The better high opiod k receptors, morphine mu receptors, or (oxy)(hydro)codone k & m

[LordKaohs]

The better high opiod k receptors, morphine mu receptors, or (oxy)(hydro)codone k & m

I've been on percs and vics and tramadol as well as both liquid and tab morphine. It seems like morphine did nothing and tramadol even at higher doses really was nothing compared to the codone. The morphine opiate reacting on the mu receptors and tramadol opiod on the k receptors each individually yet they wouldn't hold a candle to say Percocet which is a semi synthetic k and mu receptor agonist both opiod and opiate. Makes me wonder how heroine even makes a market out weighing any of these when it's an extreme opiate like morphine. Was wondering what your thoughts are. Intelligent fact bring thoughts.

 

[Xorkoth]

This isn't a trip report, so I'm moving to Other Drugs.

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

I've been on percs and vics and tramadol as well as both liquid and tab morphine. It seems like morphine did nothing and tramadol even at higher doses really was nothing compared to the codone. The morphine opiate reacting on the mu receptors and tramadol opiod on the k receptors each individually yet they wouldn't hold a candle to say Percocet which is a semi synthetic k and mu receptor agonist both opiod and opiate. Makes me wonder how heroine even makes a market out weighing any of these when it's an extreme opiate like morphine. Was wondering what your thoughts are. Intelligent fact bring thoughts.

Tramadol is mu agonist, not a k opioid agonist. And there is no difference between opioid and opiate really. just use the word opioid. What do you mean about heroin? Heroin is morphine. It's just acetylated and once in the body the acetyl groups get removed, otherwise it's the same thing. Just like codeine is morphine basically.

And kappa opioids are dysphoric, anxiogenic, and they are powerful, bizarre hallucinogens - think salvia divinorum. no one would prefer them. Not true exactly, but we are talking narcotics here - narcotics are mu agonists. The prescription painkill talwin (pentazocine) is a kappa opioid agonist.

 

[tightlywound]

every body is different. just remember that.
I personally get virtually nothing out of all -codone drugs and never have even when I was opiate naive. maybe some enzyme I'm deficient in, I don't know. but any other opiate is highly liable to gain possession of my soul at any point I'm exposed to it.

 

[Keif' Richards]

The Mu Opioid Receptor - MOR is widely considered to be responsble for what both patients and recreational users would qualify as the positive effects of an Opioid. This could mean a lot of things to a lot of people, but generally speaking, the MOR and agonists thereof are generally more enojyable, euphoric and recreational.

The Kappa Opioid Receptor - KOR is usually responsible for unwanted side-effects from certain Opioids. Pentazocine (Talwin), Butorphanol (Stadol) and Levorphanol (Levo-Dromoran) are - or were at some point - the more commonly used Opioids with pronounced Kappa OR agonism. The most commonly cited adverse effects of KOR agonists are dysphoria, hallucination and dissociation. Another example of a strong KOR agonist, Salvinorin A, psychoactive constituent of the recreational drug Salvia (Salvia Divinorum). That should clear things up for most people as Salvia experiences are overwhelmingly negative.

I must be honest in saying that I don't have a lot of experience with KOR agonists so I can't speak for their subjectively positive or negative effects, but given the information I've read, it would seem that a Mu (MOR) agonist would be much more preferable to a Kappa (KOR) agonist. I think this is evidenced by the fact that most all of the commonly abused Opioids are predominantly MOR agonists.

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

People report negative experiences because they largely buy the extracts that are like 60x or 80x - this means 60 and 80 times the active chemical (salvinorin a) which means they are overdosing. Taking 80 times the active dose. No wonder they have a hard time.

You need to smoke the regular leaves if you do it. Or chew it.

They didn't smoke extracts when they used it religiously, or they wouldn't have used it spiritually if most people reported negative experience.

 

[Keif' Richards]

People report negative experiences because they largely buy the extracts that are like 60x or 80x - this means 60 and 80 times the active chemical (salvinorin a) which means they are overdosing. Taking 80 times the active dose. No wonder they have a hard time.

You need to smoke the regular leaves if you do it. Or chew it.

They didn't smoke extracts when they used it religiously, or they wouldn't have used it spiritually if most people reported negative experience.

Oh, I belive that some people have positive experiences with Salvia and I don't think that all of the perceived negative effects are due to it's KOR agonism. I didn't mean to speak globally if that's what it sounded like.

^Do you personally enjoy Salvia? I really never did, but I'm especially impartial toward most psychedelics and dissociatives.

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

Yes, I don't mind the extracts because I like the regular plant, though.

Most people overdose their first time on like 60 80 time the salvinorin A dose. would you agree with this part of post, that they overdose and this is why they mostly dislike it and get negative effects and report negative experiences?

Because it wasn't natural salvia Divinorum? Did you smoke natural salvia? If not, you haven't actually used salvia divinorum, but just salvinorin a, and you just greatly overdosed on it. That could be a possible reason why you never did

 

[Keif' Richards]

Yes, I don't mind the extracts because I like the regular plant, though.

Most people overdose their first time on like 60 80 time the salvinorin A dose. would you agree with this part of post, that they overdose and this is why they mostly dislike it and get negative effects and report negative experiences?

