The 2018 Trump Presidency thread

[Captain.Heroin]

trump is just an out and out liar. About everything.

qft

 

[Cream Gravy?]

You need to have done terrible things to be a terrible president. For example lying to get us into war, restricting rights, surveilling incoming candidates, selling uranium to enemies, selling state secrets, selling drugs, selling children, selling guns to mexican cartels who then kill US police etc

And ok so you're 100% invested into identity politics, and whether someone breaks the law or not doesn't change your opinion of them? Sounds like a Democrat to me (JK XD)

Btw most of my questions are just open to anyone answering because I keep hoping people do but usually not.

I don't answer anymore because I feel talking to you is cyclical.

I.e. I say, "Trump is pushing supreme court picks that vocally oppose abortion," or, "Trump is ruining relations with allies which we've worked the past decade to fix since Bush," and that's why I hate him, and then you still proceed to ask, "What has Trump done? Everything he's done is so great.", and then I point to my prior statements and beef with his foreign relations, attacks on civil rights, etc. And then you go on to claim that in fact, Trump has made us sooooo respectable on the world stage because he has hissy-fits and terminates decent trade agreements. Or that no, Trump's attempts to govern women's body's is in fact a good thing. Or that he's 'draining the swamp' by picking candidates who embody the very essence of what you claim to so vehemently hate. It goes on and on.

That's why I don't try anymore.

 

[swilow]

OK cool so he hasn't lied about anything that matters and hasn't committed any crimes.

Why are some Democrats calling for impeachment?

Weasely response there. Putting an argument into your opponents mouth just makes your own seem tenuous at best.

He started his presidency by lying about the utter dearth of attendees at his swearing in. The consequences of that lie DO matter because it tells you that the president of the United States is...well, a fucking liar

As to crimez; you don't know that he hasn't committed any which is the point of the investigation. You don't want to have to admit he might be a criminal so you are assuming his innocence. Neither viewpoint has much evidence at this stage.

 

[invegauser]

"OK cool so i hasn't lied about anything that matters and i hasn't committed any crimes cause i has some of the best words." is what i tell myself every second of everyday.

ftfy swilow

 

[JGrimez]

it started on day one with the insane fuss about how his inauguration attendance was the highest ever. spicer's response in the press conference afterwards was so utterly cringeworthy it was hard to watch.

Well "it" started before that, if "it" refers to obsessive and biased media attacks.
I love how such a big deal was made about something that doesn't even matter.
If it was a different administration that made this error the media would have corrected the error and moved on with their day, not used it as "EVIDENCE THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS FULL OF LIARS".
Alasdairm this is also posed to yourself - feel free to show me where they lied about something that actually matters.

it's so utterly petty and pathetic and it was, in hindsight, a hint of things to come.

True it was quickly followed up with media bombshells like "Trump gets 2 scoops of ice-cream!" or "Trump is scared of stairs!"

All lies are not created equal. This is one of the reasons why people laugh at and don't trust the media.
Focusing on what's important and calling out dangerous or damaging dishonesty = good
Repeating nonsense that nobody cares about to try and demonize someone = bad

mueller?s investigations led to convictions on so many people
And manafort is testifying
Delusional you are.
Check the political compass thread; even right leaning people see Trump as a giant flop.

Captain Delusional - are you even following the FISA scandal?
Do any of those convictions relate to Trump at all?
Remember when Padaopolous got 14 days jail for lying to the FBI? Lol I think he's already out..

the revolving door on the white house - and the incessant leaks from his administration - are a testament to trump's poor leadership skills.

Or it's the opposite, and it's difficult to find qualified and loyal employees within the swamp, so people need to removed if they're not doing their jobs.
A federal employee is more likely to DIE than be fired - I am all for removing failures from government, downsizing bureaucracies as well. You're just generalizing and making assumptions to reinforce your preconceived belief.

What's wrong with leaks? There shouldn't be anything to hide in the first place.

There's truth to this as governments should operate with as much transparency as possible.
Privacy should be for the people and transparency for the government employees - what we're seeing now is the other way around.
As for leaks, we still need to safeguard national security. Leaks should only be acceptable if they're exposing criminality within the government. If they're just being weaponized to try and hurt a candidate or President, that's when the leaks themselves become criminal.

I'm sure Robert Mueller has a shitload of evidence that he knows about that we don't.

lol I"m sure he doesn't.

OMG I can't wait to lock that fat fuck up. That will be the funniest and the most fulfilling day EVER! Trump family mafia for prison.

