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The Big and Dandy NBOMe-2C-C (25C-NBOMe) Thread

Chlorides and simple alcohols are not really friends. Iodides are typically soluble in all lower alcohols as well as acetone. I don't know if this is due to the nucleophilicity of iodine, or what, but the hydroiodide is probably soluble in ethanol, isopropanol, and acetone.

I'm totally hinting at something here, by the way. Just because I think that making things more convenient for people is a really cool thing to do.
 
MattPsy said:
It doesn't dissolve very well in IPA as the HCl salt, nor acetone, certainly not anywhere near as much as 20mg/mL... Even 4mg will not dissolve in 1mL of warm IPA. The freebase dissolves okay in IPA, sorry, I don't remember the figures from the rough experiments, only that it works far better.
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Hey MattPsy, thanks for the all the invaluable information. I share your concern about the potential for very serious results from irresponsible dosing, but we should also be realistic about its availability and how many of the purchasers are going to invest in a ug scale... so in the interest of harm reduction, would this approach be significantly accurate/safe?

A. All venders should take greatest responsibility to accurately label the compound and its volume

B. If no ug scale is available, what concentration and solvent do you recommend for 25C and 25D for nasal delivery (like putting the liquid in a nose spray bottle and working out the percentages to get something like 100ug per spray?) and for vaporising where a small amount like 50ug per .1ml is evaporated onto a medium (herb) and then vaporising the medium?

C. In either method, liquid or accurate scale, tiny tiny doses are slowly tested from what is believed to be 1ug up.

With correct details and followed very carefully, is this safe enough to make exploration not to be more dangerous then a drive to the airport?

Also do I understand correctly that simply adding some lecithin to the solution increase potency 2-4x?
 
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A. Vendors do not have an exactly shining history of providing stated quantities, commonly leading to unintentional overdoses.

B. For nasal delivery, water with surfactant is probably your best bet. I wouldn't want to sniff up droplets of concentrated alcohols. Maybe you feel differently. If on herb, smoking does not work, in experiments maybe only 10% of dose survived the heat, maybe vaporising off herb will work, I do not know.

C. I can't tell you whether taking research weapons-grade hallucinogens with a minimum of human study is safe for you, or safer than driving to your airport. Driving is pretty dangerous though huh. Horrible to think about.

It is SPECULATED that lecithin may work because it is also a surfactant like polysorbate 80 (the one that was actually tried). Also I can't guarantee that it will be 2-4x. This is why it is called research.
 
"
C. I can't tell you whether taking research weapons-grade hallucinogens with a minimum of human study is safe for you, or safer than driving to your airport. Driving is pretty dangerous though huh. Horrible to think about.
"

probably the best thing ive seen on these boards in a while.


&thanks atara
 
I'll be sampling this compound in the next few weeks. Will report back then.

Lot's of great discussion in here--keep it up everyone :)
 
A. Vendors do not have an exactly shining history of providing stated quantities, commonly leading to unintentional overdoses.

- fingers crossed they have learnt from the past too. I know our safety is each our own responsibility but how could a vender live with themselves not taking such a role very seriously... but of course we're all human and hence the requirement to test from the tiniest amount upwards

B. For nasal delivery, water with surfactant is probably your best bet. I wouldn't want to sniff up droplets of concentrated alcohols. Maybe you feel differently. If on herb, smoking does not work, in experiments maybe only 10% of dose survived the heat, maybe vaporising off herb will work, I do not know.

- but don't they (2C-NBOMe's) dissolve poorly in water? or will the surfactant fix that? What concentration would you recommend?

C. I can't tell you whether taking research weapons-grade hallucinogens with a minimum of human study is safe for you, or safer than driving to your airport. Driving is pretty dangerous though huh. Horrible to think about.

- ok how about I put it this way, if you didn't have access to a scale, would you be comfortable approaching dosing in this manor?

and "weapons-grade hullucinogen" really geez, crazy military talk but I guess it brings homes the reality, lets hope it never actually behaves like a weapon...

Thanks again, you've been invaluable on this topic!
 
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So what can be used to dissolve this chem for evaporation? I want to try vaping 25C as it sounds amazing, but I wouldn't want to eyeball such miniscule doses even with a single mg scale. From reports it sounds like vaping is the way to go. It sounds like a fairly benign compound, although the lack of research doesn't tell us much, but I haven't heard of any bodyload associated with 25C.

MattPsy how long is the peak when vaped? Have you tried vaping repeated doses in one session? Is there tolerance from vaping like there is from other ROA? It would be nice to vape a small amount and work up the dosage if tolerance doesn't come into play.
 
nuke said:
There are reports of strong potentiation (2-4x) using water solutions of micelle generating surfacants like lecithin and polysorbate and sublingual/rectal administration. Concentrations need not be high, 0.5-1% solutions which are then agitated seem to be enough. Activity of 25C-NBOMe is reported to be very strong at around 100mcg for a +++ with this method.
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Wow, so if absorption is the limiter here we'd expect 100mcg to be sufficient for a +++ using this material intramuscularly, too? Also, I presume the speed of onset would be increased using either IM or micelle generating surfacants? Have these initial experiences been repeated?
 
So the HCl is not soluble in IPA or acetone, but IS soluble in water, correct? And vice versa for the freebase? I'll have access to some of the HCl soon, and was planning on dissolving 1 mg in 2 mL of sterile water and IMing 10 insulin units (~50 ug) or less every 30 minutes until something happens. It seems likely I'll feel 50 ug in under 10 minutes since its onset speed is so dramatically increased when smoking (5 min). Plus IMing seems like a much better way to control dosage than smoking.

It's also my understanding that the HCl should be stable enough in water for one mL of water with 500 ug to not degrade for long enough to be used up over the course of a couple months.

