Alcohol The Benefits of Alcohol?

[Eisbaer]

Drinking alcohol, once in a while, can possibly also strengths the immune system and body. Similar to how drinking small amounts of poison will make someone immune to larger amounts of poisons.

Rich people drink wine. Rich people have good medical care. I bet owning a horse and owning a luxury car is correlated with health benefits.

Being able to afford high quality medical care is correlated with health benefits.*

 

[Felonious Monk]

Drinking alcohol, once in a while, can possibly also strengths the immune system and body. Similar to how drinking small amounts of poison will make someone immune to larger amounts of poisons.

Being able to afford high quality medical care is correlated with health benefits.*

To the first part:
1. That is not why certain alcoholic beverages have health benefits. At all.
2. That is not true. Homeopathic remedies are only safe to consume because there is actually nothing in them besides water.


d1nach was making a joke, the difference between correlation and causation.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Are you serious OP? Alcohol is accepted, legal and EVERYWHERE and is one of the worst drugs out there. I would know. I never thought I was going to become an alcoholic but it will creep up on you.

Same here. Abuse and addiction to alcohol does creep up on you. It is also accepted, completely legal or if you are not of legal age still not difficult to get, one of the most dangerous hard drugs masquerading as a soft drug or some ignorant people don't even consider it to be a drug to them, and it is one of the most dangerous drugs to quit or stop without help both with a support system and medicinal help. Many people have died from attempting alcohol withdrawal on their own, or they start to believe they can drink or use other drugs again and wind up relapsing on alcohol or become addicted to other drugs and die.

 

[Eisbaer]

Same here. Abuse and addiction to alcohol does creep up on you. It is also accepted, completely legal or if you are not of legal age still not difficult to get, one of the most dangerous hard drugs masquerading as a soft drug or some ignorant people don't even consider it to be a drug to them, and it is one of the most dangerous drugs to quit or stop without help both with a support system and medicinal help. Many people have died from attempting alcohol withdrawal on their own, or they start to believe they can drink or use other drugs again and wind up relapsing on alcohol or become addicted to other drugs and die.

That may not be the case, since it's easier to get drugs other than alcohol. Like RC's online, propyl at a convenient store, etc. You don't even need a fake ID or know someone to get them underage.

That's what brought me into the drugs scene, it's simply quicker/easier/less expensive to buy RC's than alcohol. And that is why I prefer RC's. If alchohol was legal at an earlier age, I probably wouldn't even be here.

 

[Hodor]

That may not be the case, since it's easier to get drugs other than alcohol. Like RC's online, propyl at a convenient store, etc. You don't even need a fake ID or know someone to get them underage.

That's what brought me into the drugs scene, it's simply quicker/easier/less expensive to buy RC's than alcohol. And that is why I prefer RC's. If alchohol was legal at an earlier age, I probably wouldn't even be here.

Wait, you have a German user name, but you aren't German/Austrian/Swiss, right? Because those places have a legal drinking age of 16 for beer and wine and 18 for hard liquor, and you can buy alcoholic beverages at any supermarket/convenience store.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Alcohol is like the least demonized drug there is and one of the worst

Of course people that drink are happier, less anxious etc, because that's why they drink. Alcohol is an anxiolytic and makes things more fun
And saying that people in the scientific community are antisocial is just not true

 

[dus_aster]

I do have a source! First of all, the phenomena of it being toxic in high doses and beneficial in low doses is called 'hormesis'; 'the historical ecology of ethanol ingestion' (Dudley R, 2002).