Don't hold your breath. I wonder which crimes they will supposedly lock him up for? Winning a democratic election?

Trump is just an out and out liar. About everything.

More dishonest hyperbole. He's not lying about the booming economy, unemployment and job numbers.
Don't you get tired of writing vague rants?
Let's hear some specific policy discussions.

Try not to blindly believe any "first hand reports" from "anonymous sources".

 

[Xorkoth]

You need to have done terrible things to be a terrible president. For example lying to get us into war, restricting rights, surveilling incoming candidates, selling uranium to enemies, selling state secrets, selling drugs, selling children, selling guns to mexican cartels who then kill US police etc

You're obviously referred to Hilary and/or Obama right now... which once again, has no bearing on Trump and his administration. It's entirely possible for other politicians to be dirty as well as Trump.

Trump is the most vetted POTUS ever.

Lolwut? Are you being serious? The most vetted president ever?

The DNC dug dirt on him for 3 years.
The RNC dug dirt on him for 2 years.
Mueller dug dirt on him for 1 year.
He was spied on with the highest level FISA warrant possible.

No dirt.

Think about that.

I think our definitions of "dirt" are hopelessly out of sync.

lol I"m sure he doesn't.

Okay, because you're investigating him... nevermind, in light of your new and compelling argument, I've changed my opinion.

... 8)

 

[JGrimez]

Weasely response there. Putting an argument into your opponents mouth just makes your own seem tenuous at best.

He started his presidency by lying about the utter dearth of attendees at his swearing in. The consequences of that lie DO matter because it tells you that the president of the United States is...well, a fucking liar

All politicians are liars. Pick your poison - someone that made a mistake (or purposefully lied depending on your interpretation or assumptions) about crowd numbers, or someone that lies about getting us into war which leads to the deaths of millions of people and the erosion of our human rights?
"BUT A LIAR IS A LIAR" - no they're fucking not. We like to ignore nuance here to prove our points.

As to crimez; you don't know that he hasn't committed any which is the point of the investigation. You don't want to have to admit he might be a criminal so you are assuming his innocence. Neither viewpoint has much evidence at this stage.

How about innocent until proven guilty?
How about they illegally wiretapped him and still found no smoking gun and they're yet to even accuse him of a specific crime?
What are you basing your outlandish fantasies of him being a criminal on? Sensationalist reports from anonymous sources written by a provably dishonest media?
They haven't got shit and you all know it (or are dreading this inevitability)

I don't answer anymore because I feel talking to you is cyclical.

It's cyclical because people refuse to answer my questions, they revert back to vague nothingness, and then I ask the same questions again.

I.e. I say, "Trump is pushing supreme court picks that vocally oppose abortion,"

A lot of people vocally oppose a lot of things. Did the SC picks say that they will work on policy to outlaw abortion? If so please present the evidence. Otherwise this is just wah-wah.
For eg removing taxpayer funding for abortions is not outlawing abortion.

"Trump is ruining relations with allies which we've worked the past decade to fix since Bush,"

FAKE NEWS - be more specific.
Ruining relations, how? With who? Is this about tariffs? Or is Trump sending us on a descent into war with our allies?
Nonsense, vague criticism that argues nothing.

and that's why I hate him, and then you still proceed to ask, "What has Trump done? Everything he's done is so great.", and then I point to my prior statements and beef with his foreign relations, attacks on civil rights, etc.

Vague vague vague. Be more specific and I'll address them. But specificity exposes superficiality when it comes to criticizing Trump.

And then you go on to claim that in fact, Trump has made us sooooo respectable on the world stage because he has hissy-fits and terminates decent trade agreements.

Not decent to the United States. Evening up the playing field isn't antagonizing allies.
Peace through strength - people do respect that.

Or that no, Trump's attempts to govern women's body's is in fact a good thing. Or that he's 'draining the swamp' by picking candidates who embody the very essence of what you claim to so vehemently hate. It goes on and on.

That's why I don't try anymore.

Let's talk about the entire FBI top brass being fired... but nobody here actually cares to discuss the real and observable examples of the swamp-draining.... it's pretty sad coz some of us here are quite intelligent but we're too biased. We care too much about removing Trump (without justification) as opposed to learning the truth of what's happening.

 

[spacejunk]

I think in trump's case, "vetted" refers to be taken to a vet for antibiotics.

Really, the continued attempts to claim he's a decent guy - not a crook - is increasingly desperate, and increasingly divorced from reality. It's my preference to avoid engaging with anything that insults my intelligence.

