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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

US Politics the 2025 trump presidency thread

Well you did expend many words on the subject of how ineffective AI was. How it failed to 'interperate gestures' and so on, and on, and on. You also asserted 'my search engine works better for Twitter - which it doesn't'. Web crawlers don't differentiate between sites. It's simply the case that search engines shufflte the results to place results that most closely match previous results you clicked on admittedly weighted (somewhat) by how popular a site is. But at the end of the day - they profit (directly and/or indirectl) from providing the links people actually click on.

Again, this isn't a secret. If any product 'appears' to be free - YOU are the product.

So it seems odd that someone would dismiss AI then, only after someone points out that the search engines use AI, claim to know already. It's easy to claim you knew something AFTER someone provided evidence including references. So forgive me for not believing you. Because I don't. I think you are just too arrogant to admit being ignorant of something so basic.

I'm sure my opinion is of no interest to you but people are free to review your posts. The few times you added comments, it showed an extremyl shallow understanding of each topic. People are free to decide. But I guess that is why so many people just ignore your posts. I just ty to see the best in everyone. But someone who tells so a transparent lie? That make any future effort pointless. Because you uncritically parrot sources that align with your prejudices. I'm glad I was able to expose the process involved. But again, condemped by your own words - so you didn't learn THAT either.

The Duning-Kurger effect in all it's glory.

As for delayed sleep. Yes, it's something I'm also familiar with. Trying to go to bed just as all the birds strike up the morning chorus is tough. Hypnotics are of no value as they only work for a few weeks. Take them for longer and you are back to square one with the addition of having a dependency. I used to live somewhere that had all night shopping so would quite regularly go out at 4 or 5AM to do some shopping. Exercise helped me, but we are all different. I moved into the 'sticks' so come 10PM, everything closes until 8AM. I'm still trying to work out what stratergy to try.
 
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Trump both sides quote



Who: Donald trump and questioning reporter discussing the events of Charlottesville 2017



What: Donald trump referring to a group of neo Nazis , claims that within their number were very fine people, clarifies that they did not petition to protest as a Neo-Nazi group



Where: Charlottesville



When: August 12, 2017



Why: The far-right rally had been organized in part to protest the planned removal of a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee. Hundreds of Ku Klux Klan members, neo-Nazis and other white nationalists — emboldened by the election of President Donald Trump — streamed into the college town for one of the largest gatherings of white supremacists in a decade. Some dressed in battle gear.



Direct quote:

There’s blame on both sides-trump

And if you reported it accurately; you would say(sic: the same)- trump

They killed a person. Heather Heyer died. - reporter

The Neo nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville. - another reporter

Excuse me. They didn’t put themselves down as (sic: Neo Nazis) and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were “very fine people”, on both sides, you had people in that group, excuse me excuse me, I saw the same pictures as you did, you had people in that group (the not Neo Nazis) that were there to protest the taking down to them a very very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert e Lee to another name - trump



George Washington and Robert e Lee are not the same person. - reporter



George Washington was a slave owner. So? George Washington a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington lose his status? are we gonna takedown statues to George Washington?

How about Thomas Jefferson?

What do you think of Thomas jefferson? You like him? Ok good

Are we gonna takedown the statue, cus he was a major slave owner, now are we gonna take down his statue?

So you know what, it’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people, and I’m not talking about the Neo Nazis or the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally, but you had many people in that group other than Neo Nazis and white nationalists and the press has treated them absolutely unfairly, In the other group, also, you had some fine people, but you also had trouble makers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and the baseball bats, you got a lot of bad people in the other group (sic: the counter protestors to the Neo nazi white nationalist protestors)



Source video :



Intepretation: trump says that among the Neo Nazis there were good people trying to protest the tear down of statuary and that among the unpermitted protestors there were a lot of bad people whom could be identified by their black clothing.

Trump effectively states that there were fine people among the Neo Nazis who wanted to preserve statuary, and likewise that there were some fine people among those who wanted to support the statuary removal.

This, in effect, is the origin of the “very fine people on both sides.” Quotation which comes from this direct quote

“But you also had people that were “very fine people”, on both sides.”
 
alasdairm said:
lol



alasdair
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I've lost a ton of $ in the past month and a half, and I'm invested quite conservatively (NVDA, TPL, and a US total market index fund)
Trump fucked the stock market in his first term too with this tariff lunacy.
Democrats are consistently better for the economy and better for all classes (including and primarily the wealthy), and that is why wealthy right-wingers tend to support them.
 
