🌟🌟 Social 🌟🌟 The 2025 Recovery & Social Thread

[LucidSDreamr]

Maybe looking into ACT would help you out a little. Stephen Hayes “a liberated mind” is a good place to start. In the book he says that it helped a bunch of people deal with chronic pain and desperately that something like 40% of a specific group of people with opiate use disorder were able to get off opiates. I hope it helps! It’s helping me a ton

Thanks l. I just read through the Wikipedia article. At the is level of review, it seems like a lot of these skills are similar to those I’ve developed by reading a lot of books on chronic pain such as “the way out” and “unlearn your pain “ as well as books that teach utilizing mindfulness meditation.

Needless to say there has been a lot of mindfulness meditation going on the past two weeks during the final stages of the taper and the week off methadone so far. All you can do under the crushing weight of pain and fear is meditative and try to calm the response (panic and fear). It is very helpful.

What I see about ACT that is in addition to the skills I already have are points 5 and 6 of the method

5 Values: Discovering what is most important to oneself.

6. Committed action: Setting goals according to values and carrying them out responsibly, in the service of a meaningful life.

if I do have any of the skills possibly taught in 5 and 6; they would’ve have come through immersion in NA/AA. But they are sparse.

For 5, values. Not many. Only my love for my wife. This is the purpose greater than myself and my suffering. Otherwise, I’m quite nihilistic. Maybe there is some values concerning helping those in need that I don’t know; but truthfully- the empathy for strangers isn’t strong enough to override my own suffering.

For 6: also I’m not very goal oriented when it comes to my own mental health and recovery. With my mental health and recovery; I more try to take it day by day and stay in the moment - this is what they drill into you in recovery so it seems in contrast somewhat with ACT #6. This could be a problem with too much of the “day by day” because there is not a commitment to not resume methadone not matter what happens. There is a reservation that if the pain is severe enough - I would resume using it.

I’m sure ACT material would be a good read from what I see to build on tools I already have and take new kernels of skill for living with pain.

Thanks for the suggestion. Typing this stuff out here is helpful because I’m not much of a journaler - which I know I should be - but this doesn’t sort of fill that deficit when I write out these responses to you.

What I find most difficult about these sorts of mindfulness based techniques is using them when life becomes extremely busy with work. When you are not working and can sit at home and relax and meditate all day it’s easier. When you have to commute and deal with work and life everyday; these techniques become difficult


I still have a lot of suicidal ideation and it doesn’t neccissarily disappear when I get out of pain. It did first manifest after I experienced chronic pain but there was something learned that persists even when the pain lets up. It’s all based on fear of experiencing the inevitable suffering that most ppl experience when they age and the body decays. Some of it is based upon the mundaneness of life and a sort of apathy. Like even if I would say travel to a new country or some other novel experience - something has set in where I’ve lost much of my interest and passion for doing things that most ppl would consider fun. This is somewhat of a separate issue but i wonder if it maybe isn’t.

 

[helpingout]

Thanks l. I just read through the Wikipedia article. At the is level of review, it seems like a lot of these skills are similar to those I’ve developed by reading a lot of books on chronic pain such as “the way out” and “unlearn your pain “ as well as books that teach utilizing mindfulness meditation.

Needless to say there has been a lot of mindfulness meditation going on the past two weeks during the final stages of the taper and the week off methadone so far. All you can do under the crushing weight of pain and fear is meditative and try to calm the response (panic and fear). It is very helpful.

What I see about ACT that is in addition to the skills I already have are points 5 and 6 of the method

5 Values: Discovering what is most important to oneself.

6. Committed action: Setting goals according to values and carrying them out responsibly, in the service of a meaningful life.

if I do have any of the skills possibly taught in 5 and 6; they would’ve have come through immersion in NA/AA. But they are sparse.

For 5, values. Not many. Only my love for my wife. This is the purpose greater than myself and my suffering. Otherwise, I’m quite nihilistic. Maybe there is some values concerning helping those in need that I don’t know; but truthfully- the empathy for strangers isn’t strong enough to override my own suffering.

