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The 2018 Trump Presidency thread

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None of that is true because you can't deny evidence.

Evidence of what? Which crimes? What is Trump and his ilk denying that is undeniably true?

They had Clinton's jizz on Lewinsky's dress- that's what's known as some goddamn evidence.

Stop pretending Trump is some master hypnotist with a stack of Get out of Jail free cards.

Present the evidence (or charge him with a crime) or just admit that he's clean.
 
Who said anything about crimes? What i said is that trump has created a culture where he will deny absolute realities no matter how factually established they are. Some of those might involve crimes but most of them are just him lying about stupid shit that doesn't really matter.

It's not my job to determine if he's done something criminal or not. And he doesn't have to have broken any laws to be a terrible horrible petty man who's unfit to be president of a golf course let alone the United States.
 
He does tend to be dismissive of the obvious, the coal mine thing and poisoning water as an example, but if he did say that he was aware of the dangers and environmental impact and put the fiscal benefits before that anyway, there would be more uproar from the public and that would hinder his plans.

Putting the economy above environment would appeal to those who are not keen environmentalists like primary industry.
 
Honestly I'd best the vast majority of trumps lies are just in the interest of his own pathetic sense of pride and narcissism. Most of them probably aren't to cover up any crime or even wrongdoing on his part. Just to reenforce his preferred version of reality because he's a pathetic small man who utterly can't stand feeling any less that perfection incarnate. It's utterly pathetic.
 
Who said anything about crimes?
Everybody said a lot about crimes.

What i said is that trump has created a culture where he will deny absolute realities no matter how factually established they are. Some of those might involve crimes but most of them are just him lying about stupid shit that doesn't really matter.
Can you give examples of him lying about things that do matter?
Also I think you consider "lying" if someone disagrees with you on a position. The President could form his opinions based on contrasting evidence to what you've seen (and he no doubt has access to more of it) and is therefore not lying, you simply disagree with him.
 
No, you're already protected yourself with the requirement that it be "something that matters" which is so subjective you can dismiss anything.

But he tells stupid lies all the time. If you just pull claims out of your ass and don't fact check them at all and just assume them to be true, that's still lying. And he does that all the time. Remember all those claims about his highest ever poll numbers? Or that recent shit with Puerto Rico where he's either too stupid to comprehend the concept that death tolls tend to be least accurate in the first couple days and tend to rise. Or is just a liar?

He's a total joke.
 
Honestly I'd best the vast majority of trumps lies are just in the interest of his own pathetic sense of pride and narcissism. Most of them probably aren't to cover up any crime or even wrongdoing on his part. Just to reenforce his preferred version of reality because he's a pathetic small man who utterly can't stand feeling any less that perfection incarnate. It's utterly pathetic.

Yeah that's true, ppl who have narcissistic traits usually do anything and everything to get in powerful positions, money talks and buys votes. He will be hard to beat next election regardless of his faults.
 
OK cool so he hasn't lied about anything that matters and hasn't committed any crimes.

Why are some Democrats calling for impeachment?
 
Yeah that's true, ppl who have narcissistic traits usually do anything and everything to get in powerful positions, money talks and buys votes. He will be hard to beat next election regardless of his faults.

I would say this is true of any leader. You have to be one hell of a ego-driven narcissistic psycho to fight your way up the greasy pole in the first place. Which is why hyped types like Obama, Macron and Trudeau never really live up to progressive expectations. Probably the only leaders who really do and say what they mean are those that never wanted the job. I can only think of one atm who fits that bill in the anglosphere.
 
OK cool so he hasn't lied about anything that matters and hasn't committed any crimes.

Why are some Democrats calling for impeachment?

Why are you asking me? I've noticed you seem to have a habit of treating everyone who doesn't like trump like a proxy for some personification of the democrats or the left.

You don't need to have done anything illegal to be a terrible president. I don't actually pay much attention to what crimes trump may have committed and exactly how much evidence there is. That's not my job. And it wouldn't inform anything regarding my opinions about trump. I already think he's a horrible assholes based on the shit he says and does. The way he treats people. People with delusional self beliefs and can't evaluate reality, people who treat others like shit, people who just lie and make shit up do not make good leaders of nations. They wind up destroying nations. So I don't really care about what crimes he might have committed or not because what difference would it make for this evaluation? I don't much care what happens to him once he's out of office. And that's the only difference what laws he's broken makes.
 
You need to have done terrible things to be a terrible president. For example lying to get us into war, restricting rights, surveilling incoming candidates, selling uranium to enemies, selling state secrets, selling drugs, selling children, selling guns to mexican cartels who then kill US police etc

And ok so you're 100% invested into identity politics, and whether someone breaks the law or not doesn't change your opinion of them? Sounds like a Democrat to me (JK XD)

Btw most of my questions are just open to anyone answering because I keep hoping people do but usually not.
 