My favorite conspiracy theory is that Trump supporters only exist in the conclaves in which they do exist. Meaning, on the internet, when a trump supporter seems to have no clue what they’re talking about but supports their own position vehemently; defends their position despite being shown why that position cannot be true, feigns understanding a situation completely to support their position, or agrees with the action of the figurehead and the resulting disempowerment of the nation state to which they belong as being part of the plan to “drain their swamp” which is baiting their voters to believe that they were draining the swamp when they were selling spots to fill the swamp with a conglomerate of rich billionaires worldwide, supporting a Russian lead attack on America lead by orange man bad and opposed by a bunch of people with trump detangement syndrome who are saying “this looks, feels, and seems like a coup.”

Merica fuck yeah

A great tidal wave of stupidity to ruin what little we had in this world because you so hated your countrymen you would rather see them imprisoned, executed, criminalized and otherwise forgotten than ever remember again that they were part of the group of great Americans who made America great; What America becomes now is no longer a vision of the good that a government for the people and by the people can be, but a testament to how government can talk a big talk, and it can dog a doge as it can dodge tax codes, put billionaire president musk into office, and campaign on “hate your neighbor”, while doing nothing but making a swamp where a government used to be.

Drain their swamp.

Oh and the conspiracy, they don’t say anything of value because the majority of them are language models programmed to attack democratic positions and defend conservative positions in every conversation online such that the conservative voter does not feel so isolated. They don’t say anything of value because they don’t say or think anything. They’re probably programmed to run certain profiles based on current events.

Hunters laptop!
 
arrall said:
I've lost a ton of $ in the past month and a half, and I'm invested quite conservatively (NVDA, TPL, and a US total market index fund)
Trump fucked the stock market in his first term too with this tariff lunacy.
Democrats are consistently better for the economy and better for all classes (including and primarily the wealthy), and that is why wealthy right-wingers tend to support them.
Click to expand...

www.forbes.com

Gold Hits New Record: Trump's Tariffs, Inflation Fears Drive Safe Haven Surge

Gold is up 44% over the last year, outpacing the S&P 500’s 25% return even in a bull market for stocks.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

I don't think the above is really a surprise.

What I'm not sure if people know is that many banks are struggling to obtain sufficient gold. We now only have a fractional gold reserve and a friend wanted to convert a lot of crypto to gold the moment it became apparent that Donald Trump had won the presidency.

Now he's recieved a confirmation that he will be supplied the gold at whatever the price was when he asked for it... but there is a wait of MONTHS.

As for removing all legal controls of crypto.... well I've always considered it in the same light as gambling, but at least with tradition gambling, the punter had at least some idea of the odds. I admit, It's not my field, but does removal of legal controls make crypto even more risky?

I think people need to forget making a profit and just work out the lowest risk investment they can obtain. I've read there is land in the US that sells for $50/acre. I mean, I PRESUME it's scrrub, but it's LAND. There is an old farmer's saying 'buy land - god isn't making any more of it'.
 
helpingout said:
Trump both sides quote
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"Both sides" indeed. As I said previously, "both sides-ing" that rally was really the most egregious thing he was doing.
helpingout said:
clarifies that they did not petition to protest as a Neo-Nazi group
Click to expand...
As I also previously said, that rally was advertised as a white supremacist rally. The name of it was, "Unite The Right", not "protest statues"

Screen-Shot-2025-03-11-at-4-36-14-AM.png



One of the main organizers (and one of the speakers) was Jason Kessler. A well known Neo-Nazi. Look up that list of speakers and you will find the same credentials and reputation right down the line. Well known Neo- Nazi influencers and speakers every one. I'm sure they filed as a protest against statue removal but they advertised as and were organized by the far right and neo-Nazis.

So, Trump saying they "did not file" as a neo-Nazi rally is true, I'm sure. Why in heaven's name would they do that?
It's one more example of Trump giving one select piece of data to mislead from reality. A half truth is a whole lie.

They were there for violence and a confrontation.