Is all this relatively accurate and plausible given what information exists on this compound at the moment? Just want to make sure I'm not missing anything before using the VX nerve gas of psychedelics.
EDIT:
Huh. Is this with the freebase or the hydrochloride? I have some lecithin and am willing to give it a go, but I'm not sure what to do..
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I have some too, but it's in the form of an oily gel inside a capsule. I'm pretty sure this isn't the kind you want because in my brief search I only found use of "pluronic lecithin organelles" in the context of absorption mediums for other drugs. On the other hand, polysorbate 80 is super cheap and verified as working. I wonder if 100 ug doses of 25C-NBOMe could be mixed with the polysorbate 80 solution and put on blotter and still be just as effective at increasing absorption as when administered "wet" (I assume saliva would be all that's needed?). Blotter seems like a natural medium for dispersing a multi-milligram order of this on a usable medium for convenient long term access. Plus, in the unfortunate case of dealers selling it as LSD, with the polysorbate 80 mixture the onset would be, I think, a lot quicker, and so many of the re-dose dangers seen with other slower onset chems sold as LSD could be bypassed. Not to mention at 100 ug per dose this stuff is much cheaper than other LSD-substitute chems, so there's a profit motive (it'd be a shitty way to do harm reduction, but harm reduction nevertheless).
 
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psood0nym said:
So the HCl is not soluble in IPA or acetone, but IS soluble in water, correct? And vice versa for the freebase? I'll have access to some of the HCl soon, and was planning on dissolving 1 mg in 2 mL of sterile water and IMing 10 insulin units (~50 ug) or less every 30 minutes until something happens. It seems likely I'll feel 50 ug in under 10 minutes since its onset speed is so dramatically increased when smoking (5 min). Plus IMing seems like a much better way to control dosage than smoking.

It's also my understanding that the HCl should be stable enough in water for one mL of water with 500 ug to not degrade for long enough to be used up over the course of a couple months.

Is all this relatively accurate and plausible given what information exists on this compound at the moment? Just want to make sure I'm not missing anything before using the VX nerve gas of psychedelics.
EDIT:

I have some too, but it's in the form of an oily gel inside a capsule. I'm pretty sure this isn't the kind you want because in my brief search I only found use of "pluronic lecithin organelles" in the context of absorption mediums for other drugs. On the other hand, polysorbate 80 is super cheap and verified as working. I wonder if 100 ug doses of 25C-NBOMe could be mixed with the polysorbate 80 solution and put on blotter and still be just as effective at increasing absorption as when administered "wet" (I assume saliva would be all that's needed?). Blotter seems like a natural medium for dispersing a multi-milligram order of this on a usable medium for convenient long term access. Plus, in the unfortunate case of dealers selling it as LSD, with the polysorbate 80 mixture the onset would be, I think, a lot quicker, and so many of the re-dose dangers seen with other slower onset chems sold as LSD could be bypassed. Not to mention at 100 ug per dose this stuff is much cheaper than other LSD-substitute chems, so there's a profit motive (it'd be a shitty way to do harm reduction, but harm reduction nevertheless).
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The effect was thought to be dependent on micelle generation so I would guess that it would need to stay in solution to be effect, so I'm not entirely sure drying it out for blotters would be effect (plus polysorbate is kind of gooey stuff). The oily kind of lecithin should work fine, the main thing is high concentrations of phosphatidylcholide. Put a drop or two of either PPC or tween-80 in solution and vortex/sonicate and then ingest (might get frothy/bubbly).

Probably not suitable for injection methods but you're welcome to try yourself as a guinea, I imagine this is a pain in the ass to filter
 
nuke said:
.
Probably not suitable for injection methods but you're welcome to try yourself as a guinea, I imagine this is a pain in the ass to filter
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Thanks for the reply. When you say that you imagine "this is a pain in the ass to filter" you're referring to the gooey polysorbate 80 solution, correct? I wouldn't bother trying to inject that, I'd just dissolve the HCl in water and inject. I'm assuming injecting into muscle bypasses the need for the absorption-enhancing polysorbate 80 medium, and would therefore be active at 100 ug simply dissolved in water, or am I missing something?
 
Polysorbate 80 is used in forming solutions of otherwise water insoluble drugs so actually it should work just fine.
I wouldn't be keen to try it with lecithin, it may contain organic matter that could cause an allergic reaction.
I will not assist in theory of preparing blotters.
 
Yup. It can dissolve slowly sometimes, though. Perhaps make the water warm.
 
^I typed in "african dream root micelle" in a search engine and got no responses that suggest that tea is capable of the critical role polysorbate 80 is thought to play in increasing 25C-NBMOe absorption. Perhaps you've found differently, otherwise why do you suggest it?

I think the easiest way to bypass the theorized low absorption rate (which, even with polysorbate 80, may be highly variable between sublingual and rectal administration making the dosing still somewhat unpredictable due to varying concentrations of polysorbate, different permeabilities of body membranes, etc), and also to get around the vicissitudes of vaporization (burning/destroying the compound, not holding in the vapor long enough, etc.), is just to inject it into muscle. Hopefully I'll try it later this week and be able to post back with the results.
 
MattPsy said:
I think a lot of the potency reduction we're seeing with NBOMe-2C-I vs NBOMe-2C-C, for example, is as a result of tolerance being built up WHILE the drug is still absorbing.
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I also feel that the reason of oral inactivity is different than what is occure with DMT (digestive dégradation), or Salvia (very short half live).
When i tried to find my right dose with fractionnal sublingual doses, i couldn't managed to feel nothing but very light buzz.
250µ nothing, +250µ 2h later very little, +500µ 1h30 later very brief and light, +500 1H later nothing.
The point is very likely that you have to make a single big hit very quiquely because of almost instant tolérance.
Any other redosing report ?
 
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