The Big & Bangin' Miscellaneous Chemistry/Pharmacology Odds N' Ends Thread: Part 3

[sekio]

It's a tome about three or four inches thick as a hardback book. I'm pretty sure it's a little more involved than high school biology.

 

[aced126]

Although Molecular Biology of the Cell is very good, it doesn't have that much biochemistry in it, and in fact one could even start reading it without much organic chemistry knowledge.

Biochemistry by Stryer, on the other hand, is a much better book if you want to see chemistry happening in the context of biological systems.

A good foundation in organic chemistry will allow you to get through a lot of the chapters in Stryer fairly quickly. You'll need to know in particular a lot about oxidation and reduction, and aldol reactions - these are like the 2 biggest reactions nature will use to transform one molecule to another.

If I were you I would get both books and keep switching between the two, reading what interests you.

 

[neurotic]

Although Molecular Biology of the Cell is very good, it doesn't have that much biochemistry in it, and in fact one could even start reading it without much organic chemistry knowledge.

Biochemistry by Stryer, on the other hand, is a much better book if you want to see chemistry happening in the context of biological systems.

You hit the nail on the head, that's exactly what I was getting at. I did glance over the first parts of MB of the C and although it might be quite involved as sekio says it didn't seem to go in depth at the chemistry aspect — as you said.

So thank you for the suggestion. I'll just wait till I'm a little bit further down in plain organic chemistry with Janice's book and then I'll jump into Stryer's. Def reading both books too.

 

[neurotic]

I am interested in the long-term storage of chems — here, 4-FA particularly — in solutions proper for IV use. More elaborately,

So I have a bunch of 4-FA, and without a proper scale, I am forced to go with volumetric dosing. I would gladly choose vodka were it not for the fact that my ROA is mainlining. I thought of a few workarounds and would like y'all's opinion:

— Dissolve in a 5% alcohol solution made from vodka and water, keep in fridge. What I'm not sure here is: is it too much water? Is 5% alcohol too much to be IV'ed? — I could at least conceive slightly alcoholic pharmaceutical IV preparations.

— Dissolve in vodka, when going to use — this is going to be un-often enough for it to not be a turn-off —, evap off vodka or most of it, replace with appropriate amount of water — 4-FA doses are big enough so that they should be visible. I'm thinking here no appreciable amount of salted 4-FA should be lost though I ask just to be sure...

 

[immad]

Why not save yourself the hassle and just buy a scale?

 

[neurotic]

Getting a proper mg scale is not exactly ridiculously simple for me actually.

I'm in a third world country and the best I can get locally is either a high-end piece from a labware store costing roughly the price of a popular car or an AWS-100, a centigram scale, for an insultingly inflated price. Granted the latter would suffice for compounds such as 4-FA, but I'd rather have a more precise and fairly priced piece suitable for any chemical I might stumble onto: I do intend to buy, say, a GEMINI-20 off of Amazon in the relatively near future, just have to figure out how international stuff works there. I see the irony, but in the meantime... and in any case none of the options above are a hassle for me.

 

[aced126]

I am interested in the long-term storage of chems — here, 4-FA particularly — in solutions proper for IV use. More elaborately,

So I have a bunch of 4-FA, and without a proper scale, I am forced to go with volumetric dosing. I would gladly choose vodka were it not for the fact that my ROA is mainlining. I thought of a few workarounds and would like y'all's opinion:

— Dissolve in a 5% alcohol solution made from vodka and water, keep in fridge. What I'm not sure here is: is it too much water? Is 5% alcohol too much to be IV'ed? — I could at least conceive slightly alcoholic pharmaceutical IV preparations.

— Dissolve in vodka, when going to use — this is going to be un-often enough for it to not be a turn-off —, evap off vodka or most of it, replace with appropriate amount of water — 4-FA doses are big enough so that they should be visible. I'm thinking here no appreciable amount of salted 4-FA should be lost though I ask just to be sure...

Depends on the volume of alcohol you end up IVing. If you IV less than maybe 5mL of pure ethanol, you're probably fine.

 

[neurotic]

Overall amount of ethanol injected should be less than that — I use 1ml syringes...

What about the concentration however? I imagine 40% ethanol straight into the veins shouldn't be much healthy, seeing what that stuff does to the lining of your stomach...

 

[aced126]

Overall amount of ethanol injected should be less than that — I use 1ml syringes...

What about the concentration however? I imagine 40% ethanol straight into the veins shouldn't be much healthy, seeing what that stuff does to the lining of your stomach...

Hmm, I'm not sure about concentration actually. Maybe wait for another response. I know that some benzodiazepines are administered IV in a solution of ethanol, but these are infusions over a period of time. Also, here's a study testing the efficacy of IV ethanol for alcohol-dependent patients.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15537562

 

[sekio]

IV injection of alcohol solutions of any sort is a no-no because of their hypotonicity: needs adjustment with salt, sugar or the like to make it vein-tolerable (and these tend to decrease the solubility of organics in ethanol/water mixes!)

For most compounds, 4FA included, dissolving in bacteriostatic water (distilled water + 1% benzyl alcohol) is more than enough, plus storage in the dark and cold between 5-10C. Esters like cocaine, heroin, methylphenidate & analogs should be kept dry and reconstituted with basteriostatic water only when they are needed, to avoiid decomposition via hydrolysis.

 

[Solipsis]

Dammit, once again I'm trying to calibrate my mettler toledo AE-160 and it's giving me the error after I give it a 100 mg weight.