For 6: also I’m not very goal oriented when it comes to my own mental health and recovery. With my mental health and recovery; I more try to take it day by day and stay in the moment - this is what they drill into you in recovery so it seems in contrast somewhat with ACT #6. This could be a problem with too much of the “day by day” because there is not a commitment to not resume methadone not matter what happens. There is a reservation that if the pain is severe enough - I would resume using it.

I’m sure ACT material would be a good read from what I see to build on tools I already have and take new kernels of skill for living with pain.

Thanks for the suggestion. Typing this stuff out here is helpful because I’m not much of a journaler - which I know I should be - but this doesn’t sort of fill that deficit when I write out these responses to you.

What I find most difficult about these sorts of mindfulness based techniques is using them when life becomes extremely busy with work. When you are not working and can sit at home and relax and meditate all day it’s easier. When you have to commute and deal with work and life everyday; these techniques become difficult


I still have a lot of suicidal ideation and it doesn’t neccissarily disappear when I get out of pain. It did first manifest after I experienced chronic pain but there was something learned that persists even when the pain lets up. It’s all based on fear of experiencing the inevitable suffering that most ppl experience when they age and the body decays. Some of it is based upon the mundaneness of life and a sort of apathy. Like even if I would say travel to a new country or some other novel experience - something has set in where I’ve lost much of my interest and passion for doing things that most ppl would consider fun. This is somewhat of a separate issue but i wonder if it maybe isn’t.

Everything’s connected.

Just know that I’m rooting you on. Even if you just end up choosing to moderate your methadone use by only using when your in pain, even if you have to cope with ideations, if you can’t identify your values, whatever your struggle is I’m here for you and I’m cheering you on.

I want you to make it through this day and the next and the next.

I’m glad you have a wife whom you love. Our values form up the core of whom we are. It’s okay to value being a loving partner and husband.

Where your at is ok with me.

Moderation is okay with me.

Not making big changes is okay with me.

I like you where you’re at now.

You’re trying to make things better for yourself.

Maybe another value you have is self-love.

Have you heard about SMART recovery?

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Everything’s connected.

Just know that I’m rooting you on. Even if you just end up choosing to moderate your methadone use by only using when your in pain, even if you have to cope with ideations, if you can’t identify your values, whatever your struggle is I’m here for you and I’m cheering you on.

I want you to make it through this day and the next and the next.

I’m glad you have a wife whom you love. Our values form up the core of whom we are. It’s okay to value being a loving partner and husband.

Where your at is ok with me.

Moderation is okay with me.

Not making big changes is okay with me.

I like you where you’re at now.

You’re trying to make things better for yourself.

Maybe another value you have is self-love.

Have you heard about SMART recovery?

I’ve been to smart recovery but I prefer NA. Everybody at smart in my area is a newcomer and there aren’t any veterans with a lot of clean time. The brotherhood seems much stronger in NA.

Re “Even if you just end up choosing to moderate your methadone use by only using when your in pain,”

this is what I’ve always tried to balanace. But then you have to deal with the fact you are physically dependent even if the pain stops you can not sleep or work without some. Also, my specific pain issue is extremely sensitive to opioid induced hyperalgesia and stress (withdrawl) induced hyperalgesia; so i beleieve using opioids is both the cure and the cause of pain. Like I said before, the only time I ever had sustained pain free life for over a year was when I was clean off opioids - I can’t help but beleieve this is no coincidence.

Thanks for your encouragement.

 

[helpingout]

I’ve been to smart recovery but I prefer NA. Everybody at smart in my area is a newcomer and there aren’t any veterans with a lot of clean time. The brotherhood seems much stronger in NA.

Re “Even if you just end up choosing to moderate your methadone use by only using when your in pain,”

this is what I’ve always tried to balanace. But then you have to deal with the fact you are physically dependent even if the pain stops you can not sleep or work without some. Also, my specific pain issue is extremely sensitive to opioid induced hyperalgesia and stress (withdrawl) induced hyperalgesia; so i beleieve using opioids is both the cure and the cause of pain. Like I said before, the only time I ever had sustained pain free life for over a year was when I was clean off opioids - I can’t help but beleieve this is no coincidence.

Thanks for your encouragement.

