US Politics The 2021 Former President Trump Thread - I look very much forward to showing my financials, because they are huge.

[alasdairm]

you forgot "used money from a charity his family ran to, among other things, buy a portrait of himself"



alasdair

 

[mal3volent]

you forgot "used money from a charity his family ran to, among other things, buy a portrait of himself"



alasdair

i randomly added this to the list, I apologize for my error!

 

[JessFR]

"falsely claimed that he turned down being Time’s Man of the Year,"

Rofl, I question how much of an honor being times man of the year even is. Especially given how many other crazy dictators have been on it.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

times person of the year is for anybody who has shook or changed the world like no other in that year. without care if was because they were evil or good.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

Answer my direct questions with direct answers

1) how would Trump know, better than anyone else, an exact number of how many votes were missing. Afaik, the president has no hand in counting votes.

2) If it could be done upon request, why was it not done correctly in the first place? Do you think they just kind of gave up halfway through looking because they wre lazy, and just needed a polite request to actually finish the job?

3) is there any hard evidence Trump knew info that no one else did?
3.b) If he had hard evidence, why did he never present it in a clear manner, and just Twitter posted "LIBS STOLE 10BILLION VOTES"?

4) if so, how did he procure this info, while no one actually responsible for the election did?

5) why have the vast majority of his cronies, even fox news, finally admitted he was full of shit? Did the reptilians clone them and make the clones LIBS?

6) Most importantly, why do you find this man's words trustworthy? Do you honestly think he had no motivation to lie? He has lied more than any president to ever exist. If you'd like a link of his literal thousands of public lies, I can get it for ya. He has set hundreds of precedents of lying, cheating, and stealing, very publicly, for over 3 decades. Find me (non related) people who have worked with him long term, and still trust him, and for each one, I will find 5 who have been scammed by him.

1) Don't understand the question.
2) I didn't say it could be done upon request.
3) Not that I'm aware of.
3.b) You'd have to ask him.
4) How am I supposed to know?
5) Because he's full of shit.
6) I don't find him trustworthy.

You're making a lot of incorrect assumptions.

 

[JessFR]

times person of the year is for anybody who has shook or changed the world like no other in that year. without care if was because they were evil or good.

I know. That's my point. More so that people who drastically impact the world are frequently evil, like Hitler, Stalin *cough*trump.

It's not exactly an honor I'd be racing to accept.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

i Don't think any one US president will be able to get it. Its not really that one man which changes things it the entire US system. For most part the US gets trotting along in the same direction regardless of who is in charge. I mean that is what the constitution is for so one bad actor can not radically change the United states overnight.

 

[JessFR]

Which is fortunately why trump was unable to stay in power when the voters fired him.

The American political and legal system proved to be more powerful than the office of president, thankfully.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

If Trump had the sort of dictatorial power of Hitler or Stalin, do you really think he'd be mass murdering people? Evil is a bit much. The guy is an asshole, no doubt, but it's kind of offensive to the people who died in concentration camps to compare modern America to Nazi Germany.

Violence is the worst outcome. Most people agree on that. There's no governmental action more extreme than murdering people. Trump hardly has the record in that department.

I don't know why a couple of white deaths in America is so more outrageous than than all the deaths that stem from external conflicts instigated by the US government under Obama and Bush... and every other administration except maybe Carter.

People make these weird broad exaggerations, like "democracy is under threat" about the Capitol riot but nobody has the guts to talk honestly about BLM rallies.

In many ways - honestly - I prefer the Capitol riot to BLM riots. There is no value in destroying shops and vandalizing personal property. Whereas, while I strongly disagree with the Capitol rioters, at least they're doing it because they believe in something. What they believe in is totally wrong and misguided, of course, but (on some level) I like seeing passionate people stand up to the government... even if I disagree with what they say.

The US needs to keep that fundamentally free spirit alive. At any moment, people should be ready to stand up against a tyrannical government. Left wing leaning individuals do this with Trump. He doesn't get away with anything. People scrutinize and criticise everything he says and does.

The US cannot be a dictatorship. Trump was impeached twice for pretty minor offensives relative to murder. Everything he tried achieve in office was challenged by the other side, which happens with every administration. Obama struggled to pass his healthcare bill and Trump couldn't even finish construction of the wall on the border. US presidents really don't have as much power as people think they do. Dictatorial power is ultimate. It doesn't exist in America.

For most part the US gets trotting along in the same direction regardless of who is in charge.

Indeed. Left vs right is an illusion of choice. People like to think they have the reins of their lives. As a community, we like to believe we can steer the nation. The US has it's own momentum. The constitution is steering. Democracy isn't under threat. It's an illusion.

Everyday people don't get to make big decisions because that would be chaos. We don't vote on issues - we vote for people - and they pretend to try and change course according to their campaign promises. But the system isn't designed so that one person (or one party) is anywhere near approaching dictatorial power. We have stripped government of that potential. We have learnt from the past. The downside is nothing really gets done. Still, better that than a dictator at the helm.

