US Politics The 2020 Trump Presidency Thread

[dalpat077]

When did he concede that Biden won? I saw headlines that said that, but couldn't find an actual quote or tweet from him that confirmed it. I assume it is just fake news?

This is where the notion that he'd conceded came from:



Same shit as the media pulled when they said that he had said to inject hand sanitizer!

 

[JessFR]

Thanks. This discussion is definitely one of my greatest accomplishments. I printed it out, framed it, and put it on my wall. This is a story I will be telling my grandchildren.



Sowing distrust in politicians and the media is one of the positive things Trump has done for America. You shouldn't trust your president. Like you said they lie as long as they don't think they will get caught... and you definitely shouldn't trust media.

Yes they do lie.

But it is possible for politicians to be untrustworthy but for trusting them to sometimes still be in the overall best interests of society.

For society to function at its best it needs government, it needs a united public.


What I'm saying ultimately, and this is probably a big part of how I form my views about who to support politically. Is it comes down to the intent of the leaders.

I would be far more likely to vote for a politician who's lied, but who I can believe has the best interests of the country at heart, than an honest politician who I believe doesn't have the country or its peoples interests at heart.

Which is why I hate trump, cause I don't see him as either.

 

[JessFR]

This is where the notion that he'd conceded came from:



Same shit as the media pulled when they said that he had said to inject hand sanitizer!

Actually that's incorrect. The notion of him conceding stems from two things he said. That was one but the other and the one I think is being discussed now was when he said on Twitter that Biden had won.

The interview was somewhere in the ballpark of Maaaaybe suggesting he knew he had lost, but I wouldnt call it much of a concession. And the latter one, on Twitter, was just the media overreacting. It didn't carry any indication of recognition of having lost on trumps part.

As for the injecting cleaning products.

I will agree that the media misrepresented trump at some points as far as what he actually said.

However what he actually said was still extremely reckless and dangerous. And following it there was a big jump in poisonings that were likely related to it.

Just mentioning the idea of using cleaning products internally was going to create the probability of idiots following through with it. Even if trump didn't actually say people should do it. Bringing it up at all still makes him responsible when the consequence wws easily foreseeable.

But you're right, the media's suggestion that he told people to inject bleech and shit, which I have seen in places, is highly misleading. It's just that the truth isn't much better. Cause the truth is still that trump said shit that could foreseeably put peoples health at risk, and by all indications did just that.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

I would be far more likely to vote for a politician who's lied, but who I can believe has the best interests of the country at heart, than an honest politician who I believe doesn't have the country or its peoples interests at heart.

Which is why I hate trump, cause I don't see him as either.

I'd vote for Trump if I was American because Biden (despite good intentions) is going to rape your economy. I totally understand why people hate Trump. He's a very difficult guy to like. I would much rather have dinner with Biden. On a personal level, Trump seems like total garbage... but he is better suited IMO to running the biggest economy in the world than a guy who is one brain cell away from a vegetable. Time will tell. Maybe I'm wrong about Biden, but he seems dangerously incompetent to me. Your average burning man hippy probably has the "best interests of the country at heart", but that doesn't qualify him (or her) for the position.

He actually said million instead of thousand four times about COVID. I just looked it up. First he said 120 million died in the democratic primary in June. Then he said 200 million died in September. Then in a town hall meeting in October he said 210 million died. Finally during a speech claiming victory over Trump he said 230 million died.

 

[JessFR]

The economy isn't everything.

We need a leader who will rebuild the western alliances, especially as the world grows more unstable. Like minded countries must come together.

Trump cuddles up to dictators and America's enemies while attacking her friends and damaging her alliances.

That has to stop, and Biden is the only chance right now to start getting things going in the right direction.

Neither America nor the world can stand 4 more years of this "america first" self destruction.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

Trump hasn't ruined relationships with allies or cuddled up to dictators from what I've seen.

People keep saying this. Not sure what I'm missing?