Seriously. Using opioids for their intended purpose can be so difficult. Cure is the cause is the cure.

You’re absolutely in a tough battle and I commend you for taking up arms. Hoping for the best solution which sounds like continuing your struggle to abstain from opioids. Abstinence can be a really powerful tool. I have to abstain from alcohol myself. Mostly because I can abstain from opioids. It’s difficult but I manage, but when I start drinking, my inhibition goes out the window and I start really wanting to do drugs. Abstinence from alcohol is necessary for me to abstain from opioids.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Seriously. Using opioids for their intended purpose can be so difficult. Cure is the cause is the cure.

You’re absolutely in a tough battle and I commend you for taking up arms. Hoping for the best solution which sounds like continuing your struggle to abstain from opioids. Abstinence can be a really powerful tool. I have to abstain from alcohol myself. Mostly because I can abstain from opioids. It’s difficult but I manage, but when I start drinking, my inhibition goes out the window and I start really wanting to do drugs. Abstinence from alcohol is necessary for me to abstain from opioids.

Thanks.

I agree with you about alcohol. It is the drug which causes the most fiending for other drugs that I’ve done. Also causes the worst and selfish behavior of any drug I’ve ever done. Also one of the most physically damaging drugs I can think of.

I remember when I had to quit drinking about 8 years ago i was overweight and lost 40 lbs in 6 months just from quitting. I had always had lower back pain left from a surgery but after losing that extra 40 lbs my back never hurt again.

If I had kept drinking I think it would’ve ended my marriage because it made me act so nasty to my wife.

 

[Ds]

So I'm finally graduating the treatment program that I've been in! I have been either in a hospital, detox, inpatient program and php/sober living program since 11/1/24. Really 10/31 is when I entered the hospital for detox, and the things they say are true with mental health patients around Halloween.
I'm just extremely glad that I'll be moving on from this hell hope!! & I'll be moving to the next phase of my recovery. I'm still going to be doing a recovery program but I'll be in my home town.
I'm a little nervous, but it's a good nervous feeling.

So what I'm going to do as program goes is there is this therapist, psychiatrist, medication management, group therapy and IOP therapy all under one roof, and I plan to get involved with that program. I might go into IOP while I'm there, not really sure, but i know I'm going to utilize their therapy program, group therapy and medication management.
Then I'm going to go to some good AA meetings that I know about, and I'm probably going to try and find someone to work the NA program with. That's the goal.
I'll be living in the oxford house hopefully. I just hope that they can hold my spot until Friday.

 

[kiely]

I'm a little nervous, but it's a good nervous feeling.

I am glad that you are staying busy. You can do this. Please.

You're the best. And you deserve to stay that way.

..... Seriously My Best Blessings and Wish's to you.

I don't know how you are always so strong. I know you can .....

sending love you way.

k

Be good to yourself ... take cares.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

So I'm finally graduating the treatment program that I've been in! I have been either in a hospital, detox, inpatient program and php/sober living program since 11/1/24. Really 10/31 is when I entered the hospital for detox, and the things they say are true with mental health patients around Halloween.
I'm just extremely glad that I'll be moving on from this hell hope!! & I'll be moving to the next phase of my recovery. I'm still going to be doing a recovery program but I'll be in my home town.
I'm a little nervous, but it's a good nervous feeling.

So what I'm going to do as program goes is there is this therapist, psychiatrist, medication management, group therapy and IOP therapy all under one roof, and I plan to get involved with that program. I might go into IOP while I'm there, not really sure, but i know I'm going to utilize their therapy program, group therapy and medication management.
Then I'm going to go to some good AA meetings that I know about, and I'm probably going to try and find someone to work the NA program with. That's the goal.
I'll be living in the oxford house hopefully. I just hope that they can hold my spot until Friday.

. What substances did you detox off if I may ask?

 

[Ds]

. What substances did you detox off if I may ask?

Hey, i was coming off of alcohol, heroin, DXM, Nitrous and vape shop weed pens.
It started with the Nitrous then DXM, and eventually it led to alcohol, and having a few drinks made me decide to just say fuck it because i was already going to fail a drug test.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

8 days off methadone after a taper down to 1 mg and then cold turkey.

