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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

The 2018 Trump Presidency thread

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Droppersneck said:
Trumps continuous pressure on China and NK is paying off bigly! If he unites Korea folks on the left are going to lose their minds. You have to think the tough talk, extra tough sanctions, and his brass tacks no nonsense unpredictable nature made this happen. Regardless, I just hope for the NK people they this happens, they have suffered far too much!
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I just have a very hard time believing trumps responsible. Look, we all know I don't like the guy. But I try hard to give credit where it's due, and if I eventually come to feel trumps responsible for this, I'll give him credit for it. To whatever extent it may be. But it'll be a long time before that can be said with real certainty.

I'm not sure what's going on with North Korea right now, I have a couple theories, and I'll admit one of them is the kind of thing you're suggesting. But I'm still pretty doubtful. And the big reason I'm doubtful is I just don't buy that all anyone ever had to do was be unpredictable and stand up to them. It's too easy. All of this has this unreal quality to it.

Personally I'm much more inclined to believe that this is all bullshit. That when it comes down to it, North Koreas gonna want some heavy shit in exchange for denuclearization. And all this good will right now is to make it harder to say no and have it look like a failure.

What they're likely to want is the kind of stuff trumps in a position to make happen. If they're smart, they'll see that trump will be more likely to want to make it happen if he's already capitalizing on all this early good will. He won't want to see it all fall apart. And if north Korea doesn't get whatever they want, you know they'll come out and say it all fell apart because of America.

That's my guess. But I'm still fairly unsure. Time will tell.
 
^the Korean foreign minister stated that Trump was directly responsible for facilitating this outcome.

This
alasdairm said:
it's cynical nonsense. under pruitt, environmental protection is no longer the focus of the epa.
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counters your claim. If they weren't concerned about environmental protection then they would continue the current EPA tradition of keeping their science hidden. Operating with more transparency will hold these people more accountable for their decisions.
 
alasdairm said:
right.

alasdair
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I wanted to respond to your actual response before you edited our posts, but the site gateway kept going down last night.
JessFR said:
I just have a very hard time believing trumps responsible. Look, we all know I don't like the guy. But I try hard to give credit where it's due, and if I eventually come to feel trumps responsible for this, I'll give him credit for it. To whatever extent it may be. But it'll be a long time before that can be said with real certainty.

I'm not sure what's going on with North Korea right now, I have a couple theories, and I'll admit one of them is the kind of thing you're suggesting. But I'm still pretty doubtful. And the big reason I'm doubtful is I just don't buy that all anyone ever had to do was be unpredictable and stand up to them. It's too easy. All of this has this unreal quality to it.

Personally I'm much more inclined to believe that this is all bullshit. That when it comes down to it, North Koreas gonna want some heavy shit in exchange for denuclearization. And all this good will right now is to make it harder to say no and have it look like a failure.

What they're likely to want is the kind of stuff trumps in a position to make happen. If they're smart, they'll see that trump will be more likely to want to make it happen if he's already capitalizing on all this early good will. He won't want to see it all fall apart. And if north Korea doesn't get whatever they want, you know they'll come out and say it all fell apart because of America.

That's my guess. But I'm still fairly unsure. Time will tell.
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The South Korean President has said multiple times that this only happened bc of Trumps tough rhetoric and actions. This and trumps relationship with China made this ultimately happen. Even amazons Washington post gave him credit in an article from the otherday, and that site is no fan of trumps!
 
These aren't mutually exclusive claims though. Man, I don't know for sure and I'm happy to admit that. Maybe trumps tough talk really is responsible. I doubt it for various reasons, the primary being that it's just hard to believe that it could be that simple. But I don't know for sure.

I'm gonna wait and see. But what the south Korean president says doesn't absolutely prove anything.

Not that it matters. If it all falls apart people who are currently acting like Trump has single handedly brought the Koreas together will simply pretend they never made any such suggestion. And anything saying otherwise will be fake news.

We will see how this plays out. But unlike some I'm not willing to pretend this is over while it's still happening. Maybe in the long run this will be a major victory for Trump, or a major failure, or something in between. But until then all I'm gonna do is watch and speculate. Right now I'm not confident I know what's going on. This is all just my best guess. That north Korea is using this as part of a negotiating strategy. It might be that they have their own internal problems that are going to hinder future testing of nuclear weapons regardless. So they might as well get what they can in the time being for dismantling it if they're gonna have to stop for a while anyway.

But I'm expecting in the long run they'll go back to testing nuclear weapons and similar antagonistic behavior. I think this is all just a show. Which means Trump is largely incidental.
 