I honestly have no idea what Trump would be like if he was a dictator. There is no evidence to suggest that he'd be a violent dictator. Your mileage may vary. I don't believe he wanted to incite the Capitol riot and cause the death of five people. He's far from perfect, but I don't think he's the murdering type.

Obama was charming and charismatic. He was careful with his words. Trump is none of these things, but (really) none of these things really matter. Do they? I suspect one of the main things that separates people who passionately hate Trump from people who don't is: Trump haters perceive the stage personas of other politicians as actual people.

When Obama was elected, I didn't get swept away by the hype at all. Politicians are politicians. They can't be trusted. The more charming they are, the more suspicious I become. This is something that has benefited Trump enormously. Right from the very beginning, he showed us the whole iceberg - offensive and unpleasant, Trump was Trump in all his glory - whereas, with Obama, you only get to see the tip of the iceberg. You have to imagine the rest.

I'm not naive enough to assume that politicians have my best interests at heart. It does me no good to have blind faith in anyone. My default iceberg is worst case scenario. I assume that Hilary is more evil than Trump because she could be so it's safer that way.

I'm not sure about Biden. He seems like a nice guy. I think he's just an idiot. But, maybe that's his disguise. Obama distracts people with charisma. Biden pretends to be a moron.

Maybe Trump is wearing a disguise, but (if so) it's like Superman and Clark Kent. We can see it's the same person. Trump is unapologetically himself and I respect that. Unfortunately, he's also an asshole.

The Capitol rioters were a very small fringe group of extremists. I don't see it happening again. It seems like an isolated incident, to me. There's no evidence to suggest that there will be more uprisings. Democracy is it not under threat. The constitution remains iron-clad. The US political system isn't perfect, but it's stable.

I don't know why people exaggerate so much about Trump. After all the fear mongering and postulating over the past four years, nothing really terrible happened during his presidency. The guy is a PR nightmare and he's unpredictable, but he's just the figurehead of the Republican party which has it's hands tied by the Democratic party.

Trump's policies were never distinctly different than lots of other conservative politicians. People (including Biden and Harris) blame Trump for 400,000+ COVID deaths. During the debates, they both literally said the Trump administration was to blame for these deaths. Then, when Biden became president, he continued doing (more or less) what Trump did.

A Republican president was never going to lockdown the United States like Australia. It's not possible. Biden knows this, but he still pretended that Trump was in control. People need someone to blame. Trump is the guy everyone loves to hate.

People blame corporations and conservatives for climate change. It's easier to sleep at night if you think you are on the virtuous side of politics. Really, there is no virtuous side. Everybody is to blame for everything. Nobody is to blame for anything. We are all hypocrites.

The UK failed just as miserably as the US with COVID-19. I'm convinced both countries were destined to fail. It would've required a miracle for either of them to eliminate the virus. I don't believe the numbers would be significantly different right now if Biden or Hilary won the presidency in 2016.

To @JessFR and others who are still traumatized by the Trump era, look on the bright side. It's over. There's a new president and everything is okay. The sky didn't fall. If you guys truly think Trump is evil and dangerous, things didn't turn out that bad. You live in a great country.

Look at Russia. You can't run for two consecutive double terms as President. So, after Putin finished his first double term, he changed his title to Prime Minister and made his Prime Minister (Medvedev) President. Then, four years later, they swapped back... But, you can also only run for two non-consecutive double terms. So, he changed the constitution. This is a dictator.

The US is stronger than Trump. It is stronger than Biden. The reason you can't lockdown America is because you guys don't take any shit from anyone. The US is the gold standard of anti authoritarianism. It literally says in the constitution you are allowed to have weapons in case you need to shoot the government. You are safe. You live in a free country. Trump can't take that away from you.

The fact that he is the "worst president ever" really highlights how lucky you guys are.

Take a deep breath.

 

[JessFR]

Trump could absolutely return.

When Hitler tried to take over the first time, he failed and was put in jail, but got fairly light punishment because some in authority felt sympathy for his goals. Regardless noone would have thought he would ever return to power, but he did.

The biggest fortune, the reason trump will likely never turn into a Hitler, is that trump is incompetent to the level of self sabotage.

But it is NOT an excessive comparison. Movements like trump, populist movements built on fear and ignorance and intolerance and extremism, latching onto a cult of personality, are exactly how dictators come to power.

They don't start by executing people, but that's how it ends up.

Trump apparently saw no moral concerns in assassinating Soleimani. I don't believe for one moment that if he obtained such power that he would have any reservations about deeming fellow Americans the enemy in need of killing.

Trump IS like Hitler, and Stalin, and other mad dictators. It's just fortunate that he's so laughably incompetent, and relatively old.

I don't think trumps likely to become one of those dictators, but I think he could have been if the system hadn't done as good a job at stopping him, or if he'd been smarter.