 

[JGrimez]

You're obviously referred to Hilary and/or Obama right now... which once again, has no bearing on Trump and his administration. It's entirely possible for other politicians to be dirty as well as Trump.

Yeah it's possible that Trump is dirty but it's not based on any evidence.

Lolwut? Are you being serious? The most vetted president ever?

They illegally wiretapped his administration FFS! It's obvious how obsessive they were in attempting to dig dirt up on him.
And the worst they found was him saying "pussy" in a private conversation a decade ago.

I think our definitions of "dirt" are hopelessly out of sync.

Yeah dirt is stuff that can actually hurt someone in a political race. Not stuff that we're supposed to be angry about because hypocrites tell us to be.

Okay, because you're investigating him... nevermind, in light of your new and compelling argument, I've changed my opinion.

You'd do well listening to me, I've been correct about everything so far regarding this "investigation".
I watched them concoct the whole narrative as soon as Trump won, and now (if you're paying attention) you'll see that Mueller's investigation is on its last legs.
Lisa Page just testified that they had zero evidence of Trump colluding with Russia when Mueller was appointed - that's HUGE.
Again, nobody here gives a shit because they don't want to discuss it. The conversation remains "let's wait and see what Mueller's got! I'm sure he's got lots of evidence"....
o_0

 

[JGrimez]

Really, the continued attempts to claim he's a decent guy - not a crook - is increasingly desperate, and increasingly divorced from reality.

You seem pretty adamant. Where's the evidence that he's a crook? You ain't got none.

It's my preference to avoid engaging with anything that insults my intelligence.

You need to learn the difference between getting proven wrong - and something insulting your intelligence.
Just because you're wrong that doesn't make you dumb.
If you ignore evidence however, and make up your own..... different story

 

[Xorkoth]

How about innocent until proven guilty?
How about they illegally wiretapped him and still found no smoking gun and they're yet to even accuse him of a specific crime?
What are you basing your outlandish fantasies of him being a criminal on? Sensationalist reports from anonymous sources written by a provably dishonest media?
They haven't got shit and you all know it (or are dreading this inevitability)

Exactly, innocent until proven guilty. I've said it before and I'll say it again: when you're dealing with criminal investigations with the most powerful people in the world, involving collusion with perhaps our most powerful ally (have you forgotten the Cold War?), it might take more than a year or two. And you and I have no idea what evidence there is. When investigating crimes, you don't make that sort of thing public until you pull the trigger. That's just how it works. Criminal investigations into far less powerful people that are not on the world stage often take longer than this.

I don;t know that they haven't got shit, and neither do you. How about we all just wait and see what happens? It just looks desperate, all the calls for calling off the investigation from Trump supporters. I don't know if he's guilty... I mean obviously I think he probably is, but I could be wrong. So could you. So let's see what happens instead of condemning the fact that he's being investigated. If you're so sure he's innocent, why so afraid?

FAKE NEWS - be more specific.
Ruining relations, how? With who? Is this about tariffs? Or is Trump sending us on a descent into war with our allies?
Nonsense, vague criticism that argues nothing.

It's delusional to refute the fact that he's souring relations with our allies. Are you being serious? People are looking at us like we're fucking idiots. And not just citizens:

http://time.com/5345104/world-leaders-condemn-trump-twitter-g20/
https://www.businessinsider.com/wor...ting-migrant-families-us-mexico-border-2018-6
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/24/opin...ump-has-to-offer-robertson-opinion/index.html

Those are just the top 3 Google search results for "world leaders condemning Trump"

They illegally wiretapped his administration FFS! It's obvious how obsessive they were in attempting to dig dirt up on him.
And the worst they found was him saying "pussy" in a private conversation a decade ago.

It's grossly inaccurate to say that all he said was "pussy"... he said that you if you're wealthy you can do anything to women, just "grab them by the pussy". I said the word "pussy" today... very, very different.

 

[JGrimez]

Exactly, innocent until proven guilty. I've said it before and I'll say it again: when you're dealing with criminal investigations with the most powerful people in the world, involving collusion with perhaps our most powerful ally (have you forgotten the Cold War?), it might take more than a year or two. And you and I have no idea what evidence there is. When investigating crimes, you don't make that sort of thing public until you pull the trigger. That's just how it works. Criminal investigations into far less powerful people that are not on the world stage often take longer than this.

They've pulled the trigger on Manafort and Papadopolous and found nothing relating to Trump admin/Russia collusion.

I don;t know that they haven't got shit, and neither do you.

Yes I do. We've got evidence of his opponents actually colluding with Russians. That doesn't get the same amount of media coverage though.