This is my first time coming off methadone although I’ve coming off of other opioids and subs before.

I can sleep 4 or 5 hours a night now. Still tons of tension (lump on the throat, anxiety etc); waves of fear and despair and worry about life (meditation is all I can do to try and calm down) my digestion is literally “shit”. Spasms in the GI tract, pain, gas.

It doesn’t seem to be getting worse but it doesn’t seem to be getting better.

I know 8 days is nothing. When can I expect to start improving?

 

[helpingout]

8 days off methadone after a taper down to 1 mg and then cold turkey.

This is my first time coming off methadone although I’ve coming off of other opioids and subs before.

I can sleep 4 or 5 hours a night now. Still tons of tension (lump on the throat, anxiety etc); waves of fear and despair and worry about life (meditation is all I can do to try and calm down) my digestion is literally “shit”. Spasms in the GI tract, pain, gas.

It doesn’t seem to be getting worse but it doesn’t seem to be getting better.

I know 8 days is nothing. When can I expect to start improving?

I don’t know when exactly for methadone. But you will start feeling better soon and after that you’ll start feeling a lot better. Then you’ll start feeling like it was almost a different person who underwent that suffering. You’ll probably get hit by paws after that and get pretty sad. Then that will lift too.

for the opiates I’ve done it took about two weeks before I started feeling better and began the upward climb.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I don’t know when exactly for methadone. But you will start feeling better soon and after that you’ll start feeling a lot better. Then you’ll start feeling like it was almost a different person who underwent that suffering. You’ll probably get hit by paws after that and get pretty sad. Then that will lift too.

for the opiates I’ve done it took about two weeks before I started feeling better and began the upward climb.

Yea suboxone took about two weeks for me to start feeling normal.

Fentanyl a bit less.

I’ve never had paws on previous kicks even staying clean for 1.5 years so hopefully I avoid paws.

My physical pain is such a major stressor that any emotional or anxiety problems always seem like nothing to me relative to the physical pain.

But lately the Gastrointestinal pain has been sometimes overshadowing my physical pain.

I’ve been eating like a horse. Rice, meat, fish, cereal, protein smoothies, apples bannnans. But the GI contractions are painful. Even though I’m not constipated in the way that opioids constipate you I “feel” like I feel like I always need to go even if my bowels are almost totally empty. The smallest turd will hurt and make me feel constipated. The rectum always feels tight and contracted. Sorry for all the poop talk but this feels like the most open space to discuss that stuff.

For the GI I’ve been taking miralax and some fiber, this is the course of action recommended to me by a GI doctor during past attempts. Also nitroglycerin cream up the rectum to relax the pelvic muscles.

I was on an antidepressant that also causes a lot of GI pain (this was for my chronic pain)…but I stopped that also because the GI pain is almost more of a problem sometimes.

 

[helpingout]

Yea suboxone took about two weeks for me to start feeling normal.

Fentanyl a bit less.

I’ve never had paws on previous kicks even staying clean for 1.5 years so hopefully I avoid paws.

My physical pain is such a major stressor that any emotional or anxiety problems always seem like nothing to me relative to the physical pain.

But lately the Gastrointestinal pain has been sometimes overshadowing my physical pain.

I’ve been eating like a horse. Rice, meat, fish, cereal, protein smoothies, apples bannnans. But the GI contractions are painful. Even though I’m not constipated in the way that opioids constipate you I “feel” like I feel like I always need to go even if my bowels are almost totally empty. The smallest turd will hurt and make me feel constipated. The rectum always feels tight and contracted. Sorry for all the poop talk but this feels like the most open space to discuss that stuff.

For the GI I’ve been taking miralax and some fiber, this is the course of action recommended to me by a GI doctor during past attempts. Also nitroglycerin cream up the rectum to relax the pelvic muscles.

I was on an antidepressant that also causes a lot of GI pain (this was for my chronic pain)…but I stopped that also because the GI pain is almost more of a problem sometimes.

I still think I’ve only had like one or two normal poops since quitting dope. That hasnt improved. I eat mostly whole food so a bit of a disappointment that.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I still think I’ve only had like one or two normal poops since quitting dope. That hasnt improved. I eat mostly whole food so a bit of a disappointment that.

