Tesofensine

[Hammilton]

LOL, that's hilarious, I never realized that. FWIW, is Pholcodine a precursor of any value??

I have had it, and I found it useful for relieving withdrawal symptoms. No idea it was a CI though.

 

[Tchort]

LOL, that's hilarious, I never realized that. FWIW, is Pholcodine a precursor of any value??

I have had it, and I found it useful for relieving withdrawal symptoms. No idea it was a CI though.

It isn't a precursor in clandestine chem. There is no reason it should be CI. The only plausible reason is Pholcodin, like several other CI compounds that are extremely weak opioids, has never been introduced in clinical practice in the US pharmaceutical market. But, there are much, much stronger opioids that are CII but have never been marketed or used in the US. Our entire drug policy from philosophy, to legislation, to judicial discretion, to enforcement, etc are ass backward, fucked up, horrible. DXO (Dextrorphan) is a CI too; though DXM, due to lots of pharmie $$$, will never be scheduled, no matter how many tweens are chugging RoboMax. I also like how a particular pharm. company was able to lobby the DEA & FDA to keep Nalbuphine out of the Controlled Substances Act altogether, even though it was originally in the CII category (where it belongs). Funny, huh?

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

I believe the yanks have oxymorphone listed under SC I and another schedule, under a synonym, which technically exempts it from both.

Now that would be a sick one to pull out in court.

Although doubtless they would say 'the law only applies as we say it does, when we say it does, go fuck a pig' and jail you anyway.

 

[djsim]

It isn't a precursor in clandestine chem. There is no reason it should be CI. The only plausible reason is Pholcodin, like several other CI compounds that are extremely weak opioids, has never been introduced in clinical practice in the US pharmaceutical market. But, there are much, much stronger opioids that are CII but have never been marketed or used in the US. Our entire drug policy from philosophy, to legislation, to judicial discretion, to enforcement, etc are ass backward, fucked up, horrible. DXO (Dextrorphan) is a CI too; though DXM, due to lots of pharmie $$$, will never be scheduled, no matter how many tweens are chugging RoboMax. I also like how a particular pharm. company was able to lobby the DEA & FDA to keep Nalbuphine out of the Controlled Substances Act altogether, even though it was originally in the CII category (where it belongs). Funny, huh?

Yeh that has always gotten me... how the fuck can a partial agonist like Nalbuphine (NUBAIN) be non-scheduled? I used it years ago when I was into bodybuilding for pain relief post-workout and that shit was a hell of a lot stronger than codeine, DHC, or even 5mg IR oxycodone. How the fuck something like this is unscheduled amazes me because it is easy to get hooked on this shit, plus it is legal to buy vials of the shit to IV!
Urgghh!
Also, as far as pholcodine is concerned... would it not be possible to break the ether to form the ethyl-morpholine and morphine(?). Obviously it cant be done easily since here in Australia pholcodine is s2 (the lowest possible schedule, same as APAP and aspirin). Dont require a synth answer... but why couldn't it be done?

 

[Pomzazed]

Breaking ether also break the ether bridge in changing from morphine group to morphinan?

 

[Riemann Zeta]

Dextrorphan is Schedule I? What the fuck? Since when? Hell, I've read papers involving human trials of dextrorphan for neuropathic pain and other NMDA-R antagonist responsive disorders, so it must have been really recently scheduled.

And I thought that nalbuphine was C-IV. If it is unscheduled, I wonder why it is not commonly used? Not that I'm an opioid fan, but the scheduling levels of various opioids makes just as much sense as the scheduling of other drugs (i.e. none whatsoever): fuck, codeine and DHC are C-II, meaning that they are considered identical to morphine, oxymorphone, fentanyl, methadone, etc... I mean, if that is not a great big pile of bullshit, I don't know what is.

 

[nuke]

It's a very bizarre form of loophole in the American drug laws -- adrafinil is also unscheduled but the active metabolite modafinil is. You might be able to manufacture some active prodrug and battle it in the courts on the basis that dextromethorphan is uncontrolled.

 

[Tchort]

Nalbuphine is not used much because it is available only in 10mg/ml and 20mg/ml injectable ampoules. There are no oral formulations of Nalbuphine. But, aside from that, there is a lot of adverse effects compared to other opioids, even most other available partial agonists have less side effects than Nubain. That and, well lets be honest, the mass of media reports involving the Nubain addict community among body builders and steroid users. So not only is it clinically inferior to other similar compounds, and only available as an injectable, it has 'a bad rap' too. Which goes back to why was it lobbied so heavily to keep it out of the CsA 1970?