I mean obviously I think he probably is

Based on nothing

So let's see what happens instead of condemning the fact that he's being investigated. If you're so sure he's innocent, why so afraid?

Afraid of what? We're simply concerned that the intelligence and spying operations were illegally weaponized against Trump.

Those are just the top 3 Google search results for "world leaders condemning Trump"

Trade tariffs? Been over that.
Separating children at border - partisan and hypocritical. Trump continued Obana-era policies and even signed an EO to keep families together.

It's grossly inaccurate to say that all he said was "pussy"... he said that you if you're wealthy you can do anything to women, just "grab them by the pussy". I said the word "pussy" today... very, very different.

He said that some beautiful women allow themselves or actively want to be touched by powerful men. Which is true. He's never had any credible accusations of sexual assault against him, like a Weinstein for eg. Trump has never been convicted or settled any assault allegations.

 

[invegauser]

He said that some beautiful women allow themselves or actively want to be touched by powerful men. Which is true.

it would behoove you to stop while you still have your manhood attached.

 

[alasdairm]

You need to learn the difference between getting proven wrong - and something insulting your intelligence.

and you need to learn the difference between thinking somebody else is wrong and their simply having a difference of opinion to you...

alasdair

 

[JGrimez]

and you need to learn the difference between thinking somebody else is wrong and their simply having a difference of opinion to you...

I understand it fine. An example:
"There is evidence that Trump colluded with Russia to influence the election, and committed crimes"

In my opinion - that is wrong. And will remain wrong until you can offer evidence of Trump colluding with Russia and/or committing crimes.
Obviously you can have an opinion that is based on incorrect information. I will respect that opinion - until it's been challenged, and if one continues to repeat the same opinion after I've challenged it and they've failed to back it up - then I lose respect for their opinion/incorrect statements.

Obama is like a guy who coudn't open a jar for 8 years, and then Trump opens it and Obama says "I loosened it for you"

We applaud the President's decision to declassify portions of the Page FISA application and communications from the key pepole at the FBI and DOJ who ran the Russia investigation: Comey McCabe, Strzok, Page and Ohr.

Transparency is a good thing.

About time - I've been waiting for this for over a year but I understand the strategy or releasing it before midterms for maximum impact.

 

[spacejunk]

I'm just going to point out that reframing trump's sexual assault boast as somehow exemplifying what a magnetic man trump is - reeks of misogyny.

That shit may fly on incel/alt right forums, but it's repulsive.

 

[JGrimez]

I'm just going to point out that reframing trump's sexual assault boast as somehow exemplifying what a magnetic man trump is - reeks of misogyny.

That shit may fly on incel/alt right forums, but it's repulsive.

Ironic because it is you who is actually reframing it.

He said "women let you". I've had women let me touch them. Letting implies consent. So I don't know what the fuck you're talking about when you claim it was a "sexual assault boast"

 

[Xorkoth]

"Just grab them by the pussy" does not equal "they let him" do so. Excuse me while I vomit in my mouth a little, while you apologize for a piece of shit rapist asshole.

 

[invegauser]

More dishonest hyperbole. He's not lying about the booming economy, unemployment and job numbers.
Don't you get tired of writing vague rants?

the very word that alasdairm has used to describe your posts many times and your parroting him without understanding it.

the thread has already clarified the discrepancies between presidents as well as defining that not all decisions regardless of outcome are to be granted to the current president. claiming credit for the work of the many is underhanded.

spacejunk isn't perfect but imo he speaks of the ideology of government with an educated understanding that compliments his rebellious nature. as well as with clarity and accuracy of seeing what is obvious.

trying to factually desiminate these "vague rants" takes a much cooler and practiced hand than yours. i've only seen one or two people on this site alone who are capable of it.


Trump - Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

Bush - Whatever you want?

Trump - Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.

we talked about this a week or two ago. you forget already cause a beautiful woman generally looked in your direction today and you couldn't hold it together?

 

[spacejunk]

Oh please.
When i say grimez is a troll, this is what i'm talking about. Nobody wants to try having a mature discussion with someone that cannot or will not debate in good faith.

Following is an unedited transcript of the tape in which Donald J. Trump repeatedly made vulgar comments about women. Mr. Trump was filmed talking to the television personality Billy Bush of “Access Hollywood” on the set of “Days of Our Lives,” where Mr. Trump was making a cameo appearance. They are later joined by the actress Arianne Zucker. The transcription is by Penn Bullock of The New York Times.

Donald J. Trump: You know and ...

Unknown: She used to be great. She’s still very beautiful.

