. That is: subjectively similar, except with a profound "electric" bodiload including shaking/muscle tremor. While that's not necessarily a subjectively displeasing attribute, it doesn't do wonders for my opinion of the compound's safety.
 
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I don't know that 4-HO-DET would actually be very similar to 4-HO-MET. I've tried 4-AcO-MET at least and it doesn't sound very similar to 4-HO-DET at all. And I've tried both 5-MeO-MiPT and 5-MeO-DiPT, neither of which had very many similarities at all. They were actually very, very different from each other.
 
InterestingFACT said:
^I do tend to agree that that dissociatives as a class are substantially more risky--at least in terms of behavioral "toxicity"--than psychedelics. Manic-psychotic episodes are certainly possible--and that risk is clearly amplified in the case of the compounds that feel more subjectively "clear-headed" or that lack ketamine's propensity for inducing couch-lock.

However, I do hope you realize that the term "PCP analogue" means very little. PCP is a potent agonist at the PCP site of the NMDA receptor, at sigma receptors, and at dopamine receptors. 3-meo-pcp (the "analogue you've probably seen "pop up" in PD more often) is actually well-established as being unusually selective--hitting just NMDA and sigma-2. 3-meo-pce is also making the rounds, and has generally similar properties to 3-meo-pcp, although I don't know if its binding profile has ever been examined.

Now PCE (eticyclidine) was scheduled around the same time as PCP because it was found to have nearly identical properties. PCM (meticyclidine) is also comparable to the other two, though I don't believe it ever managed to get scheduled. MXE is 3-meo-2'-oxo-PCE. For that matter, ketamine is 2-chloro-2'oxo-PCM.

Many of the PCP "analogues" you see pop up in PD are just as closely related or even more closely related to MXE or Ketamine than they are to PCP. They're just named more easily using a shared nomenclature, rather than as derivatives of whichever dissociative drug we feel like evoking.

And more food for thought: the more potent drugs are actually comparatively less physiologically toxic,since less material is consumed: ketamine is known for causing bladder damage. This damage is markedly reduced with MXE, and further reduced (essentially to zero) with the handful of highly potent analogues that only require doses in the single-digit milligram range.

---

On 4-ho-DET: I've considered picking it up a few times, but from what I've read it's very much comparable to 4-ho-met in the same way that 5-meo-dipt is comparable to 5-meo-mipt. That is: subjectively similar, except with a profound "electric" bodiload including shaking/muscle tremor. While that's not necessarily a subjectively displeasing attribute, it doesn't do wonders for my opinion of the compound's safety.
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God bless you for taking the words out of my mouth, sir :D <3
 
The -METs and -DETs are very dissimilar as far as differences between 4-sub-tryptamines are concerned. The -DETs are much more serious and electric in nature for me, rather cold and psychological, while the -METs are earthy and warm and emotional, and colorful.
 
InterestingFACT,

In general your comment made me think the recent potent PCP analogues weren't potentially harmful. I researched the toxicity of drugs interacting with the NMDA receptor. Bladder toxicity isn't the most dangerous effect. Nerurotoxicity is the most dangerous effect. Be clear in your explanations. The last thing you want is misinformed people using dissociatives thinking they aren't potentially harmful, experiencing permanent brain damage, then destroying the reputation of the classical psychedelics by association. The War on Drugs won't last without drug abuse tragedies. Let's prevent those tragedies. Let's keep people informed, responsible, and safe.

The worst physiological effects from dissociatives result form interactions with the NMDA receptor. This neurotoxicity is potentially the most dangerous with the potent chemicals. The fact the users of PCP analogues report permanent tolerance is especially concerning considering research has suggested brain damage results from the usage of similar drugs. I avoid any drug causing irreversible brain changes.

Hence, I prefer the classical psychedelics such as LSD and 4-substituted tryptamines. I prefer the effects of classical psychedelics and they are physiologically safe.
 
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TheBlackPirate said:
InterestingFACT,

In general your comment made me think the recent potent PCP analogues weren't potentially harmful. I researched the toxicity of drugs interacting with the NMDA receptor. Bladder toxicity isn't the most dangerous effect. Neurotoxicity is the most dangerous effect. Be clear in your explanations. The last thing you want is misinformed people using dissociatives thinking they aren't potentially harmful, experiencing permanent brain damage, then destroying the reputation of the classical psychedelics by association. The War on Drugs won't last without drug abuse tragedies. Let's prevent those tragedies. Let's keep people informed, responsible, and safe.

The worst physiological effects from dissociatives result form interactions with the NMDA receptor. This neurotoxicity is potentially the most dangerous with the potent chemicals. The fact the users of PCP analogues report permanent tolerance is especially concerning considering research has suggested brain damage results from the usage of similar drugs. I avoid any drug causing irreversible brain changes.

