US Politics the 2025 trump presidency thread

[TheLoveBandit]

There are probably one or two crazies doing the Tesla stuff.
jan. 6 was a concerted effort to attack Congress by the entire crowd.

Um, no. Not even close on 'one or two crazies'

Number of Tesla attacks soars past 50 as violence targeting Musk's company escalates

Over 50 Tesla attacks in the U.S. linked to Elon Musk's political views. Incidents range from vandalism to arson, with Pamela Bondi treating them as domestic terrorism.

www.foxnews.com

Tesla attack map shows wave of Elon Musk products being targeted

Musk's increasing influence in the White House under President Donald Trump appears to have made his company Tesla a target for political backlash.

www.newsweek.com

As to the remark on J6, Ill pause and simply state we have differing views on what went down and why.

As far as individual acts from the right, there have been a few studies showing that most US political violence is from the right.
Just off the top of my head there's the guy breaking into Pelosi's house and attacking her husband with a hammer and Cesar Sayoc the pipe bomb mailer.

Ya know what, I do make attempts to get information from multipole outlets, even those I don't like (ftr I don't trust any of them). And most of what sticks in my head is violence from the left = trans shooters, mass shooters, tesla shit, politicians voicing violence, etc. But I have to stop here, because I DID do some research, and it confirms what you say, despite what my memory tells me. I'll credit my unbalanced choice of inputs and their lack of coverage for this topic as viewed from the left.

To clarify, I was speaking of US violence, but I suspect you were as well. One point that may cloud the issue is how Islamists are viewed, yes, even domestically in the US. Such a hard religious bent driving such actions is most likely viewed as 'right wing', and I can't/won't argue against that. But I will say I never really consider them as part of the 'right wing' and view them more as their own entity. Still, the Pro-Hamas/Anti-Israel population do indeed cause a lot of violence and crimes (vandalism, threats, and even harm).

Bottom line, I'll concede to you on this one and work to better educate myself.

But, wasn't your comment in response to me saying there were people eager to be Brown Shirts while I was referring to a Trumper screaming "Trump's going to send you all to an El Salvadoran prison."... at a peaceful Tesla protest?

Fuck me. You are right (again). With all those long spout offs, I do tend to ramble and lose my train of thought at times. Apologies for misdirecting the discussion. I'll just sit here at the station and try to catch the next train. Cheers.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

Why won’t democrats and powerful blue states like CA. NY, and MA start blatantly breaking the law to sabotage the country and hold it hostage like the Trump administration is doing?

At what point do we realize that we will get destroyed if we keep playing by the rules while the people hurting us are breaking every law there is and shitting on the constitution.

If CA NY MA and WA just stopped paying federal taxes the country would be brought to its knees instantly. These blue states are currently having all the federal funds that they more than paid for selectively stripped just because they didn’t support Trump - but yet we keep following orders and paying them? At what point to democrats and the left start breaking the law also?

Let's back this up a bit and look at the facts, please. You are correct those big blue states contribute the most to the federal tax collection. 8/10 (counting Ohio) of the top ones are blue. They contribute A LOT, which is expected by being the largest populations. I believe it has been said CA has a GDP larger than most countries. This is even more surprising in that CA allows for deducting your state and local taxes from your taxable income number thereby meaning CA residents pay a lower federal tax (based on that lower adjusted income). And still, CA kicks everyone's ass in paying federal taxes.

State	2020 Fed Taxes ($k)
California	467,417,992
New York	289,387,122
Texas	275,485,613
Florida	209,757,676
Illinois	156,435,157
Ohio	144,308,916
Pennsylvania	140,452,053
New Jersey	131,327,919
Massachusetts	119,074,662
Washington	101,041,925

However, if those blue states chose to withhold their federal contributions...I really don't know what would happen. My inclination was the fed would cut funding for the state, which aligns with what one would expect in terms of populations (CA=163b, NY=110b, TX=106b, FL=59b, and PA=57b). So for any state withholding and getting cut off, it's a net gain. Averge across the states is 14.5% of their state budgets are federally funded. Personally, I'm all in favor of this = cut the fed budget to the bare bones AND CUT FED TAXES so that money stays in the state. Let the states decide how their constituents' money is spent at local and state levels, not federal. I'm gonna have to shrug and say I'm with you so far.