Trump: I moved on her, actually. You know, she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her, and I failed. I’ll admit it.

Unknown: Whoa.

Trump: I did try and fuck her. She was married.

Unknown: That’s huge news.

Trump: No, no, Nancy. No, this was [unintelligible] — and I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping.

She wanted to get some furniture. I said, “I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.” I took her out furniture -
I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look.

Billy Bush: Sheesh, your girl’s hot as shit. In the purple.

Trump: Whoa! Whoa!

Bush: Yes! The Donald has scored. Whoa, my man!

[Crosstalk]

Trump: Look at you, you are a pussy.

[Crosstalk]

Trump: All right, you and I will walk out.

[Silence]

Trump: Maybe it’s a different one.

Bush: It better not be the publicist. No, it’s, it’s her, it’s —


Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
Bush: Whatever you want.

Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.

Bush: Uh, yeah, those legs, all I can see is the legs.

Trump: Oh, it looks good.

Bush: Come on shorty.

Trump: Ooh, nice legs, huh?

Bush: Oof, get out of the way, honey. Oh, that’s good legs. Go ahead.

Trump: It’s always good if you don’t fall out of the bus. Like Ford, Gerald Ford, remember?

Bush: Down below, pull the handle.


Trump: Hello, how are you? Hi!

Arianne Zucker: Hi, Mr. Trump. How are you? Pleasure to meet you.

Trump: Nice seeing you. Terrific, terrific. You know Billy Bush?

Bush: Hello, nice to see you. How you doing, Arianne?

Zucker: Doing very well, thank you. Are you ready to be a soap star?

Trump: We’re ready, let’s go. Make me a soap star.

Bush: How about a little hug for the Donald? He just got off the bus.

Zucker: Would you like a little hug, darling?

Trump: O.K., absolutely. Melania said this was O.K.

Bush: How about a little hug for the Bushy? I just got off the bus.

Zucker: Bushy, Bushy.

Bush: Here we go. Excellent. Well, you’ve got a nice co-star here.

Zucker: Yes, absolutely.

Trump: Good. After you.

[Break in video]

Trump: Come on, Billy, don’t be shy.

Bush: Soon as a beautiful woman shows up, he just, he takes off. This always happens.

Trump: Get over here, Billy.

Zucker: I’m sorry, come here.

Bush: Let the little guy in here, come on.

Zucker: Yeah, let the little guy in. How you feel now? Better? I should actually be in the middle.

Bush: It’s hard to walk next to a guy like this.

Zucker: Here, wait, hold on.

Bush: Yeah, you get in the middle, there we go.


Trump: Good, that’s better.

Zucker: This is much better. This is —

Trump: That’s better.

Zucker: [Sighs]

Bush: Now, if you had to choose honestly between one of us. Me or the Donald?

Trump: I don’t know, that’s tough competition.

Zucker: That’s some pressure right there.

Bush: Seriously, if you had — if you had to take one of us as a date.
Zucker: I have to take the Fifth on that one.

Bush: Really?

Zucker: Yup — I’ll take both.

Trump: Which way?


Zucker: Make a right. Here we go. [inaudible]

Bush: Here he goes. I’m gonna leave you here.

Trump: O.K.

Bush: Give me my microphone.

Trump: O.K. Oh, you’re finished?

Bush: You’re my man, yeah.

Trump: Oh, good.

Bush: I’m gonna go do our show.

Zucker: Oh, you wanna reset? O.K.

(Emphasis mine)

I'm sick of talking about this part of trump's esteemed career. But arguing that it is anything other than repulsive is just bullshit.


"Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."

"I don't even wait" - no consent.

"I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything." - people don't say things like that about consentual affairs. It's not about them "letting" him - he's saying that they don't complain - which is yet another lie. He's been accused of sexual assault, sexual harassment and rape by numerous women.

I can't believe we're having this discussion again; all grimez's points have been refuted so many times, but he pays no attention to them.
It seems to me like an effort to derail a thread that is largely critical of trump.

there are lots of intelligent people on bluelight, so if you're offended by them analysing the trump administration, this probably isn't the forum for you.

I suspect that it's challenging for some people to step outside their echo chambers of trump worship, far right conspiracy theory and whatever else - but this is a place for "serious political discussion".
I don't think anyone wants to waste their time talking to a proverbial brick wall.

This subforum exists for discussion not spam.

Typically, posters who ask questions constantly, but never seem to listen to the answers, are regarded as "question trolls". It's hardfor me hard to see this revisionist, insincere line of debate as any different.