Hence, I prefer the classical psychedelics such as LSD and 4-substituted tryptamines. I prefer the effects of classical psychedelics and they are physiologically safe.
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You're referring to Olney's lesions.

Those are largely speculative in humans--though some recent research on ketamine has borne fruit--and have been discovered in animal models of ketamine and dxm abuse. And in fact they have never been found in any of the recent pcp analogues--though I'm sure only because of lack of research. As a side note: NMDA tolerance is not truly permanent, nor is permanent tolerance a hallmark of neurotoxicity. Those concepts are just not related in the way that you think they are.

Your comments are non-specific and prone to generalization, but also misleading. If you meant to say that you believe dissociative drugs pose a neurotoxicity risk than I agree with you. That being said, this risk only manifests in abuse scenarios, and is considered sufficiently minimal that the medical establishment feels perfectly comfortable using ketamine in a variety of new drug trials for antidepressant and therapeutic effects. Moreover, if this is what you meant to say, you should have said "I believe NMDA antagonists are dangerous" or "I believe dissociative anaesthetics are dangerous." Inserting the terminology "PCP analogue" is a scare tactic meant to engender an emotional response, and is misleading for the reasons I already described. When you do this, you're not helping, you're hurting.

I'm getting the feeling that you aren't participating in this forum in good faith. There are many people on this forum who don't use dissociatives--either because they aren't interested, or because they aren't willing to risk addiction/behavioral "toxicity" as a described. I personally don't frequently use them--I don't particularly enjoy the dissociated state, and I think that frequent use is a slippery slope with signficant risk of addiction and negative effects on social environment. However, I don't think anyone is making that choice because of a hypothetical neurotoxicity risk. If that's your reasoning, that's fine, but you're attempting to insert loaded terms into conversation to describe a partial picture of that reasoning as if it's more rational than it is. Please stop.

I don't believe nor care whether you're steamboatbill (as someone accused you of in that other thread). But I do care that you participate in good faith. Past a certain point I'm going to get tired of even responding to your posts--but someone will have to, because otherwise your misinformation will be allowed to stand unchallenged.
 
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^that was because I gave my opinion PCP analogues could cause permanent brain changes and 4 substituted tryptamines are safe?
 
TheBlackPirate said:
^that was because I gave my opinion PCP analogues could cause permanent brain changes and 4 substituted tryptamines are safe?
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It's because of your repeated characterization of arylcyclohexylamine dissociative drugs as a class misleadingly by the term "pcp analogue"--a non-specific and non-descriptive term which is in fact very likely to cause confusion regarding the subset of drugs to which you refer. The foundational research upon which your concerns rest has been conducted on drugs which many uneducated people viewing this site would not immediately associate as a pcp-analogue: drugs like ketamine, methoxetamine, diphenidine, and ephenidine. Moreover it's because of your tendency to repeat the same sentiments (i.e. I'm concerned about neurotoxicity of pcp analogues) when confronted with a response that addresses or partially refutes those sentiments. For example, I noted that the "boogeyman" of NMDA-mediated neurotoxicity--Olney's lesions--has only been observed in extremely high attack dose experiments utilizing DXM and PCP in Dawley rats, but never in humans. And I also noted that the only evidence of NMDA-mediated neurotoxicity in humans has been in extremely high-dose daily abuse of ketamine by edge-case addicts.

I did give credence to the concern that dissociative drug use is higher risk behavior: I agree with that sentiment. However, I stated that the primary risks of dissociative drug use are addiction and social dysfunction/isolation or exposure/incrimination (i.e. getting into trouble with the law, or hurting yourself or others, while in a dissociated manic-psychotic state). I think those risks are significantly different than neurotoxicity, and deserve a very different set of analytical criteria for an individual to make a reasonable cost-benefit analysis. Neurotoxicity is not a compelling threat to usage of dissociative-anaesthetics.

The reason I accused you of participating in bad faith is that I made these objections, clarifications, and explanations, and you in no way addressed them in your response, but instead reiterated your original point--which was sufficiently rebutted to require at the very least a counterargument on your part to maintain face-validity.
 
Here PCP is still a common street drug. I know people who are engineers (mech and electrical) who were snorting it all the time when 16-20. I think the liquid in the US, which is often pure to levels the average drug user shouldn't be able to touch, and the fact it is smoked by putting pcp on a cigarette or joint has a large impact on how it acts (smoking's the only level where the BA of anything is lower than IV, in most cases, some things are 100% BA by mouth). People here eat or snort that powder which in a gram contains maybe 3-8mg of PCP, depending on who cut the 20% pure putty with lactose, normally they aim for max profit and make 15 bags to 18 bags out of such. Taken this way, like eating a pure 3-meo-pcp or MXE dose isn't that dangerous. Unless you're one of those who vape anything you get in your possession and do asinine things like smoking oxycodone pills. Your brain should be okay if not over-abused.
 