As to some of the benefits of moderate alcohol consumption, because, given our discussion of the risks of abuse, it seems fitting to include it's legitimate medical uses:
***Remember, potential reader: these all rely on 0.5-1.5 (a couple use two) drinks a day, and add that /all risks are doubled or tripled if that limit is exceeded, and refer to my earlier post for my views on how harmful alcohol can be**
***Additionally, most of this /is/ correlational, not experimental, so to anyone reading this, obviously take it with a grain of salt**

25% drop in relative risk of myocardial infraction in men consuming up to two drinks a day (Pearson & Terry, 1994, 'what to advise patients about drinking alcohol, Journal of the American Medical Association, 272, 967-968)
Decreased risk of stroke in elderly (Gunzerath et al, 2004, 'alcohol: clinical and experimental research', NIAAA; Reynolds et al, 2003, 'alcohol consumption and risk of stroke', the journal of the AMA, 289, 579-588)
Reduced risk of age-related dementias (Peters, Peters, Warner, Beckett, & Bulpitt, 2008, 'alcohol, dementia, and cognitive decline in the elderly')
Aaaand to the poster who inquired about my source re: performance and cognitive benefits, I can't find it anywhere, now... I swear I read it somewhere, but disregard what I said unless I can find it. It was something about how low doses improved performance on a variety of tasks in a lab setting, but postulated that this could have been due to some participants being anxious about the testing, and alcohol suppressing that anxiety and the defecits associated with it.

 

[markanders7]

That's a lot to process/respond to. So I am not going to attempt to try and trip all over myself.

But I will say one thing...I disagree with your notion that "everyone discredits alcohol" etc. Just turn on your television....and count how many minutes(or seconds) you have to wait until you see a beer/liquor commercial. And then there are the statistics on alcohol consumption. I could go on, but I am honestly just too tired at the moment.

...alcohol has completely embedded itself into our world and our communities.

As someone who suffered extreme anxiety and panic attacks, alcohol was a MIRACLE drug. I suddenly was happy, confident, outgoing, I went from sitting alone at home miserable to partying, friends, a great social life. Everything was amazing.

However, that lasted 4 months before I realized I got physical withdrawals and it got worse and worse untilhere I am seven years on only 5 months sober after years of drinking 4-6 bottles of wine a day.

In the short term? There are a lot of benefits. In the long term? None tha I can think of.

 

[jamesBrown]

As someone who suffered extreme anxiety and panic attacks, alcohol was a MIRACLE drug. I suddenly was happy, confident, outgoing, I went from sitting alone at home miserable to partying, friends, a great social life. Everything was amazing.

However, that lasted 4 months before I realized I got physical withdrawals and it got worse and worse untilhere I am seven years on only 5 months sober after years of drinking 4-6 bottles of wine a day.

In the short term? There are a lot of benefits. In the long term? None tha I can think of.

At least you recognized it as a drug.

...but GREAT for you man!!...sober for 5 months is INFINITELY better than not sober at all. I wish you the best.

I do have a source! First of all, the phenomena of it being toxic in high doses and beneficial in low doses is called 'hormesis'; 'the historical ecology of ethanol ingestion' (Dudley R, 2002).

As to some of the benefits of moderate alcohol consumption, because, given our discussion of the risks of abuse, it seems fitting to include it's legitimate medical uses:
***Remember, potential reader: these all rely on 0.5-1.5 (a couple use two) drinks a day, and add that /all risks are doubled or tripled if that limit is exceeded, and refer to my earlier post for my views on how harmful alcohol can be**
***Additionally, most of this /is/ correlational, not experimental, so to anyone reading this, obviously take it with a grain of salt**

25% drop in relative risk of myocardial infraction in men consuming up to two drinks a day (Pearson & Terry, 1994, 'what to advise patients about drinking alcohol, Journal of the American Medical Association, 272, 967-968)
Decreased risk of stroke in elderly (Gunzerath et al, 2004, 'alcohol: clinical and experimental research', NIAAA; Reynolds et al, 2003, 'alcohol consumption and risk of stroke', the journal of the AMA, 289, 579-588)
Reduced risk of age-related dementias (Peters, Peters, Warner, Beckett, & Bulpitt, 2008, 'alcohol, dementia, and cognitive decline in the elderly')
Aaaand to the poster who inquired about my source re: performance and cognitive benefits, I can't find it anywhere, now... I swear I read it somewhere, but disregard what I said unless I can find it. It was something about how low doses improved performance on a variety of tasks in a lab setting, but postulated that this could have been due to some participants being anxious about the testing, and alcohol suppressing that anxiety and the defecits associated with it.

