• Current Events & Politics
    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

The Big and Senseless Mass Shooting Thread

your argument kind of sounds like as if there is no point trying to reduce carbon emissions, because we have no hard data that stopping pollution at this point, could have any statistical impact on the levels of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere.

whereas i think, hey theres this thing we can do and it doesn't hurt us, and it definitely isn't going to hurt the environment, it might even help it. lets try that.
 
No, my argument is there's no point in doing something about climate change that had already been tried and was shown to have no effect and we should begin working on a new strategy rather than repeat the old one.
 
Let's use the state of New York, then. It has a few million LESS people than the country of Australia.

NY state gun homicide rate: 2.7
Australia gun homicide rate: .11

This discounts suicides and accidental deaths.

Considering that NY has some pretty strict gun control laws... I'd say it's just cultural differences.
 
Arci, contribute or gtfo :)



You know there was a "good guy with a gun" present during the shooting, right?

An ex marine. He decided not to get involved for several smart reasons, which included his ignorance of where SWAT was and didn't want to be considered the shooter. There are so many variables in the mass shooting phenomena that you can't pin it on one or two causes. You can't pin it on open access to firearms alone, but you can't discount it either.

Cant blame him. All Im saying is it needs to be known and advertised that concealed carry is allowed on campus. These people are cowards if they know multiple people are packing Id venture to say they will shoot up a gun free zone instead.
 
Your delusional if you think a sign is going to stop a suicidal/homicidal person from committing murder. These people may be many things, but
coward isn't a word I would use to describe them.
 
Let's use the state of New York, then. It has a few million LESS people than the country of Australia.

NY state gun homicide rate: 2.7
Australia gun homicide rate: .11

This discounts suicides and accidental deaths.

Yes, but again, Australia isn't the US. Australia is a small island nation that had even at its peak a tiny fraction of the number of guns available in the USA. It also never had the confounding factor of a right to bear arms in its constitution. Have you seen any studies saying that Australian-style buyback is even feasible in the USA? Because I've only seen studies saying that it isn't. (1)(2)
 
Cant blame him. All Im saying is it needs to be known and advertised that concealed carry is allowed on campus. These people are cowards if they know multiple people are packing Id venture to say they will shoot up a gun free zone instead.

A rational person would yes but would a nutjob hell bent on gunning as many people down before he got killed himself care? I seriously doubt it because he had to know he wasn't getting out of there alive.
 
Yes, but again, Australia isn't the US. Australia is a small island nation that had even at its peak a tiny fraction of the number of guns available in the USA. It also never had the confounding factor of a right to bear arms in its constitution. Have you seen any studies saying that Australian-style buyback is even feasible in the USA? Because I've only seen studies saying that it isn't. (1)(2)

I've heard Australia had low firearm crime rates before they even enacted heavier gun restrictions.
 
Relative to the US, that's true. But there were never proportionally as many gun owners either.

Fucking gun crime gun crime gun crime. Whhhhhhhy must it always be gun crime. Why is dying by a gun somehow so much worse than dying by being stabbed or bludgeoned or blown up.

I don't understand people. :(
 
The question is would things be any worse if they did try a buy back scheme?
In a purely theoretical sense, you're right, it would get some guns off the street and probably save a small number of lives. However, it's no use even considering it because it is an impossible idea. Where is the money going to come from to buy back all of these guns? How are the supporters of the 2nd Amendment going to ever accept this? When you consider that the effectiveness of buyback programs (especially in the USA) is dubious at best, it becomes clear that a gun buyback is not a workable solution, economically, politically, or practically.
 
A rational person would yes but would a nutjob hell bent on gunning as many people down before he got killed himself care? I seriously doubt it because he had to know he wasn't getting out of there alive.
I agree all I'm saying is it couldn't hurt. Even if at the very least they didn't advertise gun free zones ffs
 
Considering that NY has some pretty strict gun control laws... I'd say it's just cultural differences.

One of those differences being gun control. Busty, how many massacres were there in and prior to 1996 in the 90s alone in AUS? And how many since?

We can address income inequality, social mobility, etc, but then we'd be a bunch of socialists.

Yes, but again, Australia isn't the US.

I'm just running with some one else's argument here.

Australia is a small island nation that had even at its peak a tiny fraction of the number of guns available in the USA.

So the number of guns available DO have an affect gun related crime.

Have you seen any studies saying that Australian-style buyback is even feasible in the USA? Because I've only seen studies saying that it isn't.

I'm not arguing that this is a good idea.


I've heard Australia had low firearm crime rates before they even enacted heavier gun restrictions.

source?
 
So the number of guns available DO have an affect gun related crime.

I think they clearly do. If we were to go back in time and get all these guns out of the country, I don't think there is any doubt that there would be less gun crime.

I think maybe we should try to define what "common sense gun laws" we think would be useful. I think we might all actually be able to come out with some agreement on this point. Increased background checks and maybe gun safety courses in order to to obtain a permit are reasonable measures to put into place, I believe. I don't think these measures will solve the issue however, nor will any level of strictly gun control. The reality is that we live in this country with 300 million guns and regular shootings and we have to look at using force and tactical thinking as part of any solution that is to be effective.
 
Relative to the US, that's true. But there were never proportionally as many gun owners either.

Fucking gun crime gun crime gun crime. Whhhhhhhy must it always be gun crime. Why is dying by a gun somehow so much worse than dying by being stabbed or bludgeoned or blown up.

I don't understand people. :(
Well, if you look at lots of the US-centric threads that have come up in this subforum in the last couple of years, guns have figured quite heavily. This isn't my bias, or any reformist emphasis, but surely one of the reasons there have been so many contentious shootings in the states in recent years - by police or private citizens - is the proliferation of firearms in the community.

Can people be killed in other ways? Of course they can.
Why is such an emphasis placed on guns? I would suggest that it has a lot to do with their efficacy in killing, from a distance - and that they really have no other purpose.
I think that rather than downplaying 'violence' more generally, it is simply stating facts to discuss gun violence in and of itself.

Any consideration of an Australian-style byback scheme would be pretty unlikely in the United States, but using that to suggest that no gun reforms are possible or worth attempting seems like throwing the baby out with the proverbial bathwater, to me at least.

For the record, i have never suggested that particular scheme would work in america - only that it didnt have a particularly deleterious effect in Australia, and that regulating ownership of firearms is possible.

"Why is it always gun crime?"
Can you honestly envision what took place in Umpqua being possible if the killer was armed with a knife, a baseball bat or the like?
Perhaps if he was, the questions and discussions would be different; but he was armed with guns - so people are talking about guns (amongst other things).
 
Why not, 8 children were murdered in a spree killing in Cairns just under a year ago with a knife.

I've already gone over again and again why focusing on gun crime doesn't make sense. Because it doesn't account for and seems to just assume that reducing gun crime is a good thing no matter what the wide effects are or no matter what it does to the overall homicide statistics.

I've gone over it again and again. Clearly nobody cares. So like I said. I give up. Either no one cares, or they didn't read it, or whatever. Point is I've heard no rational defense for ignoring everything but gun crime. And I'm sick of repeating myself only to be ignored or dismissed with illogical reasoning. You win. I lose. Clearly whatever the reason, people aren't interested in looking at the broader picture. Ironically, for a group that considers its opponents gun obsessed, an argument could be made that they they are too.
 
Top