Hi there! Decided to post my first experience with this material here as the thread hasn't been updated in a while.

Subject: 170Lbs male with about 10 years of extensive psychoactives research which includes: DMT, Mushrooms, 4-Aco-DMT, 4-Aco-MET, 4-HO-MiPT, LSD, AL-LAD, ETH-LAD, Mescaline, Allylescaline, Methallylescaline, 2C-P, bk-2C-B, MDMA, Amanitas, Salvia, Amphetamines and other stims. Previous trip was on 50mg 4-Aco-MET about two weeks ago. Almost empty stomach (light vegetarian breakfast taken) prior the experience.

Set & setting: Alone, at home, late at night, next day off, feeling comfortable, curious about experience.

Dose: 18mg (measured on a decent milligram scales with +/- 1mg) of 4-Aco-DET, encapsulated in gel cap.

I need to add that an hour prior to taking 4-Aco-DET, Ive taken couple of grams of Kava, 500mg of Phenibut and was sipping Kratom tea (about 6g of plant material) and in introspect I think Kratom may have something to do with the trip intensity being an inhibitor for stomach enzymes CYP3A4, CYP2D6, and CYP1A2 which metabolize drugs but not 100% sure if it has something to do with 4-Aco-DET, if there are anyone knowledgeable of that interaction, please comment!

Experience:

T=00:00 - Ingested a capsule with 18mg encapsulated 4-Aco-DET with some green tea.

T+00:20 - Some uneasy feeling, becoming hard to concentrate, but nothing much.

T+00:30 - Decided to smoke some cannabis to speed up the come up process (Im a daily smoker). I read most users get the noticeable effects by 20-30 minutes and I was nowhere near yet and was thinking of amping it up but decided to wait another 10 minutes.

T+00:40 - Effects building up in intensity and quite quickly. Im glad I didnt add more at this point. Im starting to feel afraid, ego feels threaten in a similar fashion as with DMT or strong mushies come-up but with lesser intensity. There is a definite feeling of hyperspace emerging. Feels stronger mentally and a lot weirder than 35mg of 4-HO-MiPT or 50mg of 4-Aco-MET so I take one sublingual tablet of Validol (old russian anxiolytic and anti-emetic that works for me almost instantly) and it helps me to ease in into the experience. There is no body load to speak of but on the come-up body feels being jumbled inside if that makes any sense. Also, the typical hyperspace coldness was becoming obvious at this point.

T+01:00 - Feels like Im starting to peak. It feels pretty serious and analytical with super heightened emotions processing, mind becoming very suggestive, it's easy to scare yourself if new to these experiences, also there is a feeling that I usually get with DMT or strong combos LSD or mushies, that my top head chakra is being open or simply that my mind/body becomes open for entities to see and/or communicate and even enter it. So I take out my tibetan bowls and start playing, also chanting some mantras. It definitely helps me feel more secure, confident and balanced as well as providing some insights on human mind workings and it's connection to the unseen spiritual world. Vibrations are felt by the whole body, not just by my ears, very impressive! Walked around the apartment, walking feels "drunk" and not very stable, looking at myself in a mirror feels creepy, face gets pretty distorted in some sinister way. Deciding to take a quick shower and it feels awesome! Euphoria is starting to build up slowly, shower feels "electric". As for visuals, there are some open eyes distortions, waviness and contrast amplification, not much closed eyes visuals with that dose but feels like If I concentrate long enough and take larger dose I might be completely sucked by the hyperspace with all it's visual intensity.

T+01:20 - Definitely peaking. Music is driving trip easily, organic and emotional stuff like Yo La Tengo feels very nice and producing deep content thoughts interconnections and insights easily. Emotional overdrive at some points felt. High mind suggestibility makes me want to try playing a videogame that doesnt have any violence in it, I choose my girlfriend's hipster game "Life is Strange" and it created a very bright and very real atmosphere, like I was seriously being there in Washington and Oregon, being that 18yo hipster girl.. Felt crazy real and immersive especially considering I was playing it on a projector at night with all the lights off. Playing a videogame also brings more insights into how simple our life actually is and how much we over-complicate and over-dramatize it. Strong time dilation. Feeling of "The Truth" inside me. Euphoria is building up in intensity. Definite +++ on Shulgin's scale and with only 18mg! Amazing!..
There is a weird temperature disregulation - some parts of a body being very cold and some being pretty hot but not too uncomfortable.