How long ago did you quit? What do you mean by “whole food”? Do you take any supplements for digestive health?

I worry about having developed something that fucked my GI tract like IBS-C or narcotic bowel syndrome

I already permanently damaged my bladder with ketamine (this is the source of my chronic pain and the reason I was using opioids the past 8 years)….so I’m reallly paranoid about damaging other organ systems. It helped me quit smoking because I was worried about lung damage, but smoking was done just out of addiction not to cope with pain.

 

[Ds]

Man my roomate is drunk as fuck, and i tried contacting 2 people at the 'main' sober living/program branch about him and they haven't done shit. Fucking sucks man because he's done this multiple times before. I just don't know what to do. Tomorrow I'll probably file a grievance about it, and leave a fucking bad review about this place when I leave. Sorry piece of shit doesn't care about other people trying to get clean.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Man my roomate is drunk as fuck, and i tried contacting 2 people at the 'main' sober living/program branch about him and they haven't done shit. Fucking sucks man because he's done this multiple times before. I just don't know what to do. Tomorrow I'll probably file a grievance about it, and leave a fucking bad review about this place when I leave. Sorry piece of shit doesn't care about other people trying to get clean.

Is he being belligerent and annoying or it’s just creating a temptation?

 

[helpingout]

How long ago did you quit? What do you mean by “whole food”? Do you take any supplements for digestive health?

I worry about having developed something that fucked my GI tract like IBS-C or narcotic bowel syndrome

I already permanently damaged my bladder with ketamine (this is the source of my chronic pain and the reason I was using opioids the past 8 years)….so I’m reallly paranoid about damaging other organ systems. It helped me quit smoking because I was worried about lung damage, but smoking was done just out of addiction not to cope with pain.

I quit heroin two or three years ago. Then I quit subs a month after that. Then I quit kratom about 150 days ago. Whole food means not processed just like food items. So yogurt eggs nuts meats fish grain potatoes. I eat yogurt daily but most probiotics make be depressed. I had one good poop this week tho so maybe my fortunes are changing!

 

[helpingout]

I quit heroin two or three years ago. Then I quit subs a month after that. Then I quit kratom about 150 days ago. Whole food means not processed just like food items. So yogurt eggs nuts meats fish grain potatoes. I eat yogurt daily but most probiotics make be depressed. I had one good poop this week tho so maybe my fortunes are changing!

Are any of you all doing a recovery program? I do SMART and ACT. I’m not really into 12 steps. It’s not worked for me in the past. I’m not really a spiritual person. The only thing tying me to god is that my grandmothers are likely going to be in heaven. I am already a spiritual person and my god says, « god helps those who help themselves. No spiritual awakening is going to save me.

 

[chris_p]

Very close to doing something stupid again. Holding fast on 'sobriety' with just benzos weed and alcohol. Two more weeks I am telling myself but it's getting harder every day, every movement feels like my brain is being shocked by a million electric needles, no matter how much xanax I take cannot reliably sleep for longer than 2-3 hours a day.

Had terrifying sleep paralysis last night, I remember in my dream I was looking at my monitor and there were words growing out of it it like it was trying to speak to me and there was a face of a clown right above it, immediately after woke up in complete sleep paralysis unable to move and I kept hearing laughter but my eyes were closed and all I saw was darkness. I was stuck in that paralytic state for maybe 2-3 minutes. It's happened twice now in the past two days. I just feel like giving in so I can feel normal again for a few days.

 

[Coffeeshroom]

@helpingout congrats on your progress. The whole food thing for me was always if I can't kill it or grow it, I don't eat it.

On the pooping subject, for me it was different and still is, after getting of subs I always get stomach cramps in the morning and then have to go and been like that ever since. Whether on or off opiods except H I'm always regular. And my stomach cramps that feels like a cat trying to claw out is always gone and feel fine the rest of the day after my morning session.

@LucidSDreamr mind me asking how you dropt your methadone dose, weekly? And at how much at a time.
Currently trying to taper my methadone dose down but not pushing myself hard.