I do not disbelieve what you are saying, nor am I trying to discredit your sources(good sourcing by the way...seriously).....BUT.....those articles/statistics/facts are based on information gathered when people consume the CORRECT/HEALTHY amounts(and types) of alcohol. I feel that one must consider the LARGER picture. The larger picture being that no matter what drug you are discussing(that is beneficial in certain, controlled quantities), there will ALWAYS be the risk of dependence. And this leads us to the inevitable conclusion of countless alcoholics(or speaking more frankly...drug addicts) who are not only destroying their lives and their futures, but the lives and the futures of the people around them. Often, the people they are responsible for rearing.
And since we cannot control(as a species) the urge, or the need even, to always want to feel better and live happier, we will always have the issue of people ATTEMPTING(or not) to 'drink responsibly' yet failing miserably and thus making a monumental negative impact on ourselves and the world we live in.
And ^this^ fact of life...is why I believe that the argument of... "...well, technically alcohol is(or can be) a healthy, positive influence on our health when consumed correctly..." becomes a moot point/argument. We have proven to ourselves time and time again that we cannot be trusted with our own health when it comes down to each individual battling an addiction. All the people who, for WHATEVER reason, cannot stop themselves after just one or two glasses a night, because they are in a constant search for the happiness they believe the next glass might bring them, add up to a sadly impressive number of poor/hurting souls. So even if the root of the problem lies within the minds of each of us as individuals, it ultimately affects the human species as a whole...for the worse.

*This argument can still be made by substituting almost any drug of abuse for alcohol when reading this post.*

 

[Eisbaer]

Wait, you have a German user name, but you aren't German/Austrian/Swiss, right? Because those places have a legal drinking age of 16 for beer and wine and 18 for hard liquor, and you can buy alcoholic beverages at any supermarket/convenience store.

I am German, but I live in the USA. Therefore, I am subject to the laws of the USA.

After reading the posts above, I started wondering if alcohol can help cure or suppress anxiety or depression long term, if taken at low doses every day? E.g. two glasses or one shot per day.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

At least you recognized it as a drug.

...but GREAT for you man!!...sober for 5 months is INFINITELY better than not sober at all. I wish you the best.



I do not disbelieve what you are saying, nor am I trying to discredit your sources(good sourcing by the way...seriously).....BUT.....those articles/statistics/facts are based on information gathered when people consume the CORRECT/HEALTHY amounts(and types) of alcohol. I feel that one must consider the LARGER picture. The larger picture being that no matter what drug you are discussing(that is beneficial in certain, controlled quantities), there will ALWAYS be the risk of dependence. And this leads us to the inevitable conclusion of countless alcoholics(or speaking more frankly...drug addicts) who are not only destroying their lives and their futures, but the lives and the futures of the people around them. Often, the people they are responsible for rearing.
And since we cannot control(as a species) the urge, or the need even, to always want to feel better and live happier, we will always have the issue of people ATTEMPTING(or not) to 'drink responsibly' yet failing miserably and thus making a monumental negative impact on ourselves and the world we live in.
And ^this^ fact of life...is why I believe that the argument of... "...well, technically alcohol is(or can be) a healthy, positive influence on our health when consumed correctly..." becomes a moot point/argument. We have proven to ourselves time and time again that we cannot be trusted with our own health when it comes down to each individual battling an addiction. All the people who, for WHATEVER reason, cannot stop themselves after just one or two glasses a night, because they are in a constant search for the happiness they believe the next glass might bring them, add up to a sadly impressive number of poor/hurting souls. So even if the root of the problem lies within the minds of each of us as individuals, it ultimately affects the human species as a whole...for the worse.

*This argument can still be made by substituting almost any drug of abuse for alcohol when reading this post.*

I don't underestimate the negative effects of alcohol...my own grandmother died from alcoholism.