And I think he's opened the door for a future, smarter populist leader to take America down the path to somewhere terrible.

Don't think it can't happen to us. It can happen anywhere once the circumstances align.

 

[Zephyn]

The US is the gold standard of anti authoritarianism.

xD

 

[JessFR]

Maybe at once time, and maybe we could have been. But now we have about a cancer in our population, an extremist movement that puts its cult like leader above the rule of law.

That repeatedly defends him when he uses the color of law to attack his political rivals, or even allies who no longer bow to his will.

I love America, but we face a poison from within.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

I don't believe for one moment that if he obtained such power that he would have any reservations about deeming fellow Americans the enemy in need of killing.

I'm sure that is true, but it's not based on anything.

And I think he's opened the door for a future, smarter populist leader to take America down the path to somewhere terrible.

Don't think it can't happen to us. It can happen anywhere once the circumstances align.

Anything can happen. I don't mean it's literally impossible, but it is so unlikely that it isn't worth worrying about. A piano might fall on your head tomorrow.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

(1) ...an extremist movement that puts its cult like leader above the rule of law (2) That repeatedly defends him when he uses the color of law to attack his political rivals, or even allies who no longer bow to his will... (3) I love America, but we face a poison from within.

(1) Conservatives haven't become something new. The people who voted for Trump are the same people that voted for Bush. These extremist rednecks - like the guy with horns in the Capitol building - didn't just materialize out of thin air recently.

(2) Politicians have always been ruthless when party members break rank. As for attacking political rivals, Trump didn't invent the two party system. It's been broken for a long time.

(3) There's always has been poison and their always will be.

 

[JessFR]

(1) Conservatives haven't become something new. The people who voted for Trump are the same people that voted for Bush. These extremist rednecks - like the guy with horns in the Capitol building - didn't just materialize out of thin air recently.

No that's true, but the Republicans of the days of Bush embraced different political ideals even if a portion of the voters craved something more extreme.

I grew up around a bunch of people on the right, I would say the ones who would go on to become trump fanatics were the ones who even then despised trump for calling Islam a peaceful religion.

Over time the republican party has gone from representing more sensible American conservatism, with extremists allying with them because there was little else other than minor parties like the constitution party and others.

But since trump, the extremists have hijacked the rest of the republican party and turned it into a cult of trump.

The republican party is now republican in name only. It worships a man who's had several wives and scandals involving women, what would have been seen as anti family once. Who is quite obviously secretly an atheist. Who promotes isolationism over interventionism. And who cares nothing for the rule of law or the constitution, again no matter what they proclaim.

The republican party of old wasn't perfect, God no, but you could at least respect to a degree, certainly compared to what it is now. And it was at least a party, with a platform beyond trumps personal glory.

Trump has harnessed the extremist minority of the right and used them to take over and crush the mainstream American right and its values. It wouldn't surprise me if ultimately the republican party collapses and a new right wing party takes over.

That said, a lot of trumps voters come from people who were formerly independents, not Republicans.

Conservatives, or this populist phenomenon we call conservatives, are new, in the context of American politics. In the days of Bush it would have been almost impossible to become president, let alone on a republican ticket, when you were so obviously anti family and an atheist.

But that's no longer the priority. And the people who originally aligned with trump because he reflected their views have now been so taken in that they warp their views to match his.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

Solemani was a international terrorist who needed to be taken out. Iran was to scared to retaliate because they know with just a few american b-52 bombers iran would be dust in the wasteland.

 

[JessFR]

Solemani was a international terrorist who needed to be taken out. Iran was to scared to retaliate because they know with just a few american b-52 bombers iran would be dust in the wasteland.

Not the point, it's not about if he needed to die or not or if America was right to kill him (although personally I hate this extra judicial killing with no trial or oversight).

The point is trump clearly doesn't object to ordering someone's death. And I don't think he'd have any problem doing the same of Americans if he thought he could get away with it.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

obama droned so many people in so many countries from yemen to pakistain to afghanstain to syria to libya and iraq. Obama literally droned and killed thousands of cilivians in the middle east over his two terms. Yet you object to killing solemani which did not result in cilivan deaths.

 

[JessFR]

obama droned so many people in so many countries from yemen to pakistain to afghanstain to syria to libya and iraq. Obama literally droned and killed thousands of cilivians in the middle east over his two terms. Yet you object to killing solemani which did not result in cilivan deaths.

How nice of you to invent my position on the Obama administrations use of drone attacks on my behalf. :/

 

[birdup.snaildown]

The point is trump clearly doesn't object to ordering someone's death. And I don't think he'd have any problem doing the same of Americans if he thought he could get away with it.

Most presidents have ordered someone's death, so I don't see your point here unless you think most presidents would murder Americans. I don't see the connection.

How nice of you to invent my position on the Obama administrations use of drone attacks on my behalf. :/

He didn't do that.