The only differing note I can put up is the second para about blue states not playing by the rules because it hurts them to do so. I'll point to the sanctuary cities where going against the federal rules is hurting them both financially and in terms of public safety. I'll also state that the long standing republican position is that Rs are too soft, always play by the rules, particularly in congress, only to get smashed by Ds who ignore the rules or rewrite them. Let's just say it is felt by both sides that the rules aren't fair and the other side cheats. I will also note the majority of grumblings across the land for a secession, a leaving of the federation by states, has been by the right over recent years. Now, with Trump in control, we'll hear more and more of it from the left and those in blue states. I don't know how realisitc that is, by either side. Ultimately, I hope we can return to some middle ground where people can agree to disagree but remain brothers and sisters.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

it extends to his base also. It’s why you see supporters of he that have been fired by him, lost their spouses/family to deportation, had their kids die from unvaccination, had to birth unwanted kids, had family die from untreated miscarriages, had to serve 4 years in prison for J6, have had their VA access compromised due to firings, have had their taxes raised while seeing the ultra rich not pay any taxes or less taxes, had their stock portfolio or 401k wiped, lost their welfare benefits ….the list goes on. His supporters that have had their lives ruined in these ways will not admit they were wrong.

After seeing all of this happen to themselves they still don’t regret supporting Trump. The reasons for this are twofold (with a minor contribution from #3)

Wow. You're firing all over the place with that statement. I could do the same back at you (ie: lost family members due to the vaccination), but I'm not. I'll stick to providing facts, and being called out for it when I don't or when my sources are misleading or incorrect.

It is baffling why they never seem to find fault with DT though. Even when I have supported a president in the past I would readily admit when I disagreed with him. No one agrees with a political leader all the time. It's frustrating in the extreme, and Fox News does seem to play a big role in their narrative.

To both of you, I would suggest that the news you fill your head with doesn't expose the distrust or concern that conservatives have in Trump, unless it's to try and blow up some articles about 'he is losing his base.' Reality is, many didn't know what to expect in his first term. And, tbh, his second term is still a bit of a black box as well. We didn't expect him to launch changes on so many fronts at once, and we wonder how much he can sustain - what gets slowed by courts and does he shrug and abandon any of them or does he surprise us with preparation against those as well? We've grown used to his words, and we don't take them literally like some do - instead we take the direction he is talking about going and look to see what he does to get there. We wanted safer borders, we're getting it - he's accomplished that. We wanted a better economy - not there, but things are moving the right direction. The tarriff thing is his favorite hammer in search of nails - there is hope that it brings jobs back to the US and levels trade, but there is the risk it backfires. We know that and are waiting to see.

If you wanted to see us really complain about his mistakes, I'll jump on with one of Ali's favorites - the wall wasn't build, Mexico didn't pay shit. Yeah, we're pissed that wasn't done. But then we saw what Biden did and saw it as so much worse. Whatever he can do in this term, even if it weren't to get back to where it was before Biden will better than were Biden took us. Biden didn't lower the bar, he threw it out the window, so nearly any progress on the border will be lauded by the right. So far, he's killing it on that one. Another complaint? First term it felt like the President Tweeter was on his damn phone texting the world 24/7, often on petty comments or worse, inflamatory remarks that would work against us. This term? Much less tweeting unless it is on the agenda. Yes, there's still some petty shit, but overall his time, focus, and energy isn't on all that crap like it was the first time. The public twitter interactions, the leaving himself open for constant democrat attacks/distractions, the slogging about of his first term - all painful regrets. 98% gone this time. Will he make more mistakes? He's human, it is inevitable. Will he still achieve most of what he promised us? So far, so good.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

trump has already signed 107 executive orders in his second term. of those only 2 revoke executive orders by joe biden: Initial Rescissions of Harmful Executive Orders and Actions; Memorandum for the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, the Administrator of the United States for International Development

2 eos "undoing biden's crap" and 105 doing other stuff.

suggesting his executive orders are "just undoing biden's crap" is demonstrably incorrect.