1.jpg


Shield plans online, etc..

2.jpg


The first night of the rally was really the most important to consider. Streams of neo-Nazis chanting, "Jews will not replace us" marched on a crowd of peaceful counter demonstrators at a statue, encircled them, and beat the hell out of them. We've all seen at least part of footage of that.
Look hard for good people.

The next day, the main rally, the counter protestors were ready to protect themselves. They had bear spray, etc.. Did I mention that the permit had been revoked and helicopters were telling the rally to disperse through bullhorns? When the Nazis encountered push back, one got angry and drove his car into the crowd, killing one person and injuring 35.



So, again, Trump trying to "both sides" this was actually the most egregious thing he did.
If there were any people there to peacefully protest the statues after all the very clear advertising and online communication that it was a neo-Nazi rally, I'm sure that by the day of the rally they had bailed seeing that it was nothing but a violent brawl by then.
It actually started as one. I'm thinking the Tiki torch march and attack the first night might have been a clue

helpingout said:
you got a lot of bad people in the other group (sic: the counter protestors to the Neo nazi white nationalist protestors)
Click to expand...
That was the actual point of his little speech, trying to protect his (Proud) boys and say the counter protestors were at fault, too. They weren't.
helpingout said:
Intepretation: trump says that among the Neo Nazis there were good people trying to protest the tear down of statuary and that among the unpermitted protestors there were a lot of bad people whom could be identified by their black clothing.
Click to expand...
We've been over this. He did, very halfheartedly say, "Neo-Nazis bad", but also said the people protesting neo-Nazis had a lot of bad people.
There were few, it could be argued very easily no, good people on the neo-Nazi side by the day of the murder by car, and the counter protestors were defending themselves from attack.
Even Snopes (Snoopes?) said in it's often quoted fact check that the "fine people on both sides" statement was patently false.

And, as said, the permit had been revoked. They were all "unpermitted". Where did you cut and paste this from? I'm seeing a little slant here.
 
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Screen-Shot-2025-03-11-at-5-28-39-AM.png


The much smaller crowd of peaceful protestors are gathered around the statue about to be attacked by the Tiki torchers encircling them to prevent escape.
Whole video really shows this wasn't organized as anything other than a white supremacist, neo- Nazi rally. If you have any illusions that this was the Friends of Robert E. Lee having a picnic with a few bad eggs, watch this video.
We forget, and they rewrite. It's the lies that have me as active as I am.
 
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It's just an example of how authortarian popularism isn't bound by a coherent set of idiological values.

Normalizing neo-nazi beliefs probably won Donald Trump many more votes than it cost him.

So on a purely pragmatic basis, it made sense for him to normalize such behaviors. In fact, underligning the 'might is right' paradigm may have been a conscious choice. I don't know.

I've noted that there seems to be a cult of personality which in no way is the preserve of the (now outated) left <---> right metric.

If I had to point to the single model Donald Trump's MAGA movement most closely seems to mimic, it would be the Roman empire.

The Ceaser (Dictaror) with the cult of personality surrounding him to the point where they were officially worshiped as 'living gods' with temples and priests.
The patricians who through the cursus honorum, wealth and the whim of the dictator officially governed (both politically and militarily) in his name)
The wealthy elite from whom the patricians were selected (officially through the cursus honorum but graft and patronage were integral) - ceasers could and did destroy those who disagreed even on minor matters).
The People (plebeans) who had no power. They voted in 'tribes' and voting only took place in Rome itself so 99% of them couldn't actually vote). Only the wealthy had the means of travel to cast their votes.

There are a few more subtilties such as the equeties (knights) who, again, paid for their rank took minor judicial, religious and military roles but membership was at the whim of the ceaser. But most importantly, althoufh they were still a minority, they were formed into as many tribes as the plebeans so added to the veneer of a democratic process although it was said that a single equte vote was worth 120 pelbian votes.

BTW everyone but the plebians had to have their weath tied up in land within Italy. Ceasers would often seize land owned by plebians... and sell it to the elites at inflated prices. Since the judges, jurors and court officials were all drawn from people who had already bought land, the plebians had no recourse. One day they owned their land, the next they were working the same land but now owned by someone else!