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We will certainly see, And if trump ends up reuniting the Korean Peninsula and getting their nukes folks with TDS will still find a way to not give him credit. Apparently he has become very popular in SK.


Oh man this trump rally was good. Made me miss the one I went to last year. I just don’t get how a 71 year old man has such high energy??..
 
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i'm frequently told that us cuck, sjw liberal crybabies have no sense of humour. lighten up we're told. learn to meme!

the reaction from the right to michelle wolf's material at the whcd is funny - republicans should learn to take a joke! lighten up!

also in today's ironic-at-best news: Parkland Survivors Mock NRA for Banning Guns During Pence Speech at Convention

i thought the answer to keeping us safe was more guns? this is an entire hall full of good guys with guns! it should be super safe. i guess not

alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
i'm frequently told that us cuck, sjw liberal crybabies have no sense of humour. lighten up we're told. learn to meme!

the reaction from the right to michelle wolf's material at the whcd is funny - republicans should learn to take a joke! lighten up!

also in today's ironic-at-best news: Parkland Survivors Mock NRA for Banning Guns During Pence Speech at Convention

i thought the answer to keeping us safe was more guns? this is an entire hall full of good guys with guns! it should be super safe. i guess not

alasdair
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I agree, but the constant attacks on Sarah HSs’ looks we’re pretty gross and cringe worthy imo. If she was a liberal woman folks would be marching down the street with torches and pitch forks.
 
invegauser said:
so trump sides with christians...

did not attend WHCD so he could hold a rally for himself yet again.

"You must not make for yourself an idol of any kind or an image of anything in the heavens or on the earth or in the sea."

and that rounds out all of gods commandments and warnings to a human being. next president please. ( i would say he's fired and going to a hell he doesn't believe in but i don't want to hear rebuffs)
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I've long found it interesting that any Christian groups would support trump. I don't mean as in supporting him as a lesser of two evils or the total lack of a better option. I mean actually liking trump.

Because I have a strong feeling that trump thinks quite poorly of the Christians. I think he's an atheist and thinks religious people are stupid. I don't think the Christians would have much love for Trump at all if they knew what he thought of them.

I believe this because he clearly isn't religious, doesn't know even fairly basic stuff about the Christian faith or scriptures. And his tendency to think that he's smarter than everyone else. And his generally arrogant and mean spirited nature.
 
trump-family-values-adulterer-5-military-deferments-grab-them-by-13550465.png


alasdair
 
"Peace in Korea" is a sham. Kim jong-un has his nukes, now he's seeing what else he can get while the US has an imbecile for a President. An imbecile who is prone to flattery. As for the leaders in the region...China doesn't give a shit about human rights and Japan/South Korea are just crossing their fingers and hoping for the best. What other option do they have?

Not to mention the next two Olympics are in Tokyo and Beijing. Those are huge financial and political investments that no one wants to see fail. And they would if the NK issue continued to escalate.

Has KJU agreed to release his slaves from the prison camps yet, or are we just going to gloss over that?
 
JGrimez said:
...trying to spin peace in Korea as a negative...
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if that's your summary, i have to assume you never read the full piece.

in my experience, the idea of peace and de-nuclearization in korea is generally accepted as a good thing. but people are cautious about getting too ahead of themselves. from your link:

While the two Korean leaders pledged to rid the heavily armed peninsula of nuclear weapons
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, they put no timeline on that process, nor did they set out a common definition of what a nuclear-free Korea would look like. Instead, they agreed to pursue a peace treaty this year that would formally end the Korean War after nearly seven decades of hostilities.[/quote]

i also think that there's disagreement over how much credit trump deserves for the way these events have unfolded. you feel he's not getting enough credit. some people feel he's getting too much credit. that's a subjective analysis. but the new york times piece yu link gives him credit:

There is little question, senior officials and analysts said, that the American-led sanctions, combined with Mr. Trump’s bellicose vows to rain “fire and fury” on North Korea if it threatened the American homeland, helped bring Mr. Kim to the table.
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(my emphasis)

even the nyt, who you clearly dislike/don't trust/whatever gives him credit.

when trump was elected, a lot of supporters responded to criticism by telling me that "you need to give him time" and "you have to wait and see". well, the news from korea is encouraging but i'm still going to wait and see what happens before trump's role is fully understood.

alasdair
 
South Korea president says Trump deserves Nobel Peace Prize
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ce-prize-says-south-koreas-moon-idUSKBN1I10OD

SEOUL (Reuters) - South Korean President Moon Jae-in said U.S. President Donald Trump deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to end the standoff with North Korea over its nuclear weapons program, a South Korean official said on Monday.

?President Trump should win the Nobel Peace Prize. What we need is only peace,? Moon told a meeting of senior secretaries, according to a presidential Blue House official who briefed media.