No, he's a bit more efficient than that. Initial Rescissions of Harmful Executive Orders and Actions - explicitely lists 78 Biden OE's Trump undid in one swell foop. They are all listed there in the link you provided. That is demonstrably a lot of 'Biden crap' considering his auto-pen signed 162 during his term. Nearly HALF are undone.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

If you wanted to see us really complain about his mistakes, I'll jump on with one of Ali's favorites - the wall wasn't build, Mexico didn't pay shit.

First term it felt like the President Tweeter was on his damn phone texting the world 24/7, often on petty comments or worse, inflamatory remarks that would work against us.

If you expected Mexico to pay for the wall and for Trump to not rip America apart and make everyone hate each other….you aren’t even worth having a discussion with as you are so far gone. This is like the federal workers that were told they would be fired and were surprised after he fired them.

I’m not sure if you actually believed these things or not but did you?

 

[Quasimoto]

Did Trump admin use ChatGPT to allocate tariffs? What we know

Critics said that AIs such as ChatGPT gave the same technique used by the White House when asked to design a global tariff policy.

www.newsweek.com

Pretty goofy. They applied tariffs to uninhabited nations...

Trump is not an intelligent person. I'd actually be really curious to see what his IQ is, but isn't he also the first president to not release his health records?

 

[brokedownpalace10]

As to the remark on J6, Ill pause and simply state we have differing views on what went down and why.

Well, in this clip, there were members of Congress being hustled to safety down the hall from those glass doors and visible to the people trying to break through to them. I imagine they were, "concerned".

To clarify, I was speaking of US violence, but I suspect you were as well. One point that may cloud the issue is how Islamists are viewed, yes, even domestically in the US. Such a hard religious bent driving such actions is most likely viewed as 'right wing', and I can't/won't argue against that.

I have to again call bullshit on you, sir. Any study I've seen did not lump Islamist extremists with right wing. Actually, this ⬇︎ particular comparison not only says that the left is less associated with violent acts, it separates right wing and Islamists and says the level of violence from the right is equal to that of Islamists

"Across both datasets, we find that radical acts perpetrated by individuals associated with left-wing causes are less likely to be violent. In the United States, we find no difference between the level of violence perpetrated by right-wing and Islamist extremists."

A Comparison of Political Violence by Left-wing, Right-wing and Islamist Extremists in the United States and the World | START.umd.edu

Although political violence has been perpetrated on behalf of a wide range of political ideologies, it is unclear whether there are systematic differences between ideologies in the use of violence to pursue a political cause. Prior research on this topic is scarce and mostly restricted to...

www.start.umd.edu

But I will say I never really consider them as part of the 'right wing' and view them more as their own entity. Still, the Pro-Hamas/Anti-Israel population do indeed cause a lot of violence and crimes (vandalism, threats, and even harm).

As does the right wing, apparently. The study does say that Islamists do more violence worldwide.


A was likely guilty of hyperbole saying that the Tesla violence is by "one or two". But, you do have to admit that the number of crazies compared to the size of the movement is quite small. Fox news said 51 "attacks" but went on to say that, "The incidents range from minor vandalism, such as keying or graffiti, to more extreme cases". The more serious incidents seemed to be the same ones mentioned in the Newsweek article. How many did you count?

And, as I said, they have been roundly condemned by the much larger group protesting DOGE at Teslas. I suppose all I should say is, trying to make the protestors guilty by association might be a bit of a straw man.

Edited to add: I hope the ones doing vandalism and arson are prosecuted to the full extent of the law and pray things never escalate to physical violence.

 

[kris66]

If you expected Mexico to pay for the wall and for Trump to not rip America apart and make everyone hate each other….you aren’t even worth having a discussion with as you are so far gone. This is like the federal workers that were told they would be fired and were surprised after he fired them.

I’m not sure if you actually believed these things or not but did you?

Agreed. It is unbelievable the level of dissension we have risen to in this country in the few years since Trump came on the political scene.

