The Big & Dandy 1P-LSD Thread, Volume 1

[Transform]

In keeping with recent action in PD, as a very novel drug we will be removing social discussion from this thread to make it easier to use it as a resource on the compound.

This includes but is not limited to posts expressing excitement about the compound, how much one wants to try it, or how much one enjoys [drug y]. Vendor discussion will, as always, be met with warnings.

The structure is in the lead post and can also be seen here:

 

[theacidtest]

If this is such a close analogue of ALD-52 would it have the same degradation issue i.e. readily undergoing hydrolysis to LSD-25?

 

[zombywoof]

Would you say a similar potency to LSD itself then? (if you've had the dosage of your blotter tested before or at least dealt with enough accurately dosed blotters over your time tripping to have a good dosage estimate by trip strength)

My experiences were 100ug LSD ~= 150-170ug AL-LAD ~= 175ug LSZ in terms of how strong the trip felt for me, albeit I had tolerance when I tried LSZ and actually expect it to be LSD > LSZ > AL-LAD.

Couldnt really say as i never knew what dose i got with lsd you just took what was about at the time. I also had tolerance from trip with pargy lad if thats what it was a fortnight earlier and it being new i had it at the back of my mind how long is this going to last but from memory i have had acid tabs that were not as strong like the pink panthers circa mid 80s and others like the superman early eighties probably the best acid i ever had was far stronger

 

[Transform]

If this is such a close analogue of ALD-52 would it have the same degradation issue i.e. readily undergoing hydrolysis to LSD-25?

It might have the same tendency to hydrolyse but it is a myth that it readily undergoes hydrolysis.

All existing science (eg the use of acetyl as an indole protecting group) indicates that it stabilises the conjugated structure and is resistant to hydrolysis in standard conditions. When exposed to high or low pH it is likely to hydrolyse.

 

[jason7]

Interesting development. This is the first I've heard of this. Yeah, it should hydrolyze off to LSD pretty easily. If not in the human body then at least you could hydrolyze it yourself. You would just have to keep it away from light as it's hydrolyzing.

This is great because we know that the company that brought us AL-LAD and LSZ had it competently made. We really don't know what we're getting from black market LSD sources. I haven't been impressed by the acid I bought in recent months. Pretty much no visuals at all beyond simple visual disturbances and haloes. No trails whatsoever. How can you have acid with no trails at all? I don't know what the hell the stuff is. It comes from reputable vendors but it's not much like the acid I used to do a few decades ago. It has no taste on the blotters and lasts the right amount of time for LSD but the trips are crappy. I just hope this new stuff isn't outrageously expensive. That would suck.

 

[Boognish]

I'm no chemist by any means, but this seems really closely related to LSD. Would this be considered an analog in the US?

 

[theacidtest]

I'm no chemist by any means, but this seems really closely related to LSD. Would this be considered an analog in the US?

Pretty much any RC can be considered an analog of something in the US. It only becomes a crime when it's intended for human consumption. But anyway, this thread isn't for legal discussion. Back to the subject at hand.

I'm intrigued by the pro drug theory, but it seems that the couple of reports we have are reporting a duration of around 10 hours, slightly shorter than LSD. This compound could quite possibly be active on its own.

 

[sekio]

This would definitely be considered an analogue of LSD and also if exposed to moisture will form LSD. Somehow I don't think any country that banned LSD would treat this as legal.

 

[Delsyd]

It also seems to kick in pretty rapidly, 10 min or so in Si's report, suggesting it may be active on its own.

 

[sekio]

Or that the body rapidly converts it to LSD.

 

[jason7]

Or that the body rapidly converts it to LSD.

Yeah but LSD doesn't hit you in 10 minutes at 100 µg. So it appears that 1P-LSD is active even before it hydrolyzes and is faster acting.

