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The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

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Did you see the anti trump protesters pushing the little old man over?
Brave bunch of people assaulting pensioners.
 
The South is free from Kim and his dictator family, that's the entire reason there is a North and South Korea and not just "Korea".

I would but i have a real bad back

This made me laugh. You're a real charmer, Pete. It's real easy to say whatever from behind a screen...
 
Well, actually the reason is because we divided all the countries we beat in ww2 up between ourselves and the communists. We turned our halves into capitalist countries and the soviets turned theirs into communist countries.

All the communist countries turned into dictatorships while most of them collapsed (along with the soviet union itself), while all the capitalist ones largely thrived.

I'm sure it's a coincidence and the next communist state will be a people's utopia. :)

Yeah I know I'm being an instigator. :D
I'm also over simplifying things a little, but I can't help myself. Poking the left from time to time can be fun. As can poking the right.
 
The South is free from Kim and his dictator family, that's the entire reason there is a North and South Korea and not just "Korea".



This made me laugh. You're a real charmer, Pete. It's real easy to say whatever from behind a screen...
thanks but I'm not trying to charm you, I have a serious back condition that would make me not appropriate for combat
 
Well, actually the reason is because we divided all the countries we beat in ww2 up between ourselves and the communists. We turned our halves into capitalist countries and the soviets turned theirs into communist countries.

All the communist countries turned into dictatorships while most of them collapsed (along with the soviet union itself), while all the capitalist ones largely thrived.

I'm sure it's a coincidence and the next communist state will be a people's utopia. :)

Yeah I know I'm being an instigator. :D
I'm also over simplifying things a little, but I can't help myself. Poking the left from time to time can be fun. As can poking the right.
strictly speaking Korea wasn't in the Second World War, it was occupied by the Japanese.

The only reason there is a South Korea is because Stalin (perhaps foolishly) stopped at the 38th parallel and kept to wartime agreements that the US had no intention of sticking to. Had Stalin ignored the agreement and continued south there would be no US or other Western forces in Korea, the Communist United Korea would have most likely collapsed in 1989 or moved into Chinas sphere of influence and that would have been that. Moral of the story is do not do deals with America.
As for capitalism vs communism both systems can be degenerate.
The wheel does turn and eventually if America continues on its course it too will collapse, probably becoming some corporatocratic oligarchy and a fascist state and then collapsing to be reborn as something different. The Soviets couldn't afford their military expenditure and their economy became more and more inefficient with a connected party apparatchik class absorbing and misallocating more and more of the productivity of the Soviet Union, substitute financier for apparatchik and the MIC for the Party and that is the direction the USA is going. It is the capitalist version of the same cancer.
Trump is a financier creature and probably cannot see that the financial sector and the games it plays are not producers of wealth but are destroyers. As it stands the US cannot afford its expenditure, for a while the Exhorbitant Priviledge of the dollar as global reserve currency can paper over the problem, but the cracks are starting to get very obvious, made worse by Trump using the US dollar as a weapon. The imperial end game is not inevitable but there are very few politicians in the US that recognise there is even a problem let alone those that propose a viable solution.

Trump isn't making things better, the best that can be said is that he has done a lot less damage than he could have.
 
thanks but I'm not trying to charm you, I have a serious back condition that would make me not appropriate for combat
at least you don't have bone spurs.
you could drive drones, you just have to sit on a large leather recliner with a playstation controller. Just remember to hit the wedding parties and hospitals first.
 
strictly speaking Korea wasn't in the Second World War, it was occupied by the Japanese.

