The 2018 Trump Presidency thread

[Captain.Heroin]

The GDP of the United States in 2016 was $18.57 trillion. We're really not in that much debt at all relative to how much we produce, and being in debt actually allows us to spend more than we could otherwise -- which benefits us in lots of ways. Plus, it was lent to us by China, which is barely even a real country and will probably have another Cultural Revolution-type schizophrenic episode in a few years and dissolve anyway D).

That's an insane pipe dream and it sickens me that people are hoping to grow debt just to have it forgotten/forgiven.

Fuck the Sanders types of people who want their loans forgiven. Fuck the governments hoping other governments go belly up so we can just skate by without paying off our debts.

And we haven't borrowed exclusively from China, ROG.

Is that the point of the CIA? To go eliminate the creditors once we borrow to the point of never being able to repay the debt?

Dangerous socialist precedent that should never be set.

What about the entire debt of the US including all the state debt?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

What about the 38.9 million people living in poverty?

Or 27.4 million uninsured citizens?

We've dug ourselves into a hole that we're never going to get out of.

The US gov't will keep growing obese with employees and bills and one day it will be no more.

China's country is going to outlive ours if we go along with the "let's whack the creditors" plan the Democrats AND Republicans INSIST on.

It's sickening. It's irresponsible, it's immoral, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

And the IRS should be abolished.

 

[Roger&Me]

That's an insane pipe dream and it sickens me that people are hoping to grow debt just to have it forgotten/forgiven.

Well, yeah, that's what makes it a joke. :D And PRC's not going anywhere, at least not anytime soon. But we're not in all that much debt, not at all.

And the IRS should be abolished.

How do you suggest we have a government if we can't collect the money to pay for it? I'm all ears.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

How do you suggest we have a government if we can't collect the money to pay for it? I'm all ears.

We largely don't need or want a government.

If it was legal to opt out of paying for the failed system, almost everyone, rich and poor, would do it.

IRS and Trump are like stereotypical thugs and gangsters from a mobster movie. Amoral relics from a distant past we should be ashamed and afraid of.

 

[Roger&Me]

Maybe we can just ask the 2.97 million civil servants employed by the federal government to work for free. And all the secondary programs which depend on government money can go fuck themselves. But the government doesn't even provide any services that are necessary anyway, so we'd hardly miss it if we just tossed the whole damn thing in the bin.

A more elegant solution could not be devised.

How did mankind not think of abolishing governments sooner?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Maybe we can just ask the 2.97 million civil servants employed by the federal government to work for free. And all the secondary programs which depend on government money can go fuck themselves.

A more elegant solution could not be devised.

Maybe they could find a new line of work, you know, like anyone else who finds themselves unemployed suddenly.

STOP BAILING OUT the corporations, the gov't, and people when they lose their jobs/go bankrupt. IT SUCKS, get over it, move on. Do you think the people who had zero jobs while you were doing well give a fuck about you? NOPE.

They say that the Millennial generation is over-entitled, and I say it's the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Roger&Me]

STOP BAILING OUT the corporations, the gov't, and people when they lose their jobs/go bankrupt.

I was being flippant, but I do understand your frustrations. But we have governments and they're never going away. Creating them was something that can't be reversed. It's like putting cream in your coffee: it's easy to put it in, but how are you gonna get it back out? Governments exist, and they'll continue to exist for as long as people do.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You can brew another pot of coffee.

The gov’t is made of people. People whose positions can change. People who can be replaced.

The #1 abuser of getting lines of credit and avoiding repayment is Trump and he should be ashamed of himself. He is physically incapable of feeling shame.

 

[Roger&Me]

The gov’t is made of people

If you're not careful, I'll literally fucking hire you.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...nt-works-zte-deal_us_5b0a07eee4b0568a880c0a0d

Why Trump let ZTE exception: 5 Ivanka Trump patents worth potential millions.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Not every overdose is a conspiracy.

People hide their drug problems fairly well.

Enough with the conspiracy theories. Take it to twitter. Trump would re-tweet you a million times.

 

[Roger&Me]

Thanks for admitting your bias.

I have never attempted to conceal the fact that I dislike Trump. I don't like the guy, and that's fine. Some people do like him, and that's also fine. Are you suggesting that I should be forced to like Trump? Or are you suggesting that I shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion about Trump because I dislike him? What are you suggesting?

I may have a "bias" against him in a general sense, but who cares? I haven't said anything that was unfairly critical of him. The vast majority of my criticism of Trump has been well-founded and presented in a polite manner. A few of my statements about him have been a bit over the top, sure, but we're all allowed a few eccentric moments from time to time. Overall, I think I've been honest about my opinions and I've been fair in my criticisms.

(And, for the record: I almost always disagree with you, JGrimez, but I do respect your opinions. I just rarely agree with them. That's totally cool, the fact that we're even debating this stuff in the first place suggests that our democracy is functioning as it was intended to. I hope you don't think that I have any personal animus against you if I refute some of your claims, I'm just engaging you in a spirited debate ).

Now your willfully-deceptive posting makes far more sense.

If I was being willfully deceptive, you wouldn't know it. :D

 

[Roger&Me]

Trump has strong support among factions in the IC especially military, this is how he is stays a few steps ahead of his weakened enemies.

This is just gonna end up with us playing a game of ping-pong, because neither of us can actually prove the assertions we're making. I have friends in IC, but how the hell would any of you know if I'm lying about that or not? (I'm not) How would I know if my sources are actually giving me accurate info? (I couldn't) And how would you know anything about IC? (You probably don't). Neither of us have security clearances, so neither of us actually know shit.