T+02:00 - Peak is subsiding and being replaced with some of the best afterglow I've ever experienced! Very empathetic and euphoric, I even say it out loud to myself: "This stuff is 10 out 10!" Thinking of the people who I am closed to and texting a few of them. Strong desire to be a better man, to resolve old issues and work on my bad habits. Feels very very therapeutic! I see a huge potential for self-work, spiritual work and guided psychotherapy with this compound. Yesterday's problems becoming just a necessary points in life to achieve a greater understanding, everything is crystal clear and glowing with meaning!

T+03:00 - Still rolling very nicely, at this point more cannabis is smoked, prolonging and smoothing the effects. Very strange urge to redose as soon as I can, thinking of a next day trip but dismiss the idea knowing I need to be at work the following day and receptors tolerance as well, but it was the only psychedelic so far (of what I've tried) that made me feel that way, to repeat almost immediately.
Walking is still poorly coordinated - walked outside to meet the sunrise, and living in a quiet mountain town, it was amazing! Made me feel very peaceful and content. Still some color and shape enhancement going on. I thought if someone would see me, they'd think Im drunk and high so driving/riding would not be a good idea on this stuff imo.

T+03:30 - Feeling very hungry so I prepare some food. It tastes amazing, the taste is definitely enhanced more than just from weed, a bottle of aftertrip beer also feels very nice! Not feeling bodily stimulated but flooding of thoughts and ideas is present and its not letting me to think of sleeping. Emotional waves are subsiding now.

T+04:30 - Smoked more cannabis, took 150mg of 5-HTP with 100mg L-Theanine and took a hot bath to facilitate sleep. In about half an hour felt asleep and had very vivid and meaningful sleep. Upon waking up felt a bit foggy but my daily nootrpics stack along with mate tea cleared it away in a matter of couple hours.

Conclusion:
I found 4-Aco-DET to be unique, weird but beautiful, and very useful compound on par with the classic psychedelics but with even higher mind suggestibility and hyperspace emerging. There is a definite possibility of entity contact on higher dosages as well as ego melting, anxiety and possibility of a "bad" trip for some folks. I ranked it high among the very best but caution must be exercised, set and setting seem pretty important with it as well. Definite visual activity at even 18mg. Best if used for introspective work in a quiet atmosphere, alone or with close friends imo. I would recommend it to anyone looking for a meaningful revelatory trip but once again it made my mind highly suggestive, more so than most of the stuff Ive tried.

Also I have a theory that each psychoactive compound is of a different spiritual energy such as LSD being an "Air", DMT being a "Water", Mushrooms and Mescaline being "Earth" or "Fire", 4-Aco-MET being an "Air" and so on.. So 4-Aco-DET felt like it has "Water" spirit with some "Fire" undertones to it, but further testing is needed! lol

Thanks for reading and stay safe friends! :)
 
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psy997 said:
Wow, thank you for that, Volsam. Great report :D
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^^^Im glad to share my experiences and even more glad that someone liked it! Thank you ^.^

After not so yielding 4-HO-DPT trip two days ago Ive decided to use 4-Aco-DET to satisfy my psychedelic "hunger" :)
Considering the possible tolerance from previous day's trip but still being cautious since its my second trial with this compound, I decided to take 20mg dissolved in real lemonade to promote a quicker absorption. It dissolved easily and had a specific "tasty" bitterness to it, the one you want to try more and more as you trip harder :)
Phenibut synergizes very nicely with it, adding more euphoria and smoothness, I also liked it with preloading with Piracetam (not Aniracetam or any other noots though).
Despite some evident receptors tolerance, the trip was euphoric and insightful, just like the first time I've tried it. So Im starting to make a conclusion that the experience with this compound is quite repeatable with similar set and setting which is very important for me as I like to know what to expect. But it doesnt mean it can't throw you all the way out there, just up the dose a few mg's and you'll get a lot more!...)
I feel a feminine power in this molecule, gentle, yet affirming and persistent but don't let it fool you into thinking it is a lightweight action psych - it definitely has the power to bend and dismantle your poor ego!..
In retrospect, I liked 4-Aco-DET more when encapsulated - it felt more concentrated in power and time.
Also, I feel it has a "Water" spirit more defined than anything else, being near water allows for a greater trip entrance imo (yet to try it on the lake/river/ocean).

Conclusion: Ive fallen in love with this one. The best RC I've tried so far in the last 5 years.
 
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I find 4-AcO-DET to be quite powerful and different from the other 4-sub-Ts I've tried. For me it's been pretty serious, not nearly as lighthearted as others. It can be quite edgy and cold, but also can be very warm. I wouldn't call it euphoric for me but it can produce intense euphoria simply due to the profundity of its effects (the same way you can get really euphoric when sober because a significant thing just happened). It goes really deep into my psyche, I tend to confront things I had been ignoring or hiding from myself. I generally choose a different tryptamine, but occasionally I like a high-dose trip with this because they have always ended up being cleansing and meaningful, even though at times they are confronting and unsettling.
 
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