The only reason there is a South Korea is because Stalin (perhaps foolishly) stopped at the 38th parallel and kept to wartime agreements that the US had no intention of sticking to. Had Stalin ignored the agreement and continued south there would be no US or other Western forces in Korea, the Communist United Korea would have most likely collapsed in 1989 or moved into Chinas sphere of influence and that would have been that. Moral of the story is do not do deals with America.
As for capitalism vs communism both systems can be degenerate.
The wheel does turn and eventually if America continues on its course it too will collapse, probably becoming some corporatocratic oligarchy and a fascist state and then collapsing to be reborn as something different. The Soviets couldn't afford their military expenditure and their economy became more and more inefficient with a connected party apparatchik class absorbing and misallocating more and more of the productivity of the Soviet Union, substitute financier for apparatchik and the MIC for the Party and that is the direction the USA is going. It is the capitalist version of the same cancer.
Trump is a financier creature and probably cannot see that the financial sector and the games it plays are not producers of wealth but are destroyers. As it stands the US cannot afford its expenditure, for a while the Exhorbitant Priviledge of the dollar as global reserve currency can paper over the problem, but the cracks are starting to get very obvious, made worse by Trump using the US dollar as a weapon. The imperial end game is not inevitable but there are very few politicians in the US that recognise there is even a problem let alone those that propose a viable solution.

Trump isn't making things better, the best that can be said is that he has done a lot less damage than he could have.

Hey you'll get no argument from me that trump is a wrecking ball. And you're right, more capitalism isn't inherently a good thing. I believe in constrained capitalism. Capitalism regulated to prevent anticompetitive practices, over privatization, ecological damage, false advertising, exploitation of workers, etc.

I just think that for all capitalisms flaws, communism is far far worse. Communism can only work if human beings stopped behaving like human beings. It fails to work with human nature, and inevitably results in rapid corruption. Capitalism works a lot better, it just has to be kept under a measure of oversight and control. A total free market ultimately results in severe problems of its own.

I can't help but find it absurd that people still think we should follow communism. Its been given more of a chance than most philosophies on how to structure society, and the results have been largely the same every time.
 
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Hey you'll get no argument from me that trump is a wrecking ball. And you're right, more capitalism isn't inherently a good thing. I believe in constrained capitalism. Capitalism regulated to prevent anticompetitive practices, over privatization, ecological damage, false advertising, exploitation of workers, etc.

I just think that for all capitalisms flaws, communism is far far worse. Communism can only work if human beings stopped behaving like human beings. It fails to work with human nature, and inevitably results in rapid corruption. Capitalism works a lot better, it just has to be kept under a measure of oversight and control. A total free market ultimately results in severe problems of its own.

I can't help but find it absurd that people still think we should follow communism. Its been given more of a chance than most philosophies on how to structure society, and the results have been largely the same every time.

Agreed, even though Karl Marx had a fine beard. We probably disagree about how to constrain and contain the worst excesses of capitalism. I tend to look towards a purer capitalism as being more likely to deliver than tightly regulated capitalism because the gaming of the system.

Regulation is usually written by those you are trying to regulate so the problem then becomes regulatory capture which is the current problem. Look at the Pharma lobbying for healthcare or finance lobbying for bank rules. If you allow the rules to be written by bureaucrats and politicians, the players realize it is easy to buy off the politicians, if as with the finance sector they literally can create the money they use to bribe the politicians then the problem of capture and corporatocy is inevitable leading to crony capitalism with revolving doors and all the other faults we see now. Benito Mussolini, who had quite fantastic hats, said Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. I think by that definition USA 2019 is Facist. Mussolini ended up upside down hanging from a lamp post.
Trump is a facist also by that measure, as is Hillary Clinton and creepy Joe.

I am in favor of deregulation and the government stepping back from tight managing and regulating, to the lightest possible touch. If for example the banks were fully deregulated and told "you are on your own", then some banks would still do dumb things, they would go bankrupt and die. Banks that were more sensible would survive and so the system would have more stability and robustness overall. Instead we regulate them in a dumb way and back stop their stupidity. No bank would create credit if that loan was not capable of liquidating itself, likewise asset bubbles would be much harder to inflate because the risk to the lenders would be so much greater. Trying to write new law like a modern Glass-Steagall when the banks will lobby to twist the law and expand it to put in loopholes is futile.