I remember the warnings when he was running the first time that he was dividing Americans further apart. I don't think anyone could have guessed how quickly it would get bad, though, or how bad it would get. We can't even watch the same news networks now, and people seem to have divided into their factions.

Now we are alienating our allies also. Who is going to bring us out of it and bring us back together again?

I can't believe anyone could look at our country right now and say we are going in the right direction. Unbelievable.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I can't believe anyone could look at our country right now and say we are going in the right direction. Unbelievable.

I can’t beleieve anyone would on its face say things are objectively going well. But I understand why some people support it because I’m kind of at the point myself where I wound support an authoritarian and violent government that forces my perceived correct ideals and actions through undemocratically.

It’s seems that people are too stupid to be trusted to elect leaders. So democracy should be abandoned in favor of letting someone who “knows best” make the decisions. This is exactly where I think trump supporters are at even if most won’t admit this is where they are at. It’s where I’m at personally but I would be making very different choices. The idea of compromise and everybody making concessions is a pipe dream I think. There will be winners and losers. And because of the robber barons even the winners will be losers

 

[alasdairm]

It's in Project 2025. As are a few things we are in the thick of right now.

come on man. trump said on a number of occasions that he had absolutely nothing to do with project 2025. can we please drop this?

This is even more surprising in that CA allows for deducting your state and local taxes from your taxable income number thereby meaning CA residents pay a lower federal tax

you mean deducting your state and local taxes on your federal return?

if so, it's not california allowing you to do that. the irs is allowing you to do that.

and it's not just for california residents. residents in any state can deduct their state taxes but there are conditions:

• you have to itemize deductions (obviously)
• you can deduct property tax
• you can deduct either income tax or general sales tax
• the total deduction may not exceed $10,000

No, he's a bit more efficient than that. Initial Rescissions of Harmful Executive Orders and Actions - explicitely lists 78 Biden OE's Trump undid in one swell foop. They are all listed there in the link you provided. That is demonstrably a lot of 'Biden crap' considering his auto-pen signed 162 during his term. Nearly HALF are undone.

good point. thank you.

it is a lot of biden crap but i'd argue, even after this clarification, the statement that "he is just undoing Biden's crap" with eos is, still, laughable nonsense.

alasdair

 

[kris66]

I can’t beleieve anyone would on its face say things are objectively going well. But I understand why some people support it because I’m kind of at the point myself where I wound support an authoritarian and violent government that forces my perceived correct ideals and actions through undemocratically.

It’s seems that people are too stupid to be trusted to elect leaders. So democracy should be abandoned in favor of letting someone who “knows best” make the decisions. This is exactly where I think trump supporters are at even if most won’t admit this is where they are at. It’s where I’m at personally but I would be making very different choices. There will be no compromise or middle ground, Americas civil war never ended, the shooting never even fully stopped. The robber barons have also become efficient at exploiting the never ending civil war.

I think what you are saying is you have a lack of trust in the intelligence and common sense of the American people to make good decisions. The trouble is, do we trust politicians to make all our decisions for us without giving us any input? Believe me, we really don't want that. That is what North Korea has. But I understand your frustration.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I think what you are saying is you have a lack of trust in the intelligence and common sense of the American people to make good decisions. The trouble is, do we trust politicians to make all our decisions for us without giving us any input? Believe me, we really don't want that. That is what North Korea has. But I understand your frustration.

That exactly what I’m saying. Unfortunately the robber barons will always hijack a leader and corrupt them and anyone with principles will be destroyed before they get near power (see Bernie sanders).

So any authoritarian that gains power will fuck everyone over in the end.

I’m just explaining the rationale for why people are ok with abandoning democracy

 

[Quasimoto]

Can anyone who supports or voted for Trump explain to me how these tariffs benefit US citizens?

The people who vandalized gas stations with "I did that -Biden" stickers will now perform a perfect 10 score mental gymnastics routine to explain why Trump raising prices on EVERYTHING and not just gas is a good thing.

"I voted for Trump because grocery prices are too high."

Fookin weetaded

 

[nuttynutskin]

Can anyone who supports or voted for Trump explain to me how these tariffs benefit US citizens?