 

[dalpat077]

After the havoc one or two of my other (deleted) politically polarizing threads caused I've sat on my hands and stayed out of all of this because if I got started on this that would be the end of my days here for sure.

I hope that somehow there are enough Faithless Electors in the Electoral College to ensure that this Biden farce is overturned if for no other reason (but believe me there are many others) than to see the sheer look of terror on the faces of all of these reporters and the CEO's of the major news networks, half of Trump's staff, and half of the Republican Party themselves. I've never seen a bigger bunch of turncoats, hedging their bets on the fly, ever in my life. It's absolutely spineless behavior and disgusting at best.

And while I'm sure it matters to nobody: America for sure is off of my radar (written off) for good if the above doesn't happen. I said this before on the one post that I actually did post on one of these threads and that remains intact (I've typed many but stopped short of hitting the "Post reply" button): check your census data. That's why this has happened (even Al Sharpton, as much as it pains me to give him his due, in an interview on the BBC just yesterday, had the guts to put political correctness aside and note the major part that race has played in this election, albeit that his comments too left much to be desired). Believe me: your census data and future demographic predictions based on the current trajectory differ by only a very few percentage points and are borne out by the, current anyway, election results in spite of possible voter fraud, irregularities, anomalies (pick your poison) etc. If this election holds: there will never be another Republican President in the United States. And I know where this all ends up. Hopefully I'll not be around by then but hopefully this post and these forums will survive me: you have until 2040 - 2045 to turn things around.

And by the way (in reference to a post earlier on this thread): Putin puts state before the people. Same as Trump. All things being equal: at least the Russians can hold their heads up high and with pride until 2035!

 

[dalpat077]

However what he actually said was still extremely reckless and dangerous. And following it there was a big jump in poisonings that were likely related to it.

Just mentioning the idea of using cleaning products internally was going to create the probability of idiots following through with it. Even if trump didn't actually say people should do it. Bringing it up at all still makes him responsible when the consequence wws easily foreseeable.

No offense. But I thought more of the Americans than that. And frankly: anybody that misconstrued what he said, and was flimflammed by the media and their bullshit, deserves what they got. Ever heard of the Darwin Awards?

 

[dalpat077]

Neither America nor the world can stand 4 more years of this "america first" self destruction.

Again no offense: but how can you, as an American, even say such a thing? What, if I may ask, is the problem with "America First"?

If every country in the world followed suit we wouldn't have half the shit we have going on. You can still do business and be good neighbors without having to have everybody sleeping in the same bed as you.

Why does this come to mind right now:

 

[dalpat077]

Oh here you go i.e. turns out it's available as a podcast (interview with Sharpton) (sorry: it was Saturday not yesterday as mentioned in my previous post):

BBC World Service - When Katty Met Carlos, Bridging divided America

After a turbulent election, how can America be brought together?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[dalpat077]

And for good measure and in an effort to drive the point home have a good read of this (and feel free to correlate it with other statistical data published because I have):

3 ways that the U.S. population will change over the next decade

What does the U.S. population look like today, and what will it look like 10 years from now, in 2030?

www.pbs.org

Waiting patiently now for a Democrat to call this "Fake News" or "Fake Data"! Now wouldn't that be priceless!

 

[JessFR]

Again no offense: but how can you, as an American, even say such a thing? What, if I may ask, is the problem with "America First"?

If every country in the world followed suit we wouldn't have half the shit we have going on. You can still do business and be good neighbors without having to have everybody sleeping in the same bed as you.

Why does this come to mind right now:

What's wrong with America first is that America needs allies. We have enemies, countries who are opposed to our interests, and indeed those of the rest of the western world.

The west is stronger together than apart. Divide amc conquer.

That's why "America first" is bad. Because America first in practice is America alone.

No offense. But I thought more of the Americans than that. And frankly: anybody that misconstrued what he said, and was flimflammed by the media and their bullshit, deserves what they got. Ever heard of the Darwin Awards?

The president has a responsibility to all Americans. Not just the smart ones, not just the ones who voted for them.