The legislature in a Modern Democracy should be about the size of the Bible or the Koran or a Harry Potter novel depending on your preference, that way everybody could read and understand it. So the legislation would have to be common sense short and restrict itself to things that matter. Cutting away the reams of legislation would also reduce the power of the State to be arbitrary mendacious and capricious.

Monopolies and cartels need governments to maintain them, the natural state is for them to form, dominate for a bit get lazy and complacent then decay. The most of the monopolies and cartels use government interference and regulation to shut out competition, to make barriers to entry to make it difficult for competitors. The US pharmaceutical industry is the poster child for this.

I am also in favor of removing corporations' individual rights or radically altering the way corporations are treated in law, they are not citizens they are not real people, removing a corporations' right to be treated as a person would solve a lot of problems. Either the owners and management of a corporation should be liable and responsible for the corporations actions, which they are not at the moment and then the corporation can have citizens rights or they can be insulated and protected as they are now in which case the corporation has no rights.

The irony of saying people are fundamentally bad corrupt and evil given the chance and need to be controlled by regulation rules and law, so we hand all the power and control to a bunch of people in government who are themselves fundamentally bad corrupt and evil and need to be controlled by regulation rules and law and so on, its turtles all the way down. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
 
I tend to think a totally or nearly free market would allow human nature to corrupt the system too easily because those with the most money would be unable to be regulated to not trample everyone else. I agree our current implementation of capitalism makes it really easy for the ones who need to be regulated to determine the laws, however, if lobbying was not allowed, if we had laws to make it much more difficult for money interests to game the system - instead of what we have where it's expected that money interests will game the system, it's the status quo of how it's done - I think we would have the best chance of having a stable, relatively equitable, healthy-functioning society. Of course corruption would seep in, it would seep into any system. But our system is hardly "standard" capitalism I don't think, at this point.

I agree about your point that you illustrated with the example regarding banks. I think the government should not step in to save irresponsible companies like that. It was so fucking crazy the car companies, airlines and banks that got bailed out and went on to spend the bailout money on bonuses and shit. Absurd. However that's only one kind of regulation. The regulation I think is helpful in preventing corruption is antitrust laws, making sure companies are paying their share of taxes, making sure workers are being paid fairly, etc.

I am also in favor of removing corporations' individual rights or radically altering the way corporations are treated in law, they are not citizens they are not real people, removing a corporations' right to be treated as a person would solve a lot of problems.

Yes, fully agreed, that piece of legislation was unbelievably ridiculous and transparent. "Corporations are people, too! Human rights for corporations!" WTF? :?
 
Agreed, even though Karl Marx had a fine beard. We probably disagree about how to constrain and contain the worst excesses of capitalism. I tend to look towards a purer capitalism as being more likely to deliver than tightly regulated capitalism because the gaming of the system.

Regulation is usually written by those you are trying to regulate so the problem then becomes regulatory capture which is the current problem. Look at the Pharma lobbying for healthcare or finance lobbying for bank rules. If you allow the rules to be written by bureaucrats and politicians, the players realize it is easy to buy off the politicians, if as with the finance sector they literally can create the money they use to bribe the politicians then the problem of capture and corporatocy is inevitable leading to crony capitalism with revolving doors and all the other faults we see now. Benito Mussolini, who had quite fantastic hats, said Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. I think by that definition USA 2019 is Facist. Mussolini ended up upside down hanging from a lamp post.
Trump is a facist also by that measure, as is Hillary Clinton and creepy Joe.

I am in favor of deregulation and the government stepping back from tight managing and regulating, to the lightest possible touch. If for example the banks were fully deregulated and told "you are on your own", then some banks would still do dumb things, they would go bankrupt and die. Banks that were more sensible would survive and so the system would have more stability and robustness overall. Instead we regulate them in a dumb way and back stop their stupidity. No bank would create credit if that loan was not capable of liquidating itself, likewise asset bubbles would be much harder to inflate because the risk to the lenders would be so much greater. Trying to write new law like a modern Glass-Steagall when the banks will lobby to twist the law and expand it to put in loopholes is futile.