Because it wasn't natural salvia Divinorum? Did you smoke natural salvia? If not, you haven't actually used salvia divinorum, but just salvinorin a, and you just greatly overdosed on it. That could be a possible reason why you never did

Yea, I think I'm gonna stand corrected, because I was under the impression, sort of, that these extracts - 5x 10x 20x son on - were the only way that it came, because that's all I ever saw at the headshop in my neck of the woods. I tried it once, hated the intensity and never gave it another thought. I think if the intensity could be turned down a little bit, I would try it again.

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

Natural salvia is not potent at all. You need to try it. It's the marijuana to synthetic weed. That's what the 20x 40x 60x shit is, is just the synthetic weed of salvia keep that in mind

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

Dale Pendell, a contemporary author who combines science and poetry and explains the relationship between psychedelic compounds and human beings has this to say about Salvia, "in its natural form salvia is more balanced and benevolent, and quite strong enough, he argues High strength extracts ... can show" a more precipitous, and more terrifying, face "and many who try it this way may never wish to repeat the experience."

https://www.utdallas.edu/partyfoul/salvia/

 

[FnX]

Yes, I don't mind the extracts because I like the regular plant, though.

Most people overdose their first time on like 60 80 time the salvinorin A dose. would you agree with this part of post, that they overdose and this is why they mostly dislike it and get negative effects and report negative experiences?

Because it wasn't natural salvia Divinorum? Did you smoke natural salvia? If not, you haven't actually used salvia divinorum, but just salvinorin a, and you just greatly overdosed on it. That could be a possible reason why you never did

I find just the leaf of the plant even in small amounts distinctively dysphoric and it's actually one of the most important reasons why I appreciate it so much. It taught me that something can feel very much the opposite of good and still be a good, insightful thing worthy of doing. A lot of people dismiss the complete experience as a negative one though, overwhelmingness of the extracts is indeed a big factor. I don't think it's weird to dislike the experience either, our culture is used to drugs that make us feel good in a way or another, not drugs as a effective yet sometimes rather harsh tools of the mind. Many people seem to define the portions of their psychedelic experiences that they felt uncomfortable with as difficult or negative, like they did something incorrectly and got an experience that's not to be desired and even if they could learn from it they probably would have preferred that the same lessons came not necessarily "easy" but with euphoric sensations instead. Some lessons simply don't do that, in my opinion. If 'euphoria' is something that is instinctively liked, then dysphoria should put off a lot of people especially if they weren't expecting it.

I also found a weird, vague dysphoric property to oxycodone that made me melancholic if not outright depressed during the effects of the drug. It's not nearly as pronounced as in salvia though and it isn't the same even if it feels very similar (different receptor subtypes hit in different parts, partial agonism?) but I find some opioids simply make me a little sad and a little dysphoric in a way that isn't derived from guilt or anything.

 

[SKR]

I grew Salvia for many years and made extractions and yes, of course there is a difference using just the plant material than making a 5x, 10x, 80x extracts. I totally agree that 60 - 80x extracts are ridiculous doses for the Salvia naive, even for the experienced user those amounts are ridiculously challenging and do take away the shamanic value of this plant. But a 5x to 10x extracts and anything in between can be flirted with even if you are quite naive as long as someone well versed in the plant ensures the new user doesn't overdo it.

I'm a purest with regards to cannabis - the synthetics have never passed my lips and never will but in regards to cannabis I have been spoiled due to who I know in this field, I would post a link to who my mate is but now that he is working with Gov here in Australia and Norfolk Island on medical cannabis I do not wish to draw attention to him and have him associated with me and my posts. He's a world renowned breeder and anyone who has followed "High Times" and the Cannabis cup since the late 70's will come across this dual national Dutch/Australian who is largely responsible for the original dutch seed banks in Amsterdam and of course one of if not the first to do the leg work tangling with afghani tribes and the like gathering the best cannabis genetics to begin a life times work of creating the stock that has gone on to be used to make the basis of most of the weed available today which is largely shit when you get spoiled with original Thai genetics and obscure indices that are clearly the basis of many of the large budding varieties flooding the street market - unfortunately the further they moved away from the original these "better Bud" or "Bigger bud varieties have the look, the smell, the SIZE and weight but fuck all substance (Stone). It's ideal for crime gangs to quickly grow and sell and that's the state of Australian weed.

Fortunately you can still drive to Northern NSW and score amazing Sativa's from local growers in a closest to open air market situation as you can get here, outdoor grown trees (up to 20 feet tall, 15 feet being quite standard) that can bring hydro heads to their knees, Shocked that "Bush Bud", as it's called here, could be so strong - get better genetics buddy.

Sorry for the digression. I also think Morphine is a superior pain killer, but Oxycodone is the one you'll end up on mostly.

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

^Oxycodone is selective for the kappa opioid receptor, which is why you felt the weird dysphoric feeling that was not dissimilar from salvinorin a.

Also why this drug - and other narcotics - can cause hallucinations treatment, as mu opioid receptors downregulate - as most of them agonize both - and kappa activity is entirely unopposed, as they regulate each other.