Cosmic Trigger
Bluelighter
You're quite welcome.
I love the way you make definitive statements as if you could know what it's like for other people.This is the same crap that people try to dump on the suicidal all the time. Maybe you just don't have the guts to admit that life can suck so much that it's not worth it. That seems just as likely to me. Death scares you. How would I know for sure?
Again I'm going to say there is no way I or anyone else can really know what the life experience of another is like, what they have tried or not or even if they care to try. It's a personal life choice like all the others we demand as free humans. Yet for some reason this one is supposed to be off the table. Seems like fear to me.
^That's totally true Nixiam. But, what do you think of the idea that the causing grief in the people left behind actually transgresses their freedom too? If I kill myself, I cause suffering to others which they will likely carry until they die; is that an ethical burden to inflict on somebody?
I believe that one of the most compassionate and altruistic things that a person can do is to allow another person, however loved and cherished, to pass away. That is an act of true love IMO. It is selfish to expect another person to live simply so that you will not grieve for their absence; I think that we have an aversion to suicide as we feel it devalues the life we continue to lead, but relegating a sick or tormented person to further suffering devalues the experience of life much, much more.
It's a nice thought, but what if suffering is just inherent, inevitable and meaningless? It seems to be present for most people regardless of their circumstances, and seems to be a lifelong affliction. I'm sceptical as to whether anyone truly learns anything they couldn't have learned in some other way, such as through introspection and application of reason and logic.
Struggling and overcoming adversity might give you strength or resilience but I don't know what is meant by 'good in the end'. The end, to my mind, is death and nothing that you've learned comes with you. Many schools of philosophy and spirituality imply that suffering is inevitable and somehow noble, as in Christianity which upholds ideals of persecution, atonement, punishment amongst other things. I feel like that may be a trick or wishful thinking, I can't see a huge benefit in much of the degradations I have experienced. So, I think the buddhist idea of non-attachment to suffering is more useful; it allows you to accept what you are experiencing and withhold value judgments if it and it lessens the intensity of suffering. For me, its more useful to be aware of the inevitable, and therefore almost impersonal, nature of suffering than to try and determine the lesson it is teaching or the way it will benefit me. On a purely subjective level, if I try and turn pain into something to learn from, I often end up agitated and anxious and angry. But if I focus on the fact that my latest worry will pass (and be replaced) and that worrying will not help me. And what I learn is that suffering will continue regardless but the intensity of my experiencing of it will diminish. You don't need to wait either, it works instantly, sometimes much better than others.![]()
Also the fact that you should be able to explain the position. This is probably the hardest philosophical problem possible. It's almost impossible.