But the vast majority of people who consume alcohol do so responsibly, with no negative impact on their life. I don't think that the potentially negative aspects of alcohol should overshadow that fact. It's a fact I think a lot of people overlook with most drugs, actually, is the fact that the overwhelming majority of users for a given drug use responsibly and don't recklessly crash their lives into a ditch

 

[kleinerkiffer]

I don't quite get the point of this thread, alcohol is legal, you can buy it pretty much everywhere, it's socially accepted and most people use/abuse it, so what do you want to achieve?
Imo other drugs like meth and heroin, while having some medical use (desoxyn for adhd etc and heroin for pain management) are far more demonized and stigmatized than alcohol

 

[Mycophile]

That may not be the case, since it's easier to get drugs other than alcohol. Like RC's online, propyl at a convenient store, etc. You don't even need a fake ID or know someone to get them underage.

That's what brought me into the drugs scene, it's simply quicker/easier/less expensive to buy RC's than alcohol. And that is why I prefer RC's. If alchohol was legal at an earlier age, I probably wouldn't even be here.

Only “easier” than RCs if you aren’t concerned with the risk of arrest…which I sort of am, even though I’d bet sooner or later I'll buy an RC…as long as you are 21 (or let’s be honest, MUCH younger than that it’s EASY to get access) the risks of obtaining alcohol are FAR less than the risks you take to obtain an RC.

IF you happen to somehow be caught with an illegal RC (though I hear it's unlikely, which makes me more hopeful I might venture to purchase one eventually) you'll do SERIOUS prison time, but you won't get more than a slap on the wrist for underage drinking.

The only drug easier to purchase with fewer risks of arrest than alcohol or tobacco are caffeine, or OTC products not intended to get high with like DXM, bendaryl, Loperamide, etc.

There’s really no drug in the world, across multiple nations, easier to purchase with less likelihood of arrest through obtaining it than alcohol other than tobacco and caffeine.

I DO agree alcohol can have benefits, like if you are shy like I am, it can lead to some nice social connections at bars and stuff.

I’ve had some pretty good stuff happen in my life that wouldn’t have happened without booze in the picture haha, but also plenty of bad ones, and I wouldn’t even consider myself an alcoholic…I’d say I have “periods where I drink like an alcoholic” and periods where I don’t…and I think that’s really a better way to think of it than label someone.

By and large I’d say I’m not since I can quit easily go weeks or even several months without drinking if I want to and have many times.

But I would argue that alcohol’s benefits are ONLY social ones, and that it probably or possibly causes more social PROBLEMS than good things…domestic abuse, violence, drunk driving deaths, etc.

I love to think that I’m doing something great when I drink red wine as I love it, but I never stick to just one glass which is what is supposed to be healthy, and again, it’s not the alcohol that is healthy but the antioxidants.

As has been said no “thing” is either good or bad.

No drug is good or bad, guns aren’t good or bad, even nuclear weapons aren’t good or bad.

You might as well say that a rock is good or bad lol.

But I just thinking making a thread about how alcohol is demonized too much is silly when it’s practically the ONLY mind altering substance (along with tobacco and caffeine) which is legal world wide, and yet it is one of the most dangerous.

I know one guy in particular who will brag about how much he drinks, but if you bring up weed he will NOT accept that it’s anything less than horrible (he’s a conservative of course lol).

Just like all the fucking cops who are drunks.

They go out and lock up an innocent kid for weed or MDMA or whatever else, and go home and get shitfaced and smoke a pack of cigs.

If anything, what’s so fucked up is that one of the more dangerous drugs is so socially acceptable and the others aren’t.

 

[dus_aster]

I concur (wholeheartedly!) with everything you said- I just wanted to throw in some information on the positive effects; less to play devil's advocate and more to help counter the assertion that 'everyone is always demonizing alcohol' (paraphrased).
I made two notes at the top of my post- one saying that all benefits necessitated an intake of 0.5-1.5 units, otherwise all benefits are negated and you double or triple your risks. The other noted that the research was causational, but yes, as you said, and for people who might be reading this, that means that it is *not* fact, and relies on a consumption model that treats alcohol like medicine and not a drug.