It is breaking that responsibility to make statements that you know ahead of time will result in Americans dying or being injured.

And if the president didn't know his comments would cause that, then that simply means it's an incompetence problem rather than a negligence problem.

I want America to take back its place as a leader in the world. I want us to remain a world power. I want America to return to being part of the western community. None of that will happen under trump.

Frustratingly these used to be among the policies I supported of the Republicans. But somehow trump flipped that and now Republicans make excuses for Russia and oppose our alliances.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

What's wrong with America first is that America needs allies.

Is there any evidence that you lost allies under the Trump administration?

The allies need America more than it needs them.

He has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize three times by allies.

 

[dalpat077]

Oh well. I'm on a roll here (again) so may as well bring this ship to shore (and then I'll dodge the arrows coming my way for a while).

Some time a little earlier on another thread somebody found it unfathomable that I could not accept that there were possible irregularities in this election and that I was looking for a reason to doubt the results. After careful thought since then: it occurred to me that in the same way I'm incapable of not accepting that there's something amiss with these election results that others are just as incapable of even considering the possibility that there is indeed some foul play.

While I'm well aware of what it's like to be caught out and made to look like an idiot because of the media in general: is it really possible that every single video or report that you see (no matter where it is found) that details certain anomalies or even captures wrongdoing in plain sight is fake and made up? Forget about Trump and his antics. I'm talking about local networks and loads of individuals. I'm no lawyer. But I'm pretty sure that were this a murder investigation or the likes: a lot of the stuff being put out there would indeed qualify as being probably cause not? And which in turn would lead to a trial? So? Why not investigate further as opposed to the courts simply dismissing every claim out of hand? Sorry. Again. Doesn't smell right from where I'm sitting.

And lastly (and then time to duck): I find it hard to believe that any person would take the time and go to the trouble and incur the expense of running for President (not to mention the possible ramifications e.g. being ridiculed, personal life and business being exposed, the list goes on) unless they had a good reason for doing so. Bear in mind something: Trump is not a career politician. Who knows. Maybe he's the most patriotic President that you've ever had. Maybe he saw what was going down there and decided enough is enough and that he's going to do something about it. This unlike a career politician whose job it is to stay in power no matter what i.e that's their job and that's what they do and that's all they know how to do (Biden being a classic example). I'm not saying I'd have Trump around for dinner. But there's one thing I've no doubt about and that is his patriotism. And that would be good enough for me (no matter who he is groping or what he is eating for breakfast, lunch, and supper). But you all got too focused on his handling of COVID. My honest opinion is that if these election results hold: you're going to be dealing with far bigger problems in the years to come and long after COVID is but a part of the history books.

 

[dalpat077]

Is there any evidence that you lost allies under the Trump administration?

The allies need America more than it needs them.

He has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize three times by allies.

Isn't this thread priceless!

America's arch enemy has always been Russia not? Guess who got off their backside, put their pride in their pocket, and befriended President Putin. Who went to visit North Korea?

Actually. You know what. I'm going to post something in my next post that somebody sent me that appeared on FaceBook. I don't have a FaceBook account so it was brought to my attention by somebody else. I have no idea who wrote it. And while it may not be as eloquent as one would like: I think it says a lot. My only problem is that I cannot, or have not, fact checked the figures, but the gist of the post kinda sums it all up real nice in my opinion.

 

[dalpat077]

I have no idea who wrote this (suffice to say it wasn't me). But for sure it's worth a read and some ponderance. As I said: I cannot vouch for certain numbers quoted (and I'm sure somebody will point out errors if present).

"I'm not American, but I have to put it out there...

SORRY-NOT SORRY!!!! Let me be clear, I am not a Biden fan at all. He is corrupt, a liar, suffering from dementia and in my opinion a pedophile. He has done nothing to improve anything in 47/48 years in politics.
I truly believe Biden is just the stepping stone for Kamala Harris to take over the White House. Nancy Pelosi is already trying to put a 25th amendment in place to remove an unfit president. I don’t believe that has a thing to do with Trump having Covid. I think that’s to remove Biden if elected for dementia and Harris to take over.
This is my opinion so don’t bother to bash it, I haven’t bashed yours.

