The 2019 Trump Presidency Thread

[JessFR]

Exactly. Trump must be evaluated as trump. The world does not revolve around fucking Hillary clinton. We don't look at someone like trump and say.. "oh yeah he's easily half a Clinton". Or in my opinion that he's at least 3 clintons (FYI, 3 clintons is 3 times as bad as clinton).

 

[JGrimez]

I just find it amusing because politicians have always been notoriously full of shit. Many (most?) of them lie all the time even more than Trump does. But only since Trump have people been so obsessed with LIES LIES LIES. It's just seems hypocritical and weak. Although I actually am a bit glad that people are holding Trump to a higher standard. Now if you take all of his lies, or mistakes, or half-truths, or creative politics, or campaign promises then yea arguably you could call him "a liar".
But the reason that so many people don't give a shit is because they take into account all the nuance, and possibly even assess every single "lie" on its own, before they recoil in horror about how egregious it was. Honestly - I've yet to hear him lie about something that actually matters, or he may have said something untrue in order to safeguard personal or sensitive information. Reporters can be very tricky. His supporters don't care about that BS. Even people that don't like Trump at all still support his policies and results.

So it's usually just Trump screwing up some number or a small fact that doesn't matter and most people don't care, but for the anti-Trumper that will be one more tally on the Big Bad Liar checksheet. For example Trump said the hamberders could reach to the moon. Oh snap sorry, liberal fact-checkers to the rescue. Those burgers definitely would NOT reach to the moon - and that lie is worse than if he knew about mishandled Special Access Program intelligence and told the American people that he didn't.

So I'll wait around for someone to tell me his most egregious or illegal lie, or if not y'all can just keep yelling liar liar liar.

 

[alasdairm]

if you're truthful you don't have to worry about conflicting statements. if you're not, you need to have a pretty good memory.

alasdair

 

[swilow]

Merged in your thread jgrimez.

 

[alasdairm]

If there was any Russian collusion, do you think they would have let him win?

well apparently the election was rigged against him and he somehow won so you tell me

nothing to see here...

alasdair

 

[JessFR]

Oh yeah we neeeeever cared about politicians lying until trump came along.

Here's something he either lied about or was totally unrealistic about. Mexico paying for the wall. American tax payers should not have to assume that when trump said over and over that Mexico would pay for the wall, that what he meant was that they would.

 

[CFC]

This was doing the rounds today on FB and made me laugh:

Someone on Quora asked "Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?"

A gentleman named Nate White wrote this in response:

* * *

A few things spring to mind.

Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump?s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

I don?t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

But with Trump, it?s a fact. He doesn?t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.
Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

And scarily, he doesn?t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.
There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It?s all surface.

Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don?t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist.

Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that.

He?s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat.
He?s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead.

There are unspoken rules to this stuff - the Queensberry rules of basic decency - and he breaks them all. He punches downwards - which a gentleman should, would, could never do - and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless - and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority - perhaps a third - of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think 'Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy? is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:

Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.

You don't need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it?s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of shit. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.

God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid.

He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart.

In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws - he would make a Trump.

 

[JGrimez]

I actually predicted that would be the worst one.

C'mon... Trump is a worse liar than Obama, who lied about crimes that are literally punishable by death, because he said Mexico would pay for the wall.

Anything else??

 

[JessFR]

Obama... Isn't... President. Clinton... Isn't... President.

I might have cared about their lies when they were, I DO still care about some of the actions of the Obama administration. But they're not in office anymore. Trump is.

When trump leaves office, I'll likely stop caring much about him anymore either.

And you're right to predict that that would be the worst one, it's not OK to just tell people deciding who to elect that they can trust you to both build a wall and that they'd not have to pay, if you could easily have known that would not happen.

 

[JGrimez]

Damn impeach Trump then for being the first person to not fulfill a campaign promise.

It's not like he isn't trying either lol, when it's obstructionist Democrats refusing to negotiate, that leads his followers to forgive the delay.

Does anyone else have an example of his most egregious lie?

 

[cduggles]

A Jabba the Hut of privilege!!! Nice CFC!

 

[alasdairm]

It's not like he isn't trying either lol, when it's obstructionist Democrats refusing to negotiate...

easily the funniest thing i have read on bluelight in, well, months.

as one of ce&p's leading fans of 'whataboutism' i am sure you can agree how amusing that is. did you type it with a straight face?

maybe trump (and you) should listen to this guy:

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

i think trump's lies about stormy daniels are pretty egregious. his opening position was to deny all allegations and any payments. in april, when asked whether he knew about a hush payment to daniels his answer was an unequivocal "no".

that was a lie. plain and simple. it went back and forward a few times with trump, and many of his staff denying any knowledge and trump denying knowledge on more than one occasion. if this was just a scumbag guy trying to avoid talking about cheating on his wife with a porn star that would be one thing. but he lied because the cover-up was needed so as not to impact the campaign, violating federal election law.

trump supporters are all about the law right? lock him up? lock him up?

but perhaps his worst lies were on health care.

after the wall, repealing and replacing obamacare was perhaps his biggest campaign promise. regardless of ones views on healthcare, he hasn't come close to fulfilling the promise. but it's the lies he told around the issue which, i think, are worst. there was this: Trump vows ‘insurance for everybody’ in Obamacare replacement plan.

a lot of voters probably bought that nonsense.