Yeah I'm asking you why he's a bad leader. Coz so far things are looking pretty positive overall.
I like when people answer without resorting to identity politics smears.
 
There's little point in explaining because you'll never agree. If there was any chance that you'd see my point you'd have done so on your own.

You disagree now, but I still bet in 10 years from now you'll hate trump as much as I do. For different reasons no doubt, but I'm betting you will. Trumps incompetent. He will fail you as much as he will everyone else.

History will not be kind.
 
No, you're already protected yourself with the requirement that it be "something that matters" which is so subjective you can dismiss anything.
yep. any true scotsman.

But he tells stupid lies all the time. If you just pull claims out of your ass and don't fact check them at all and just assume them to be true, that's still lying. And he does that all the time. Remember all those claims about his highest ever poll numbers? Or that recent shit with Puerto Rico where he's either too stupid to comprehend the concept that death tolls tend to be least accurate in the first couple days and tend to rise. Or is just a liar?
it started on day one with the insane fuss about how his inauguration attendance was the highest ever. spicer's response in the press conference afterwards was so utterly cringeworthy it was hard to watch. and this came out even more recently: Trump inauguration crowd photos were edited after he intervened

A government photographer edited official pictures of Donald Trump’s inauguration to make the crowd appear bigger following a personal intervention from the president, according to newly released documents.

The photographer cropped out empty space “where the crowd ended” for a new set of pictures requested by Trump on the first morning of his presidency, after he was angered by images showing his audience was smaller than Barack Obama’s in 2009.

The detail was revealed in investigative reports released to the Guardian under the Freedom of Information Act by the inspector general of the US interior department. They shed new light on the first self-inflicted crisis of Trump’s presidency, when his White House falsely claimed he had attracted the biggest ever inauguration audience.

it's so utterly petty and pathetic and it was, in hindsight, a hint of things to come.

alasdair
 
Yeah I'm asking you why he's a bad leader.
i think good leaders inspire loyalty and stability. this is from earlier this year but what do the following have in common:

  • Acting attorney general
  • Associate attorney general
  • Deputy assistant to the president focusing on national security and terrorism
  • Deputy director of the FBI
  • Deputy national security adviser
  • Deputy national security adviser
  • Deputy White House chief of staff
  • Deputy White House chief of staff
  • Deputy White House communications director
  • Director of communications for the White House Office of Public Liaison
  • Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
  • Director of the National Economic Council
  • Director of the Office of Government Ethics
  • FBI director
  • National security adviser
  • Secretary of health and human services
  • Secretary of state
  • Special adviser to the president on regulatory matters
  • Trump's personal assistant
  • United States attorney for the Southern District of New York
  • White House chief of staff
  • White House chief strategist
  • White House communications director
  • White House communications director
  • White House communications director
  • White House press secretary
  • White House staff secretary

many more since.

the revolving door on the white house - and the incessant leaks from his administration - are a testament to trump's poor leadership skills.

alasdair
 
Bill Mitchell:

Trump is the most vetted POTUS ever.

The DNC dug dirt on him for 3 years.
The RNC dug dirt on him for 2 years.
Mueller dug dirt on him for 1 year.
He was spied on with the highest level FISA warrant possible.

No dirt.

Think about that.

mueller’s investigations led to convictions on so many people

And manafort is testifying


Delusional you are.

Check the political compass thread; even right leaning people see Trump as a giant flop.
 
Instead of Trumps people saying prove it NOW or drop it completely. Why don't we wait and see what evidence Manafort and Cohen can provide to Robert Mueller... You know like any good investigation that ever existed. I'm sure Robert Mueller has a shitload of evidence that he knows about that we don't. OMG I can't wait to lock that fat fuck up. That will be the funniest and the most fulfilling day EVER! Trump family mafia for prison.
 
Trump is just an out and out liar. About everything.
He shits on democracy, and doesn't even pretend to have integrity. from what i can tell, he's not inspired by a vision, but by resentment. he's got grandiose determination and a very fragile ego. that's why he's such a bitchy drama queen - because if he wasn't always dodging questions about scandals, he might have to engage in public discussions about sophisticated policy matters.
To support him, you must have to overlook an awful lot of negative stuff.

All of it - the corruption, the nepotism, the way he has put people with serious conflicts of interest into certain senior positions
(anti-environmentalists in charge of the EPA, among others), the way he attacks people with nasty insults rather than discussing policy - and just his general demeanour, which seems both non-inquisitive and ridiculously defensive.