Might as well repeat it one more time- there are, physiologically, literally z e r o benefits from consuming excessive amounts of alcohol. This isn't fear-mongering, this is a *well-established* fact. Alcohol is extremely toxic at high doses, more so than many other recreational drugs with a far worse rap, and has caused irreperable harm to countless people over thousands of years. The cost of this is far reaching; what, for example, could William S Burroughs Jr. have written had he not died of alcohol abuse in his 30s? How many prolific artists have been killed by alcohol?


To the OPs most recent comment:
Do you have a source that most people use it responsibly? I have a fairly diverse friend network, ranging in age from 16-45 (I, myself, am 21), from a variety of socio-economic backgrounds, from a variety of racial and spiritual backgrounds- almost none of them use it medicinally, despite not being alcoholics.
I have two people in my life who use responsibly- one of whom can't drink due to risk of inciting recurrent seizures, the other because she's married to him and very supportive. And I come from a pretty 'normalized' background (upper-lower class, white, Canadian, stableish family life...)
If anything, most people use it /irresponsibly/ (anecdotal self-source only, sorry)... if you get drunk, ever, you use it irresponsibly, and it nullifies some of the health gains made in all likelihood.
Drinking booze usually leads to drinking more booze, if you're using it as a medication. Please, do try, but be careful... if you can manage to self-medicate with it while always staying below two drinks a day (not in quick succession, either; adhering to the rate at which alcohol is metabolized into it's byproduct and the rate at which that byproduct is metabolized into something the body can handle), please share info on how you did it! Most people who enjoy alcohol find it very difficult, and your findings could be useful to others. Because, again, most people can't.

 

[dus_aster]

@kleinerkiffer
Perhaps the point of the thread is to help further dispell any notions that alcohol is safe or justifiable to use in quantities above those found to be therepeutic? Repetitive, yes, but information repeated ad nauseam often has the effect of getting through to people (eventually) who otherwise would continue to spread false information (not directed at you, OP).
It doesn't explicitly achieve anything, but, at the same time, it could help some who are uneducated as to the risks realize those risks and reconsider their drinking.

Admittedly, however, the thread is messy.

I have the utmost respect for you, but that's my proverbial two cents on why these sorts of threads have some merit.

 

[jamesBrown]

I don't underestimate the negative effects of alcohol...my own grandmother died from alcoholism.

But the vast majority of people who consume alcohol do so responsibly, with no negative impact on their life. I don't think that the potentially negative aspects of alcohol should overshadow that fact. It's a fact I think a lot of people overlook with most drugs, actually, is the fact that the overwhelming majority of users for a given drug use responsibly and don't recklessly crash their lives into a ditch

I apologize if you thought that somewhere in my post I said that you "underestimate the negative effects of alcohol", because I did not mean to say or imply that. And to be blunt...I didn't.

...but in THIS particular post of mine, I believe I actually WILL go so far as to accuse you of underestimating these negative effects.
The reason being this quote of yours...

...But the vast majority of people who consume alcohol do so responsibly...

I, personally, do not believe that the "vast majority" of people drink responsibly. I have seen too much to accept that as truth. And even if it were true, the MASSIVE number of people who don't drink responsibly, and the ensuing hell that that puts people through in all manner of ways, is enough to tip the scales too far in the wrong direction with regards to general public health and safety for me to agree with the general tone of your post(and the statements made within).

 

[Mycophile]

I’m not demonizing it either though…it’s just another drug and IMO ALL drugs should be legal.

It HAS led to a few AMAZING things happening for me in social contexts.

Sometimes I drink a lot, sometimes I drink a moderate amount, sometimes I drink one glass (that’s rarer than not drinking at all cause if I'm drinking any I usually want at least a buzz or else I would just abstain) and sometimes I go weeks or months without drinking at all.

I would say there's about a total of about 8 months out of the year I don't drink at all (or even more really considering I don't drink most nights) that I don't drink if you add up all the days I've had any VS those I haven't.

I’ve gotten raised liver enzymes (I’m sure they are high now), stopped for a while, and they went down.