We’re going to have insurance for everybody...
...
There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.
...
[People covered under the law] can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.

disgraceful stuff.



alasdair

 

[Xorkoth]

I just find it amusing because politicians have always been notoriously full of shit. Many (most?) of them lie all the time even more than Trump does. But only since Trump have people been so obsessed with LIES LIES LIES. It's just seems hypocritical and weak. Although I actually am a bit glad that people are holding Trump to a higher standard. Now if you take all of his lies, or mistakes, or half-truths, or creative politics, or campaign promises then yea arguably you could call him "a liar".
But the reason that so many people don't give a shit is because they take into account all the nuance, and possibly even assess every single "lie" on its own, before they recoil in horror about how egregious it was. Honestly - I've yet to hear him lie about something that actually matters, or he may have said something untrue in order to safeguard personal or sensitive information. Reporters can be very tricky. His supporters don't care about that BS. Even people that don't like Trump at all still support his policies and results.

So it's usually just Trump screwing up some number or a small fact that doesn't matter and most people don't care, but for the anti-Trumper that will be one more tally on the Big Bad Liar checksheet. For example Trump said the hamberders could reach to the moon. Oh snap sorry, liberal fact-checkers to the rescue. Those burgers definitely would NOT reach to the moon - and that lie is worse than if he knew about mishandled Special Access Program intelligence and told the American people that he didn't.

So I'll wait around for someone to tell me his most egregious or illegal lie, or if not y'all can just keep yelling liar liar liar.

Fixed it for you:

Oh, come on guys, you're being silly, ALL politicians lie, it's FINE. And you know what, those damn reporters are probably just making it SEEM like he's lying anyway. But us true supporters don't care about all of that. And ANYWAY, most of the time it's just harmless little lies like mixing up some numbers. Wait that's not even a lie, that's just a mistake. So I guess he doesn't lie, after all! Plus, none of his lies are ILLEGAL so they don't count.

Also, might I just point out, Hillary and Obama.

<insert people pointing out lies in this very page in the background>

So I'll wait around for someone to tell me his most egregious or illegal lie, or if not y'all can just keep yelling liar liar liar.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

if you're truthful you don't have to worry about conflicting statements. if you're not, you need to have a pretty good memory.

alasdair

QFT. So much simpler if you stay honest and open about stuff. Even the bad stuff. Otherwise, as Ali notes, you spend (waste) WAY more effort digging your holes deeper.

 

[JessFR]

Damn impeach Trump then for being the first person to not fulfill a campaign promise.

It's not like he isn't trying either lol, when it's obstructionist Democrats refusing to negotiate, that leads his followers to forgive the delay.

Does anyone else have an example of his most egregious lie?

You're one of his followers no?

Why would obstruction by the democrats make you forgive this? Such obstruction was entirely foreseeable. He said Mexico would pay for it, that he was an excellent negotiater and would get them to pay for it.

He asked the American people to trust him to deliver a wall they wouldn't have to pay for. People concerned about the costs, because they weren't so dumbass to think there wouldn't be obstruction, were repeatidly reassured that Mexico would wind up paying for it.

Either trump lied, or he is hideously incompetent. I don't see how either of those arent alarming. Or why you'd so easily forgive them.

Why should anyone trust a leader either so dishonest. And if it wasn't dishonesty, why should anyone trust a leader so laughably incompetent.

And I do not wanna hear "but what about hillary". If you respond with that I'm just gonna point out again that Hillarys not the president. And that you can't excuse incompetence and dishonesty by simply going "well I'm not as bad as some people".

Why should anyone get praise for not being as terrible as someone else?

 

[JGrimez]

Thanks for indulging me. So we're just pissed off about campaign promises. Those were the worst of the worst. The faux-hysteria is real (his first term isn't even over)

but he lied because the cover-up was needed so as not to impact the campaign, violating federal election law.

I'm confused, what law specifically did he break? Was he under oath? Nobody cares about this either because it's some random woman he had a thing with, nobody is surprised by Trump's promiscuity, they were well aware when they voted him in. So Stormy signed an NDA, and then violated the terms of the NDA? She did the wrong thing after she was more than happy to accept the money, so I don't fault Trump for lying about this. It's one of those political games, nobody cares, nobody is getting hurt here, it literally has zero relevance to his performance as President. And AFAIK he didn't do anything illegal here. If he told his lawyer to do something legal, and the lawyer does it via illegal means, that isn't Trump's fault. And that's why Cohen is sitting in jail and Trump isn't, and Cohen had no legitimate dirt to bargain himself out of it.

I'm not sure why you're laughing at the simple fact of how the government works. He exposed the Dems as being completely unwilling to negotiate on border security. Did you guys know that his support among Hispanics ROSE dramatically during the government shutdown?? They know better than anyone why a wall is needed, they are from those countries! Why would they want illegal criminals walking across the border when they are law-abiding citizens and legal immigrants??