The clown in the White House just brokered two Middle East Peace Accords, something that 71 years of political intervention and endless war failed to produce.

The buffoon in the White House is the first president that has not engaged us in a foreign war since Eisenhower.

The clown in the White House has had the greatest impact on the economy, bringing jobs, and lowering unemployment to the Black and Latino population of ANY other president. Ever.

The buffoon in the White House has exposed the deep, widespread, and long-standing corruption in the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, and the Republican and Democratic parties.

The buffoon in the White House turned NATO around and had them start paying their dues.

The clown in the White House neutralized the North Koreans, stopped them from developing a further nuclear capability, sending missiles toward Japan, and threatening the West Coast of the US.

The clown in the White House turned our relationship with the Chinese around, brought hundreds of business back to the US, and revived the economy. Hello!!!!!!!

The clown in the White House has accomplished the appointing of three Supreme Court Justices and close to 300 Federal Judges.

This same clown in the White House lowered your taxes, increased the standard deduction on your IRS return from $12,500 for Married Filing Joint to $24,400 and caused your stock market to move to record levels over 100 times, positively impacting the retirements of tens of millions of citizens.
The clown in the White House fast-tracked the development of a COVID Vaccine - it will be available within weeks - we still don't have a vaccine for SARS, Bird Flu, Ebola, or a host of diseases that arose during previous administrations.

The clown in the White House rebuilt our military which the Obama administration had crippled and had fired 214 key generals and admirals in his first year of office.

This clown in the White House uncovered widespread pedophilia in the government and in Hollywood, and is exposing world wide sex trafficking of minors and bringing children home to their families.

The clown in the White House works for free and has lost well over 2 billion dollars of his own money in serving - and done all of this and much more in the face of relentless undermining and opposition from people who are threatened because they know they are going to be exposed as the criminals that they are if he is re-elected.

I got it, you don't like him. Many of you utterly hate and despise him. How special of you. He is serving you and ALL the American people. What are you doing besides calling him names and laughing about him catching the China virus ?????

And please educate me again as to what Biden has accomplished for America in his 47 years in office?
I’ll take a ‘clown’ any day versus a fork tongued, smooth talking hypocritical corrupt liar. Please let it be known, I am not sure I would want to have a beer with him (if he drank, which he doesn't) or even be his friend. I don’t care if I even like him. I want a strong leader who isn’t afraid to kick some ass when needed. I don’t need a fatherly figure - I already have one. I don’t need a liar - that's what Hollywood and CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS and the New York Times are for.

I don’t need someone to help me, but I also don’t want an obstacle or a demented, senile washed-up Swamp Monster.

God bless Donald Trump - the most unappreciated President in history.

Copy & Pass this on. " (Author unknown to me).

 

[birdup.snaildown]

@dalpat077

There are actually always irregularities in elections and there is always some amount of fraud. When recounts occur, the number is always different than the original count but it doesn't differ by much. In order to swing this election in Trump's favor there would have to be multiple times the most widespread fraud ever in a US election.

To argue that no fraud has occurred isn't sensible, but it also makes no sense to me to assume (without sufficient evidence) that widespread fraud or counting errors have occurred to such an extent that it would alter the result of this election. Biden would need to lose four or five states at this point. I don't see that happening.

Fraud occurs from both sides in practically every election in the world. I'm not aware of any vote count that is 100% accurate, but they (recounts) change the vote by hundreds not thousands.

Explainer: Why recounts rarely change the results of U.S. elections

U.S. President Donald Trump hopes a recount of votes will help keep President-elect Joe Biden out of the White House, but as common as recounts may be, especially for state and local candidates, only three in the last two decades have changed the result and none for a presidential...

www.reuters.com

"Recounts rarely upset the results of an election. When they have, it has been in cases in which only a few hundred votes separated the top two candidates.