It has long been argued by the pharm.lobby that since Dextromethorphan is a non-addictive, non-opioid compound, it is the only cough suppressant that can be sold OTC 'safely'- using Codeine as an example of the alternative. In reality it is reasonable that a non-addictive, non-recreational cough suppressant could be developed if they wanted to make one, but they don't. Millions of dollars in R&D, marketing, advertising, etc have been dumped into DXM via brands like Robitussin; and we have witnessed first hand what happens when a popular, well liked and staple OTC medication brand changes its active ingredient (look at all of the public outrage over Sudafed changing to Phenylephrine; anyone who has worked in retail during that switch knows first hand how the public reacted to this). Schering-Plough and co. are not going to jeopardize all those profits. As long as it doesn't produce dependancy, the government and health authorities will never step in and schedule DXM no matter how many millions of people (especially kids) are abusing it to get high.

Yet the non-addictive, non-recreational opioid cough suppressant Pholcodine is Schedule I; even though it has even less abuse potential than Loperamide, an opioid that is sold OTC.

While Carisoprodol, Nalbuphine, Propylhexedrine and other compounds are not scheduled under the Federal CsA, different states have harsher drug laws; a state can schedule a drug within its borders that doesn't appear in the Federal laws. Carisoprodol is CIV in Florida. Adrafinil, Tybamate and co are all prodrugs that aren't scheduled.

But the courts are flexible when it comes to drug laws, they will prosecute and stand behind anything the feds throw in front of them. I'm waiting for a Phenazepam case to hit the case law journals, with a DEA scientist trying to broaden the reach of the Analogue Act to include all scheduled substances and not just CI and CII analogues- which would give the federal government complete legal authority to shut down all RC distributors, and make possession of any recreational substance a crime.

 

[djsim]

Also, as far as pholcodine is concerned... would it not be possible to break the ether to form the ethyl-morpholine and morphine(?). Obviously it cant be done easily since here in Australia pholcodine is s2 (the lowest possible schedule, same as APAP and aspirin). Dont require a synth answer... but why couldn't it be done?

Codeine --> Morphine can be done with a certain 5 membered ring substance featuring 1 heteroatom and beginning with P (not too sure on the synth rules so I dont wanna blurt it out, but I'm sure you know what I mean )
So yeh, if you can convert codeine's ether (methoxy) to morphine's alcohol, why couldn't the same process be used to to pholcodine --> morphine?
I know it seems like a moot point to you USA residents but I wonder how pholcodine can be schedule 2 (equivalant to Sschedule 5+ in USA) if its that easy. I mean codeine is scheduled similarly here (OTC small quantities) but pholcodine (unlike codeine) comes in single ingredient tablets here. It just blows me away that the laws are so inconsistent.
Look at this months Microgram for example. Someone got caught with all this butylene glycol (AKA 1,4-butanediol) and its unscheduled! 8) And GHB? Schedule 1 for illegal sources, or Schedule IV for the pharmaceutical version. Urgghh.
On more thing, which probably isnt so interesting to non-Australians, but apparently Australia had a loophole in their laws making the methorphan (racemic) legal OTC!! Read Gazettes at www.tga.gov.au. They fucked up and made the levo form illegal, dextro legal OTC from Schedule 2 (of course), but the wording was such that racemic was also legal OTC and because racemic supreceeds isomers in this case, it was legal to possess, import etc until 2 weeks ago

 

[djsim]

...hand how the public reacted to this). Schering-Plough and co. are not going to jeopardize all those profits. As long as it doesn't produce dependancy, the government and health authorities will never step in and schedule DXM no matter how many millions of people (especially kids) are abusing it to get high.
....

This is what gets me the most. The got and companies KNOW that people are getting high but they turn a blind eye because profits are made. Ya know what, I have no real problem with that because I'm a realist and a capatlist.
But, it makes me wonder how they cant join the dots so to speak with the bigger picture. Why not just throw in the towel with fighting this goddam drug war. Why not allow pharmaceutical companies to make heroin or opiate compounds to get us high at a reasonable price, where safety, purity, dose etc etc is monitored, and more importantly, companies and govts get a profit? I dont expect responses as this has been said countless times, but the point still stands /rant

 

[Tchort]

A capitalist would probably prefer things stay exactly as they are. The illicit market feeds a licit market in its very existance and the licit market feeds the illicit market by leaving a high demand market completely barren, with no legal or ethical boundries to block profits.