You're one of his followers no?

I am a cautious Trump supporter, open to the chance of being disappointed at any moment. I'm inching closer towards Tulsi but as of now, Trump is doing a great job (with a few disappointments).

Why would obstruction by the democrats make you forgive this? Such obstruction was entirely foreseeable.

It was foreseeable because I believe multiple Democrat politicians are directly profiting from the illegal cross-border trade of drugs, guns and possibly even people/children. This explains their desperate and absolute obstruction (apart from simply preventing Trump's campaign promise).

People concerned about the costs, because they weren't so dumbass to think there wouldn't be obstruction, were repeatidly reassured that Mexico would wind up paying for it.

It's only people like yourselves that are that hyper-focused on Mexico funding it and are pretending to be outraged by the price tag. (California just squandered a few billion on some fail of a train). I believe the annual budget is something like $4.4 trillion? Anyone complaining about the price (while also ignoring that illegal immigration ends up costing the taxpayer MORE) is simply a never-Trumper. I view these complaints about the price tag as completely baseless, ignorant and political.

I don't see how either of those arent alarming. Or why you'd so easily forgive them.

Because he's still trying. Unlike most politicians who make promises and then forget about them, Trump is still putting a lot of effort into getting the Wall built.

Why should anyone trust a leader either so dishonest.

So I'm sure that you've heard a lot of Trump supporters say that he is actually honest, at least compared to the average politician. And that's true because what you all are doing is completely ignoring all the positive aspects of Trump, the times where he just tells it like it is and is much more forthcoming than previous politicians. If you focus only on what you wish to see (the political half-truths or verbal slip-ups) then you're going to cement the idea in your mind that Trump is dishonest. I suggest trying to view it from a different perspective, because these accusations are getting really old.

I genuinely asked for the worst lies and you guys gave me nonsense. A couple of campaign promises and we're still just past halfway in the term. You've exposed yourselves as being ridiculously biased.

And if it wasn't dishonesty, why should anyone trust a leader so laughably incompetent.

Same as above. You're only focusing on what you wish to see, and completely ignore all of the things that he has managed to do (I'm not even talking about the economy, there are a ton of policies). If you do not think that he has done anything positive, again I would say that you are disingenuous and biased to the point that you should be excluded from the discussion (but by all means stay, I understand that this thread is just as much of a place to vent frustrations and rant as it is a place for mature and intelligent political discourse. Where's SJ btw? I miss him).

And I do not wanna hear "but what about hillary". If you respond with that I'm just gonna point out again that Hillarys not the president. And that you can't excuse incompetence and dishonesty by simply going "well I'm not as bad as some people".

BUT WHAT ABOUT HILLARY?? SHE RESCUED A CHILD TRAFFICKER IN HAITI NAMED LAURA SILSBY AND NOBODY CAN EXPLAIN WHY SHE DID THAT

Why should anyone get praise for not being as terrible as someone else?

In terms of politics in this day and age, this is actually a good thing lol.
The reason I continue to compare people is because of CONTEXT and NUANCE, which are routinely ignored in this thread.

Trump's worst "lies" so far:
Mexico will pay for wall.
Repeal healthcare.
Stormy Daniels.

 

[JessFR]

Sj hasn't been around for a little while. I miss him too, but it's unclear if he's coming back or not saddly.

Just to clarify something, I don't care about 5 billion at all. I care about the cost because it's never gonna turn out to be 5 billion.

And while I'm elaborating on my position, you might be pleased to hear that my disgust with Trump is faaar more personal than it is political. I don't like his politics and think he's been a terrible president. But if you think I'd still hate him no matter what he's done for the country you'd probably be right. Because I hate the guy personally. His politics sure don't help, but you share his politics and I don't hate you. I'm happy to freely admit to that.

I think you're right to prepare for disappointment. Because I don't think you're going to get your wall. I think in a decade now you'll look around, see that nothings changed, see trump bragging about his success that you can't see any results of, and feel betrayed.

 

[JGrimez]

Trump has a track record of getting stuff done in business, and "winning" overall so I shall disagree with your prediction.

And if you hate Trump's personality, that's fine I can definitely understand that. If you separate that from the policies then that's cool

It's kinda funny that I never cared for businessman Trump but I love president Trump (after thinking he was a racist psychopath early on during the election).

 

[JessFR]

Well I don't like his policies either. It's just that I'd still wildly dislike him even if I didn't is all.

Id rather trump not treat America like a business and run her into the ground like several of his actual businesses.

And hey, I'm not saying trumps the worst businessman ever to have lived. He's probably not "that" bad. He's just not that great either.

There's a perception that he's an amazing businessman. But he's really not. The trump brand itself is a big part of that perception, which basically means he benefits from the competency of others, and people think he's responsible for more than he is.

The other reason is the apprentice. Which gave people that impression. But the apprentice is a reality TV show. And thus quite divorced from reality.