 

[jason7]

The acyl derivatives do seem to remain intact in the body because the patent for ALD-52 and related compounds (US 2,810,723) says that they have some different effects from LSD. They are also better in several ways and may actually be good for you. They're much less toxic and hyperthermic, and may make you saner, which is the reverse of LSD. That means 1P-LSD will be banned shortly of course. Stock up on the new miracle compound while you can.

The new acyl derivatives of the present invention are stable to dilute acids. On the other hand, when the said acyl derivatives are heated with aqueous sodium carbonate solution or are allowed to stand with alkali, the acyl group is hydrolytically split off.

The new products of the invention possess pharmacodynamic properties which are generally similar to those of the corresponding nonacylated lysergic acid derivatives, and can therefore generally be used like the latter. In some cases, improved properties result from the acylation. Thus, the serotonin inhibition action of lysergic acid diethylamide is increased 2 1/2 fold by conversion thereof to the corresponding 1-acetyl derivative according to the present invention, while at the same time the toxicity is decreased to about one-tenth that of the non-acetylated compound. Moreover, while lysergic acid diethylamide results in a temperature increase upon administration of large doses in the rat, this action is entirely lacking in the 1-acetyl-lysergic acid diethylamide which, like Hydergin, has only a temperature lowering action. The new compounds are thus useful as pharmaceutica. They are useful in the treatment of peripheral vascular disease and hypertension as well at psychic disturbances. They may advantageously be administered orally or by intramuscular injection.

https://www.google.com/patents/US2810723

 

[The Chronic]

Good info above, i wondered about its similarity to ALD52 which has lower toxicity (not that LSD25 is very toxic) causes less of a rise in body temp and inhibits seretonin to a greater degree, but i wouldn't rely on the few reports going around for it being active in ten minutes and that being a sign its different from LSD25, i can often feel the onset of a psychedelic within 15 minutes

This is from one of the posters over at the shroomery who has contact with Dave Nichols, confirming that 1P-LSD must be a pro-drug for LSD due to its activity

Kman1898 said:
Got some info from Dave. Definitely a prodrug as it would be inactive otherwise.

I am sure that the 1-propionyl would also hydrolyze off of an indole, but I don't know whether in vivo conditions would work. In a chemistry lab, you can get off an N-benzoyl, so an N-propionyl will probably come off too. But in the body? I don't know the answer to that. The compound would not be active as the N-propionyl however. Way that LSD docks into the 5-HT2A receptor, the indole NH hydrogen bonds to serine 5.46. With the propionyl, it won't fit into the receptor.

 

[Si Dread]

It also seems to kick in pretty rapidly, 10 min or so in Si's report, suggesting it may be active on its own.

Anyone who knows me knows that I'm extra sensitive to chemicals. I feel the lowest dose, & I feel it first. 200ug reports will be forthcoming, not from me, not for awhile anyway. That was enough for a wee while lol

Anyone new to tripping & inclined to light trips might be a bit surprised by 100ug if they were used to a single tab of Al-Lad. Anyone used to 100ug or more of genuine LSD would have little trouble handling 100ug of this material, in my opinion. I suspect these will be released at 125ug per tab, so I'd be advising a half tab for a newbie or for us light-weghts, for starters. Hardheads will probably be cracking along at the 150ug/200ug mark. Again this is all based on one staggered 3x25ug dose, & one 100ug single hit trial. I'm pretty certain that if we go only by strength of material by weight, 1P-LSD is stronger than both Al-Lad & LSz by a fair bit. & it did certianly come on alot quicker for me, than Al-Lad, which first alerts at about 25-35minuts.

 

[Incunabula]

First, The onset of LSD can be anything from 10 minutes to 1 hour, I've even tried up to 2 hours for real effects.
And duration can be anything between 6 and 12 hours, with varying batches.

Why this is so isn't to be discussed here, because this topic has its own threads (and everybody has their own opinions about it, from polymorphism to set and setting)

Point is, we can't extrapolate anything what so ever from Si ingwe having had a 10 min come up once.......