Then the various non-Romans who (legally) lived within the empire and were often used as the scapegoat. I believe the great fire was blamed on Christians from the east. No evidence was provided but just as today people feel the 'truthiness' of a statment based on ther prejudices, were happy to punish that minorty in some quite terrible ways. The use of torture and execution were both so widespread that the jobs went to palace officials. Torturers (tormentors) and Executioners (carnifex) were well paid careers - they even got pensions. Likewise those who supplied wild animals for public executions were almost always equites and competition was fierce.

Finaly (and certainly not least) were the slaves. Although figures vary, it's estimated that around ⅓ of the Roman population were slaves. Although many were eventually freed, they had few paths open to them to even gain the rights of the plebians (such as the grain dole). Generally such rights required them to take employment in the most dangerous professions such as the Vigiles who were part fireman, part police officers. Given that the only other forms of law and order were reserved for the wealthy elite and above, even an 8 year contract saw less than 50% of them survive.

I think it also worth noting that the Roman empire had a pantheon of gods but also maintained an entire system of prieshoods (flamines) - cults whose role it was to control the worship of each of the 15 'significant gods. They were granted huge amounts of social power and although the little girls were supposed to be selected by lot to join the house of the Vestals, in truth it was another veneer with the daughers of flamen making up the entire cast.

The result was that the vast majority of people simply took no interest in politics understanding that they had no power and even criticism of those in power could result in death,

So what did those im power do to REMAIN in power? Well, to be seen to give SOMETHING to the people and to make people feel that it was given in thanks rather than as a distraction. Juvenal correclty stated 'panem et circenses' (bread and circuses). To be fair, there were actually quite a few other high-visability acts that one one hnad demonstrated that the elites cared for the people, but equally made it clear that for these, the people should feel gratitude.

BUT

One thing one must understand about ancient Rome was that it's economic success almot entirely relied on continuous conquest and subjigation of the peoples it conquored. I believe I am correct in thinking that around 90% of taxation returned to the capital as did seized items of all descriptions from slaves to silver, from statues to silk. Rome was histories largest consumer for over 1500 years. So IF Donald Trump seeks to replicate this model, it requires the US to continually seize assets from other nations.

WHY

Why did the Roman empire finally collapse. A question to which the answer is almost certainly 'many things' but Gibbons fmously stated that it was 'loss of civic virtue' that eventually saw the fall of Rome. It's unclear exactly what he meant but one example is that only those born free and born within the Roman empire could joint it's military (the legions). As people recognized that the fact that there was ALWAYS conflict and that disabled soldiers got no support, those who served for 20 years were being given useless land to 'farm' they chose not to be part of what Vespasian termed his 'finanical sponges'.

I'm not saying that IS what Donald Trump is planning, I just read more and more history and am struck by the parallels. I think a lot of people presume that authortarian governments dislike organized religion. But in every case I have studied, the leaders (knowingly or unknowingly) recognized that through religion they could control people more efficiently.

Believe me, it's not a future I wish for. Totalitarian governments are based on extremism but I think it important to ask if the man who lived under the rule of Franco would experience the world any differently than the man who lived under Stalin. Whatever the professed 'vision', disenfranchisement of the population is ALWAYS a key element. But unlike Franco or Stalin, I suspect Donald Trump would still wish for the veneer of democracy to remain.
 
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kris66 said:
Does anyone besides me think DT is mentally ill?? 😳
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With Biden in the race, it was the choice between the sleepy uncle and the crazy uncle. I just said that one to someone and they rolled their eyes and said, "batshit crazy".

'Course, his followers will say it's 4d chess when it's just the fact that, if you are dealing with a big dude who is obviously crazy you are very careful and even try to placate him.
You also try to get away from him, don't support him and, most importantly, try to take him down if he shows any weakness even days or months after any confrontation.
 
alasdairm said:
well, i hope you're all ready to buy a tesla because it's now illegal to not buy a tesla!



jfc what a collection of clowns.

alasdair
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I notice he always addresses the conservatives. Does he not realize he serves both parties? Rhetorical questions, he's an idiot.
As much as I didn't like some of Trudeau's policy's at least he addressed us all and just said Canadians.

Gonna be a long 4 years
 
Guaranteed Musk will get back every penny he lost plus a few billion in contracts.
He didn't sacrifice something for nothing.
 
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