A study last year by the non-partisan group Fair Vote concluded that states had conducted 31 statewide recounts between 2000 and 2019, and that the outcome changed in only three of them."

 

[birdup.snaildown]

smooth talking

That part made me laugh out loud.

One thing I found particularly disgusting about Harris and Biden during the presidential debates was how they blatantly lied about Trump ruining the economy. Every economy in the world has suffered as a result of COVID. China has cost the world economy something in the vicinity of ten trillion dollars.

 

[dalpat077]

@dalpat077

There are actually always irregularities in elections and there is always some amount of fraud. When recounts occur, the number is always different than the original count but it doesn't differ by much. In order to swing this election in Trump's favor there would have to be multiple times the most widespread fraud ever in a US election.

To argue that no fraud has occurred isn't sensible, but it also makes no sense to me to assume (without sufficient evidence) that widespread fraud or counting errors have occurred to such an extent that it would alter the result of this election. Biden would need to lose four or five states at this point. I don't see that happening.

Fraud occurs from both sides in practically every election in the world. I'm not aware of any vote count that is 100% accurate, but they (recounts) change the vote by hundreds not thousands.

Explainer: Why recounts rarely change the results of U.S. elections

U.S. President Donald Trump hopes a recount of votes will help keep President-elect Joe Biden out of the White House, but as common as recounts may be, especially for state and local candidates, only three in the last two decades have changed the result and none for a presidential...

www.reuters.com

"Recounts rarely upset the results of an election. When they have, it has been in cases in which only a few hundred votes separated the top two candidates.

A study last year by the non-partisan group Fair Vote concluded that states had conducted 31 statewide recounts between 2000 and 2019, and that the outcome changed in only three of them."

Nice post (as usual i.e. been reading your stuff carefully).

You're right. Damn sure there are irregularities here too (and we don't even have mail in ballots). But I think you get my point i.e. was just that as much as I'm incapable of accepting that there wasn't irregularities there's the other half that simply will not even entertain the notion that it's possible (not you obviously).

Then again (and this is where the ground becomes shaky unfortunately):

In some states there's a only a few thousand difference. Now (and this is where it becomes shaky as noted) what if mail in ballots were not verified (signature verification) for whatever reason (whether it be technical or other)? I could run off double the difference in some cases on a laser printer in a matter of a few hours probably. And if there were any truth to any of this: damn sure they'd do a better and more professional job (with the funds that they have at their disposal).

Anyway. The above aside. Getting rid of Trump for the sake of getting rid of Trump is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I just hope the Americans don't end up becoming as apathetic as we have here. You know. It chips away and chips away and when you look again it's all over bar the shouting.

And I sincerely hope that no matter what: Trump pulls the rest of the American troops out of everywhere and brings them home. Let those degenerates, wherever they may be, fight it out among themselves and wipe themselves out. Barney Frank spoke about this many years ago (and he was a Democrat no less) (and, ironically, a man for whom I have the greatest respect for). Ironically: this was back when the Democrats were worth something. And even more ironic: back then their policies were not that far removed from today's Republican policies (well his ideas and opinions were not anyway). Dunno if it'd be fit to post it here but there's an interview with Barney Frank on Charlie Rose from some years ago where he addresses the troops issue and NATO (and whole bunch of other pertinent stuff). Truth be told: if I was American and around there at that time I'd have voted HIM for President had he run. And lest I be accused of "Trump worship" it may be worth noting that I think Bill Clinton was one of the finest Presidents America has had (again: what he did in his spare time, how he did it, and with whom, and where, is of no consequence). But it seems to me that the Democratic Party has changed since those days. The sheer irony: they've somehow figured that the only way to stay in power (or regain power) is to give America away anyone and everyone who wants a piece of it! Doesn't sound too smart to me. Then again: I believe it's now known as "populism"?

Anyway. I'm figuring this should be the extent of my interference in the 2020 elections! Or what's left of them anyway.

 

[cduggles]

Perhaps if I was arguing against Trump it would be a different situation.

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