He does all the grubby personal-attack stuff to distract people from the fact that he is simply not up to the job being president, of being a leader, of being a politician. standing in front of the cameras and delivering vaguely presidential oratory seems to be too much of a challenge, and ultimately everything is just a total farce.

His tariffs make this obvious - the way he talks about trade deficits, it's pretty clear that he has no idea what they are - but he's floundering so badly as president that he just pushes ahead and says dangerous, silly things (without consulting with his party, and ignoring his advisors) which threaten the stability of the world economy.
i suspect it's because he doesnt understand half of what he's in charge of, but it's all about surface level appearances in the press.
most supporters of politicians are still critical when people they like screw up.
there's something not right - IMO - when supporters can't acknowledge that person's shortcomings. it seems suss.

i'm not really talking about his politics, he is simply incompetent.

The argument that he's "shaking up" politics, in a good way, is just dishonest.

What he's actually doing is damaging government institutions as much as he can. That's not "draining the swamp" of lousy people - if you look at the people that have resigned or been fired (like all of the ambassadors appointend by obama) - lots of them are experienced and knowledgable public servants.
many of the trump appointments seem to be "lousy people" - who embody the hypocrisy of trump when he accuses others of being crooked and/or incompetent, like giving betsy devoss the job of education secretary.

It's pretty weird for someone to be so ideologically critical of "The Government" that they vote in, and support, a president intent on destroying it.
Trump himself is devoid of principles, integrity, political knowledge or any of the sort of skills people require to be president of the USA.

Yes, protest votes can be a good way of having your civic voice heard - and this can often mean voting for candidates who are going to cause trouble.
But electing a populist as cynical and spiteful as trump is foolish.

he says he's going to shake things up, he says he's going to do all kinds of things - but he represents all of the worst things about others - he's crooked, he's not one of your best people.

i think people are so overly invested in the really small, superficial stuff in politics, if someone comes along and makes all the right noises - populist shit about immigrants and all this anti "identity politics" stuff - and lots of people will just go along with it, thinking that he's speaking to them with his cynical, deeply targeted message.

suffice to say, it's a con job - the latest in a lifetime of shake-downs - a cheap trick for publicity that got out of hand on trump's part, if those stories are true.

He's not sabotaging and undermining government institutions for the good of the people.
His attitude is not libertarian - it's authoritarian.
Trump has idolised putin for years, and angled for his attention. putin played him, but trump still looks to him like some kind of father figure.

I can understand why disaffected people voted for trump, because there is a lot to be cynical about, in modern politics.
but i don't have much respect for the continued attempts to paint him as a hero, or a saint.

It's silly - and if you look past the hype and focus on trump's agenda, and how he's implementing it - it's disturbing.

Even if you agree with trump's politics, his administration is a mess; the evidence of that is overwhelming.
there have been too many first-hand reports from people behind the scenes who paint a very troubling picture of how trump operates behind closed doors to disregard them.

But disregard them is what trump fans continue to.
I cannot imagine supporting some politician who gets up onstage to insult people like a grumpy toddler, but he does, and they do.
The things he has said to the families of dead soldiers, and the stripping of funds from government departments that he has ideological beef with, and the trashing of the affordable healthcare act - his whole act is pretty weak, and it's just to distract the attention to what a fraud he is.
i mean, the guy's clueless and crazy.

the one good thing about it all is that he's almost single-handedly politicised all of the young people of the united states. people have started to open their eyes and not only realise that trump is threatening to destroy a whole lot of things they took for granted - like living in a free, democratic society - and they'll start demanding more from politicians, and they'll start to appreciate that it's important to vote.

i've been starting to think about trump's next moves, and i'm just going to post this here because it's a little trump prediction.
be interesting to maybe look back at such things in a couple of years - maybe it's something for the social thread or something - but it's interesting to ponder what will happen to trump?

my tip? i think trump will be charged sooner or later - i have no idea whether that's likely while he's still president, but i suppose it might depend on how forthcoming cohen and manafort are. given their plea deals, i think they will get a lot, and mueller will move on trump "like a bitch" =D

i then think trump will plead insanity.
maybe that explains his batshit behaviour from day one?
when they won the election he probably thought "oh fuck. why did i say all that 'russia are you listening?' stuff?"

if he avoids impeachment - and i don't know enough about that to make an informed guess about whether it'll happen - i think his lawyer could easily make the case that he's out of his mind - senile, syphilitic or whatever.

it would also give the GOP and the people that enabled him the opportunity to blame that and deny any responsibility for the trump administration.

so that's my current theory. just a guess, but it will be interesting (in an uncomfortable way) to see what happens.
 
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