Never been arrested for that or anything else, and I do very much love alcohol in most of its many forms haha.

But it’s just hard to vouch for it’s benefits BEYOND the social ones.

That’s NOT to take lightly though.

Bar culture is so much a part of “having fun”, and even more so when you are shy like me, that it’s hard to know how to “go out” and not end up at a bar or restaurant that serves booze, and if I end up at one I usually get drunk.

But MANY good things HAVE come from alcohol use, in terms of people making friends, getting laid, meeting one's wife who they wouldn't have met outside a bar, or talked to if they hadn't had a few in them to help with the anxiety etc.

Even on a creative front you could argue that some drunks have been more creative with it (probably not so much in comparison to psychs or weed).

So, I won’t make a small thing of its social benefits….they are BIG.

I just wish those bars served other drugs that are illegal, so if I go there and want to loosen up and not drink I can take any number of other substances instead if I want to haha!!

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Lol i made the comment you quoted just to make the point that i recognize the fact that alcohol is a potentially destructive substance, with a reference to my own life.

Of course you didnt make the point that i underestimated the destructive force of alcohol...you werent even talking to me.

And you can think whatever you want re: alcohol. The fact remains that the vast majority of people who consume alcohol dont have it ruin their lives. Beer one of the most consumed beverages on earth, for example, behind only coffee and tea IIRC.

 

[markanders7]

At least you recognized it as a drug.

...but GREAT for you man!!...sober for 5 months is INFINITELY better than not sober at all. I wish you the best.



I do not disbelieve what you are saying, nor am I trying to discredit your sources(good sourcing by the way...seriously).....BUT.....those articles/statistics/facts are based on information gathered when people consume the CORRECT/HEALTHY amounts(and types) of alcohol. I feel that one must consider the LARGER picture. The larger picture being that no matter what drug you are discussing(that is beneficial in certain, controlled quantities), there will ALWAYS be the risk of dependence. And this leads us to the inevitable conclusion of countless alcoholics(or speaking more frankly...drug addicts) who are not only destroying their lives and their futures, but the lives and the futures of the people around them. Often, the people they are responsible for rearing.
And since we cannot control(as a species) the urge, or the need even, to always want to feel better and live happier, we will always have the issue of people ATTEMPTING(or not) to 'drink responsibly' yet failing miserably and thus making a monumental negative impact on ourselves and the world we live in.
And ^this^ fact of life...is why I believe that the argument of... "...well, technically alcohol is(or can be) a healthy, positive influence on our health when consumed correctly..." becomes a moot point/argument. We have proven to ourselves time and time again that we cannot be trusted with our own health when it comes down to each individual battling an addiction. All the people who, for WHATEVER reason, cannot stop themselves after just one or two glasses a night, because they are in a constant search for the happiness they believe the next glass might bring them, add up to a sadly impressive number of poor/hurting souls. So even if the root of the problem lies within the minds of each of us as individuals, it ultimately affects the human species as a whole...for the worse.

*This argument can still be made by substituting almost any drug of abuse for alcohol when reading this post.*

Thanks it's been a bitch to beat.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Lol i made the comment you quoted just to make the point that i recognize the fact that alcohol is a potentially destructive substance, with a reference to my own life.

Of course you didnt make the point that i underestimated the destructive force of alcohol...you werent even talking to me.

And you can think whatever you want re: alcohol. The fact remains that the vast majority of people who consume alcohol dont have it ruin their lives. Beer one of the most consumed beverages on earth, for example, behind only coffee and tea IIRC.

Also, its worth mentioning that my home state (alaska) was, as of a couple years ago, ranked the 3rd most violent state in the country per capita, due largely to the astronomical rates of rape, assault and domestic violence driven largely by alcohol. It is so bad that in some areas alcohol is completely illegal and possession/sale is treated like a narcotic offense

So if were going just by anecdotal evidence, I too have "seen too much" when it comes to alcohol use and abuse. Thats not gonna change my attempt at an objective analysis regarding the social context of alcohol consumption in general, though