Not sure how to proceed, I forgot how I solved it last time(s), if it was the same issue then... but I seem to recall something similar.

I seem to be 0.1% off.

 

[sekio]

Check the batteries. Most scale bugs I've seen are due to flat batteries. And also don't breathe, have loud music going, or move while weighing/calibrating.

 

[aced126]

Just saw this for sale and apparently it's a psychedelic. Anyone seen this before? I've never seen this novel sort of structure before.

 

[Solipsis]

Check the batteries. Most scale bugs I've seen are due to flat batteries. And also don't breathe, have loud music going, or move while weighing/calibrating.

Thanks but it's AC powered, a nice classic obese sub-mg weighing piece of machinery.. Yes I realize how subtle drafts, vibrations etc can influence it - i got it nice and level on a sturdy counter top, windows closed, silence, not moving.

Right after I give it the 100 mg weight it is asking for (CAL 100), it tries to measure and is giving me a CAL ERR, and I don't think it's because it doesn't know what to say.

Just saw this for sale and apparently it's a psychedelic. Anyone seen this before? I've never seen this novel sort of structure before.

for the record - asked in PD and identified as U-47700.

 

[sekio]

Soli, have you tried monkeying with the integration/stability detection settings on the scale? I've gotten temperamental milligram scales working again by just adjusting the "sensitivity" a few Arbitrary Units in the right direction. And the cal weight -according to the manual - is apparently supposed to be 100 grams, not 100mg - maybe that is why you are having trouble?

I don't think I've seen a scale that has the option for an external foot pedal either.


aced, compounds of that sort are these curious novel opioids developed at Upjohn some time in the 80s, however many of them have more activity at the kappa receptor than is classically tolerable in an analgesic. AH7921 and U47700 are the mu-selective cmpds that the RC guys picked up. AH7921 was not anything to write home about but I'm told U47700 is much more "abusable" i.e. rapid rise in brain concentrations followin administration not unlike oxycodone or fentanyl.

 

[Solipsis]

Oh shiet, i think you saved the day with that one.. it probably IS 100 grams that's required now that I think about it, it typically is a weight at the maximum of the range of the scale, which of course makes most sense in terms of physics / significant numbers. (Well, 'probably'.., you consulted the manual no less, what's to speculate?)

The strange thing is, I thought I remembered successfully calibrating this thing before and I very well may have as I used to have more access to necessary items etc, and yeah I recall reading the manual myself. Furthermore the very legit russian calibrating weight set I have on hand "conveniently" stops at 50 grams (wump wump wuuump).

Can I somehow use the 21 gram weight of my soul to calibrate? :')
(the answer is yes, it would involve a setup where you would weigh me before and after voting on Donald Trump for experimental purposes)

I think I don't feel like spending a lot of money on a true 100g weight, a chinese piece of shit that weighs a 100 grams will have to do, if the error on it is 3 mg then for my purposes that is probably fine wouldn't you say? I think these days the most potent substance I'd be weighing on it would be something like DOM. I'd say the scale wouldn't fuck up too much on account of the 0,003%, what do you think?

P.S. yes I changed those settings, but in light of the above that all seems in vain.. lol i fucked up pretty good there

 

[sekio]

Soli, if you're up for it, you can send me a PM with some shipping details and I'll send you a calibration weight(s) - either 1x100 or 2x50, and I'll even double check them on my 4-decimal scale for you. I think I have some extras around, and you really don't need several dozen of them, just a few.

 

[kouya]

I figured this'd probably be the place to post this. Playing around with ChemSpider, I've "discovered" a few potential RCs and was wondering whether there was a particular reason some of them wouldn't be good:

• MDIPA - Comparing iso-amp to amp, it'd probably just last longer and be a bit weaker?
• 4-MMAR (4-Methylmethaminorex) - Would probably be expensive to make because of the norephedrine ban.
• βk-MDAT - ?
• 4-IMC - 4-Iodomethcathinone - ?
• 4-FC - 4-Fluorocathinone - ?

 

[sekio]

What is iso-amp? beta-methylphenethylamine?

4-MMAR has been made before I think, but not on a large clandestine scale. I think 4,4-DMMAR has been sold though!

BK-MDAT I thought was known and crappy.

4-IMC, like 4-Bromomethcathinone, is expected to probably be a triple monoamine releaser/reuptake inhibitor, however its amphetamine relative 4-bromoamphetamine is a selective serotonergic neurotoxin. All the 4-substituted haloamphetamines are except 4-fluoro. So people tend to stay away from the 4-halocathinones (except 4-FMC).

"Plain" cathinones are not as stable nor as potent as methcathinones, so they aren't typically sold.

 

[Solipsis]

MDIPA makes it sound like methylenedioxy-N-isopropylamphetamine, MDIP which yes is weak: https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal108.shtml

It's certainly possible that 4-halocathinones can't really be compared to haloamps but I still wouldn't touch them with a 20 ft pole, aside from 4-FMC indeed, I like fleph a lot but haven't indulged in like 8 years or something.

^^ pm'ed sekio for that mighty nice offer

Question: do metabolites of known and FDA approved drugs have to pass every and all trials again, even if you'd be prepared to prescribe them at a dose no higher than the amount of metabolite produced by safe dosages of the parent? I guess they do since you can never know how the parent attenuates certain toxicity or heavily competes for a sort of further metabolism that would produce greater quantities of a toxic further metabolite?