The people who vandalized gas stations with "I did that -Biden" stickers will now perform a perfect 10 score mental gymnastics routine to explain why Trump raising prices on EVERYTHING and not just gas is a good thing.

"I voted for Trump because grocery prices are too high."

Fookin weetaded

I don't support him anymore or am a total expert on tariffs, but basically to try to generate revenue and get other countries to lower their tariffs. But what's really happening is other countries are responding with retaliatory tariffs and he's starting a potential trade war. He seems intent on isolationism which is great because apparently we have the means to produce whatever we want cheaply and at the drop of a hat. Lol Basically he's just trying to bully other countries instead of working with them which seems to be his modus operandi in general.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Can anyone who supports or voted for Trump explain to me how these tariffs benefit US citizens?

Trump has been talking about these tariffs since the 80s. He can never admit he was wrong or even changing his mind isn’t justified to himself. Because of his pride and stupidity he’s too dumb to realize the world has changed in the last 45 years and maybe he should change his original hypothesis - so the whole planet has to go along with it for some fucking reason.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

The Repug budget bill is being hurried through. It has tax cuts favoring the wealthy and SS cuts. Cutting govt programs and tariffs are how they want to pay for it. They have to make us pay for the cuts but use smoke and mirrors to do so. Funny thing is, the budget bill still increases the deficit. Republican, recession, rinse, repeat.

"The resolution aims to make tax cuts that were enacted during Mr. Trump's first term permanent while also authorizing $1.5 trillion in additional tax cuts and raising the debt ceiling by as much as $5 trillion."

Senate on track to adopt GOP budget plan after marathon vote series

Votes are expected to last through the night before a final vote on the budget resolution.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[-=SS=-]

Looks like the Great Reset is back on the menu boys

 

[4DQSAR]

I have mentioned this but don't the US tarriffs only kick in on the 9th?

We have been witness to the current US government rowing back on tarriffs before now and it's still possible that if other nations specifiy their own tarriffs, the equasion might be recalculated. That said, it's possible that the use of sanctions as a more general threat has produced uncertainty among investors. That might take longer to recover.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Of note, it was Biden's admin that approved the use of Signalfor such comms. And both parties have used it extensively - which I find very at odds with how we pressure our gov't employees to NOT hide things. We have security levels on information, we have Fauci et all actively avoiding leaving comms where FOIA can access them, we have congress persons (again, of both parties) who use the app. It's just weird a black/back channel comm system is so prevalent in a country that values transparency, and we hold none of those parties accountable.

But, the use of Signal is an 'oh, btw'. The real nut here is how/why the private chat included someone it shouldn't. As you note, we have no idea how much communication is done outside public view. We simply don't know. We know this time because those involved fkd it up. Badly. THAT is the real problem, not which tools they choose to use - it wasn't hacked, it wasn't leaked by weak or compromised staffers, it was an error that shouldn't happen. Oopsie!

Why do you think the use of Signal equates to hiding things? Hiding it from who? And how?

If the information is emailed between parties, is that hiding? I don't know who is emailing what to who

The use of Signal by criminals is yes, done to hide by using end to end encryption to prevent any entity that might intercept the packets from reading them. Governments and various other organizations have this ability within their own borders, and in others, whether we like that or not.

Signal prevents communications from being intercepted as long as they are sent to the correct user who has the keys to decrypt the packets. Its a very solid protocol used by many governments, activists, and other organizations to secure communications.

I think you have a misunderstanding of the purpose of encryption and what these technologies actually accomplish. The government already uses encryption in communications all over the place, the use of signal in the government is actually a good thing if you care about cybersecurity.

None of that prevents user errors

What's the acronym, PEBKAC?

 

[4DQSAR]

Signal prevents communications from being intercepted as long as they are sent to the correct user who has the keys to decrypt the packets. Its a very solid protocol used by many governments, activists, and other organizations to secure communications.

Isn't that a bit of a myth? Unless the OS is secure, neither is an application running under that OS?

I freely admit not to knowing the OS those particular Signal users were using, but I've read that the US government has a list of requirements for secure communication and has done for some years.