The legislature in a Modern Democracy should be about the size of the Bible or the Koran or a Harry Potter novel depending on your preference, that way everybody could read and understand it. So the legislation would have to be common sense short and restrict itself to things that matter. Cutting away the reams of legislation would also reduce the power of the State to be arbitrary mendacious and capricious.

Monopolies and cartels need governments to maintain them, the natural state is for them to form, dominate for a bit get lazy and complacent then decay. The most of the monopolies and cartels use government interference and regulation to shut out competition, to make barriers to entry to make it difficult for competitors. The US pharmaceutical industry is the poster child for this.

I am also in favor of removing corporations' individual rights or radically altering the way corporations are treated in law, they are not citizens they are not real people, removing a corporations' right to be treated as a person would solve a lot of problems. Either the owners and management of a corporation should be liable and responsible for the corporations actions, which they are not at the moment and then the corporation can have citizens rights or they can be insulated and protected as they are now in which case the corporation has no rights.

The irony of saying people are fundamentally bad corrupt and evil given the chance and need to be controlled by regulation rules and law, so we hand all the power and control to a bunch of people in government who are themselves fundamentally bad corrupt and evil and need to be controlled by regulation rules and law and so on, its turtles all the way down. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.

Testify!
 
Well, actually the reason is because we divided all the countries we beat in ww2 up between ourselves and the communists. We turned our halves into capitalist countries and the soviets turned theirs into communist countries.

All the communist countries turned into dictatorships while most of them collapsed (along with the soviet union itself), while all the capitalist ones largely thrived.

I'm sure it's a coincidence and the next communist state will be a people's utopia. :)

Yeah I know I'm being an instigator. :D
I'm also over simplifying things a little, but I can't help myself. Poking the left from time to time can be fun. As can poking the right.
Did you know stalin let the germans get away from the last few battles because he wanted the towns and cities they captured to be intact the real reason d day happened was to stop communist invasion of europe which the only thing standing in its way was the German army. How prevelant is communism now I think only China ie communist now?
 
Did you see the anti trump protesters pushing the little old man over?
Brave bunch of people assaulting pensioners.
not suprised one bit its always the same people who try to bring other people down to their level America is dangerous anyone could whip out a 9mm a knife isnt gonna do shit, shame the pensioners wearnt carrying
 
not suprised one bit its always the same people who try to bring other people down to their level America is dangerous anyone could whip out a 9mm a knife isnt gonna do shit, shame the pensioners wearnt carrying
It was in the uk mate. Bunch of pussy anti trump supporters assaulting elderly person
 
It was in the uk mate. Bunch of pussy anti trump supporters assaulting elderly person
the uk?? Fuck sometimes you hear of a smackhead robbing an old lady but fuck cant believe it was in the uk i hope everyone knows who they are and they beat up elderly people should fight someone their own size the cowards
 
do you think anybody here celebrates that guy being physically assaulted?

trump fans get super bent when they feel they're equated with racists. not all people who oppose trump behave like this. cake and eat it? yep.

curious that you chose to not mention the woman who can be clearly heard to say "if you act like that, you act like donald trump so don't" or those who immediately helped him, asked him if he was alright and made sure he wasn't injured.

selective outrage is something...

trump's a douchebag and so is whoever pushed this guy to the ground.

alasdair
 
It was in the uk mate. Bunch of pussy anti trump supporters assaulting elderly person
Is their a video was no one around i respect elders so much not just cus i should but cus they have been through so much from wars, famine polution it makes me sick to think about someome beating them up if I saw that happening theirs no way I would just walk away
 
There was hundreds if not thousands of people there. Some were there welcoming trump and some were protesting against his visit.
The oldun wasn’t beaten up but was shoved to the ground. He was proper old too
 
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