I think that what we will see with 1-P-LSD vs LSD, is the same phenomenon we've seen with 4-AcO-DMT vs 4-HO-DMT.
Some people will swear they are feeling distinct subjective differences in the trip, while other people will feel that they are virtually indistinguishable. This also seems to have been the case with ALD-52 in the 60'ies.

jason7, it would be nice if you could supply a source for your quote.

 

[Bagseed]

Good info above, i wondered about its similarity to ALD52 which has lower toxicity (not that LSD25 is very toxic) causes less of a rise in body temp and inhibits seretonin to a greater degree, but i wouldn't rely on the few reports going around for it being active in ten minutes and that being a sign its different from LSD25, i can often feel the onset of a psychedelic within 15 minutes

This is from one of the posters over at the shroomery who has contact with Dave Nichols, confirming that 1P-LSD must be a pro-drug for LSD due to its activity

if this Nichols quote is genuine, this is very interesting!

 

[NMR-Chemist]

First, The onset of LSD can be anything from 10 minutes to 1 hour, I've even tried up to 2 hours for real effects.
And duration can be anything between 6 and 12 hours, with varying batches.

Why this is so isn't to be discussed here, because this topic has its own threads (and everybody has their own opinions about it, from polymorphism to set and setting)

Point is, we can't extrapolate anything what so ever from Si ingwe having had a 10 min come up once.......

I think that what we will see with 1-P-LSD vs LSD, is the same phenomenon we've seen with 4-AcO-DMT vs 4-HO-DMT.
Some people will swear they are feeling distinct subjective differences in the trip, while other people will feel that they are virtually indistinguishable. This also seems to have been the case with ALD-52 in the 60'ies.

In my experience with lysergic amides the form of dosing is extremely important for the onset time. With liquid dosage I usually come up withing 30 min, 45 max, while it takes me 1,5 - 2 h with blotters. Sugar cubes are somewhere in-between. With really high doses of LSD in solution (250-350 µg) I felt the first effects after 10 minutes! With 200 µg blotters it took at least 45...

I don't think 1P-LSD is a prodrug. It shouldn't be compared to 4-AcO/4-HO tryptamines because esters are WAY WAY easier to hydrolyse in vivo than amides. Just think of the diethylamide moiety in the molecule! However, it's long action might be partially explainable by some degree of hydrolysis in the 1-position. Whichever it is, I would really love to give this one a try. It sounds very promising...

 

[Si Dread]

no chance, this shit is undrescribed in any literature I can find, & I've been searching for weeks.

It's on a par with LSD as far as effects & duration go. It's wieght for weight more than twice as strong as Al-Lad, & as far as I can tell, at least a third as strong as LSz.

No-one knows whats this stuff's going to sell for yet, but I doubt it will retail for more than Al-Lad or LSz did. If the price remains similar, the vendor will have plenty of money to apply to new research...

 

[Doldrugs]

I don't think we can say it's not an LSD prodrug because of a fast come up or a 10 hour duration. 10 is pretty close to 12, and the duration of any psych can feel longer or shorter depending on the day, the person, the dose, etc.

 

[The Chronic]

I don't think we can say it's not an LSD prodrug because of a fast come up or a 10 hour duration. 10 is pretty close to 12, and the duration of any psych can feel longer or shorter depending on the day, the person, the dose, etc.

Exactly, plus the fact it's active confirms it is a pro-drug as otherwise it wouldn't fit into the receptor site

I'm not asking for specific price info here, but is it reasonable? I'm hoping this moves to the US. also could someone do me the favor of drawing up a few similarities and differences between this, LSD and the other 2 RC lysergamides?

The price is reasonable considering there's only a small batch available with no bulk on offer, you can currently only order 3 blotters or a 5 strip... prices are what you'd expect for such small amounts

I don't think much of this batch will make it to the US as the vendor is only shipping to UK & Poland, i'd expect a larger batch will come through and spread further

The other 2 Lysergamides were experientially unique whereas 1P-LSD is a pro drug for LSD so it should be exactly the same, i could only theorize is that it might metabolize differently and have slightly different (longer?) effects