Moon and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un on Friday pledged at a summit to end hostilities between their countries and work toward the ?complete denuclearization? of the Korean peninsula.

Trump is preparing for his own summit with Kim, which he said would take place in the next three to four weeks.

The Trump administration has led a global effort to impose ever stricter sanctions on North Korea and the U.S. president exchanged bellicose threats with Kim in the past year over North Korea?s development of nuclear missiles capable of reaching the United States.

In January, Moon said Trump ?deserves big credit for bringing about the inter-Korean talks. It could be a resulting work of the U.S.-led sanctions and pressure?.

Trump?s predecessor, Barack Obama, won the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize just months into his presidency, an award many thought was premature, given that he had little to show for his peace efforts beyond rhetoric.

Even Obama said he was surprised and by the time he collected the prize in Oslo at the end of that year, he had ordered the tripling of U.S. troops in Afghanistan.

As well as Obama, three U.S. presidents have won the Nobel Peace Prize: Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, and Jimmy Carter

Moon?s Nobel Prize comment came in response to a congratulatory message from Lee Hee-ho, the widow of late South Korean President Kim Dae-jung, in which she said Moon deserved to win the prize, the Blue House official said.

Moon responded by saying Trump should get it.
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alasdairm said:
more lies and hypocrisy: Here's 4 reasons why Donald Trump faking a doctor's note actually matters

alasdair
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wow.
"The President of the United States, as a candidate, faked a letter from his doctor to settle health and age questions."

it's just farce after farce with this guy - it's incredible to me how people can support a lying fool.
what sort of leader lies in situations like that?

it reminds me of someone in a fucked up relationship, and brushing off being lied to.
who the fuck is ok with being bullshitted like that? trump's relationship with his supporters is not a healthy one.
much like his relationships with his staff (abusive), his colleagues (weird, strained, dozens left or fired) or his wife - or daughter.

it's all such a pile of lies.
i cannot believe that anyone is twisted enough to like this guy - surely it's all about either "shaking things up" or all the nationalist hate stuff - but i think the whole thing is based on a solid foundastion of dsteaming bullshit.

trump served his purpose for the republicans by ramming a bunch of tax cuts for rich through congress.
trump never shook anything up, except for the democratic norms of the US. he just destroyed affordable healthcare initiatives, and put the burden of income tax almost entirely upon working americans.

make no mistake - he is a class warrior.

but not for the underdogs, not for the little guys, not for the people.
i think a lot of people saw his crass ability to spit in the face of bourgeois norms, and assumed he was "one of us".
but he's not - he's just a greedy sociopathic creep who rode a wave of discontent, resentment and the division he worked hard to foment, into the white house.

i don't know what trump apologists are really thinking, but i find it hard to dismiss the thought that nobody in their right mind could possibly believe the arguments they make.
he's a weird petty, spiteful pervert who is politically inept, wilfully ignorant and dangerously unidisciplined in ways that jeopardise world peace and global economic stability.
his presidency is an utter mess and total nightmare for countless people. politics isn't what happens on the news - it's what happens to real people, and trump has caused a lot of grief for a considerable amount of people - especially considering his political shortcomings.
but just look at all the abassadors he fired; career diplomats who devoted their life to serving the country, and suddenly - gone.
and i won't mention undocumented immigrants or foreign nationals living in the USA, because it's obvious a lot of trump supporters have no empathy for those people.
but there are a heap of other important government workers - and whole departments - that have gotten the axe under trump.

his anti-environmental ideology might justify massive cuts to the EPA, but the effects of cutting environmental and workplace regulation is more dead americans.
the interesting thing about trump is that lots of self-proclaimed "patriots" apparently idolise him, but the people being harmed by the things he's achieved politically so far are american people.

i'm not necessarily suggesting that trumpists (i mean, people still praising everything he does - contemporary trumpists) all have a hidden agenda.
but it would explain a lot, and makes more sense to me than the positive spin they put on trump.

what do you people think?
 
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right?

to a point, i don't blame trump.

he is, to use local vernacular, mad as a cut snake. not the sharpest tool in the shed. a nutter.

so - y'know - maybe he can't help it. it's just who he is.

but the people that are always arguing in his favour - always spinning his blunders and out-and-out fuck-ups, and never criticising or re-evaluating, or dropping the act - are his enablers.
they're not only enabling an unwell man into great heights of delusion and unwitting self-parody - by acting like all this is fine, they're shitting on democracy.

so in a way i blame trump supporters more than the man himself. they elected a man they have no interest in holding to account - which to me is dangerous, irresponsible, and just plain stupid.
 
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