But are you suggesting that agents of the government, within our military, are feeding Trump intelligence about private citizens whom he considers to be his enemies? That would be remarkable, not to mention fucking massively illegal. So I'd be interested to hear more about it.

The gov’t is made of people. People whose positions can change. People who can be replaced.

But what happens if we abolish our government while other governments stay intact? What if they see that we've lowered our defenses and decide to attack us and pilfer our resources? How could we defend ourselves against other governments if we don't possess a government ourselves?

Last time I checked, there were like 50 bajillion Chinese people. Not to mention all the other crazy ass countries out there, almost 200 of them. I'm not giving up my government and just hoping all those people behave themselves. Maybe I can say some prayers to GOD and ask him to make those people be nice to us. Lmfao. Nah, I want some aircraft carriers and fighter jets and nuclear subs and shit to help me sleep at night.

 

[swilow]

Not everything is a conspiracy. Not everything can be related back to this nonsense deep state shit. Its unfalsifiable and difficult to engage with this line of thinking.

 

[Roger&Me]

I can think that you are being deceptive but still respect your reasons for doing so.

I've never attempted to deceive anybody in this discussion. I really haven't. I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I've tried to communicate my opinions fairly and honestly. Of course, I've attempted to be persuasive when communicating my opinions, but I don't think I've ever crossed the line into being deceptive about anything. You've availed yourself of every opportunity to refute my positions, and I've read most of your posts carefully and tried to respond to them as best I could. And other people have voiced opinions which opposed mine as well, and we've all had lots of good debate in this thread so far and it's been a very productive discussion. Surely, if I actually were being "deceptive" (I don't think I was), you would all call me out on that and hold me to account for it. By all means, call me out on anything you think is bullshit, and we can all talk about it. I don't have thin skin, so feel free to levy any criticisms against me that you want to. If you end up convincing me that I was actually wrong, I promise I'll admit it. But I might also argue with you if I disagree. Such is life.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Not everything is a conspiracy. Not everything can be related back to this nonsense deep state shit. Its unfalsifiable and difficult to engage with this line of thinking.

Indeed.

 

[Roger&Me]

And why are the career civil servants who comprise the so-called "deep state" not allowed to hold unfavorable opinions about Trump and work to obstruct him in lawful ways if they want to? Who the hell are we to tell them that they can't do that? This is a democracy, and people are allowed to do what they want to, so long as it doesn't break the law or contradict a controlling decision from a higher authority. And that includes the "deep state." Those people are allowed to scheme against Trump if they want to, and that's totally fine. They just have to follow the law while they do it.

Trump supporters don't seem to understand that people are allowed to hate Trump and scheme against Trump in all sorts of lawful ways, because Trump is just a president and not a dictator. And if Trump has a problem with that, then he can scheme against them back -- and that's totally fine, so long as it's done in a way that the law allows. That's the entire fucking point of a democracy. If you don't want hundreds of millions of people scheming against you, then don't run for president. If you can't take the heat, stop whining like a baby and get out of the kitchen. If Trump thinks people are picking on him or whatever, then maybe he should just resign and go home because that obviously means that he's not fit for the hardest job on the planet. There's no shame in that, it's a hard job and most people couldn't do it. But Trump can't seem to go a damn week without whining like a 12 year old girl who just got her first period.

 

[Roger&Me]

I'm beginning to doubt your claim that you have inside FBI info.

I do not have "inside FBI info." Go back and read what I wrote. I said I have a friend who is employed by FBI. I communicated the impression that he communicated to me about the consensus among agents in the bureau on various issue, and I stated what he told me was his opinion on an abstract legal matter which he had no actual professional involvement with (the Hillary Clinton email stuff). He can't tell me anything that's classified or secret or anything like that, because that could land him in prison for a few decades. And I sure as hell wouldn't even ask.

But I just added that stuff for color, anyway. It's impossible for me to prove it, so feel free to believe it or not. The people here who actually know me in real life, they know I'm not lying. But I don't really care if you think that I am, because I know that I'm not.

My only issue with you is that you are unfair with your criticisms of his enemies.

But I want to criticize Trump, not his enemies. Somebody else who cares about doing that can feel free to do so, but I rather spend my time criticizing Trump. Are you suggesting that any criticism I might levy against Trump is inherently flawed because I haven't criticized all the other people on planet Earth whom Trump dislikes? The behavior of Trump's enemies is totally and completely irrelevant to any discussion about Trump's behavior. If I murder somebody, I can't claim "but my enemies do bad stuff too" as a defense. I'd still be a murderer and I'd still deserve to go to prison.

Even if you created Hillary Clinton from scratch to be the single most evil person alive, and she raped a billion children and blah blah, etc, no matter how evil you could make her, it still wouldn't have any bearing on Trump's behavior. Trump is Trump. His enemies are totally different people. They are not Trump. Why would they be relevant to any discussion of Trump's behavior?

 

[swilow]

Its good to see you posting here Roger.
Do you still get swirly?

 

[Roger&Me]

Do you still get swirly?

I'm done with all illegal drugs these days, but my swirling days were some of the best ever and maybe in the future there will be some more swirls. And you know I've been a huge swilow/willow11 fan for years and years and years.

 

[spacejunk]

I find it pretty fucking disturbing that there are people still trying to convince us that trump is anything other than a dangerous idiot.