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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Terror attack in NYC involving truck.

m trying to be intellectually honest with you...your question was what action by Trump would cause me to disapprove of his POTUSency? Forgive me...the original question was pages back.. Are you are asking of current and past events, or potential future events too?

alasdairm said:
i'm sure that's an answer to some question. just not the one i asked :\

alasdair
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he means, given the Russian spy aspect now in court, what the fuck it would take for a trump supporter to sour on the guy?

What would he have to do for you to give up on him?

(I've been following too, getting shit trying to follow your post bouncing and dismissals)
 
Scrofula said:
he means, given the Russian spy aspect now in court, what the fuck it would take for a trump supporter to sour on the guy?

What would he have to do for you to give up on him?

(I've been following too, getting shit trying to follow your post bouncing and dismissals)
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A diehard trump supporter will likely find a reason to dismiss virtually anything they hear negative about him.

He'd probably have to personally admit to being an evil monster who bites the heads off puppy's while taking a dump on the Bible immediately followed by proclaiming his love for Marxism while holding a Koran as the American flag burns behind him.

All of that, in person. Might be enough.

Seriously, they are fanatics. They can not be convinced.
 
Well sure, "fanum" meaning "temple" in Latin; fanatics look at Trump as a God.

I'm talking about the ones who still show signs of reason. The ones who can say, "yeah, we were wrong, the guy really is incompetent, we only voted for him cause we don't like people who live on the coasts."

People who can come to the end of an argument when the avalanche of evidence and logic puts them in a corner, and admit they're wrong.

People who can say "no, an adult who stalks a kid across a neighborhood, then steps up to him with a gun, shouldn't be surprised to get hit; and if he shoots the kid dead, deserves life in prison."

But some people just can't say they were wrong.
 
jess said:
Seriously, they are fanatics. They can not be convinced.
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This. It's seriously disturbing that people can welcome a tyrant with open arms.
At least in most dictatorships, you don't question a despot because they'll imprison or flog you.

It seems incongruous that anyone could claim to love america, whilst proclaiming to support trump.
Seems rather contradictory to me - patriots generally don't support people who steal elections and federal governments.

Maybe i'm being too hard on trump supporters - i've long suspected that many don't understand the seriousness of giving fascists like trump carte blanche, and i've not seen much evidence to contradict that.
When you engage them in conversation, the dodge and weave and play dumb. I don't think they are dumb, but i think many are cognisant of the fact that white supremacist views (or whatever "anti liberal" perspectives led them to vote for the guy) aren't justifiable in polite conversation.

I'd love to be proven wrong there though.

The whole mess is pretty disturbing; one of the world's proudest democratic nations being electorally compromised by a foreign government, and a lot of the people who got him there are too apathetic to even question what's going on.

Opinion is one thing, but i'm yet to see a coherent defence of trump.
I know the culture he exploited to get there seems to think it's clever to deny the very concept of truthfulness, but it's the opposite of clever; it's pathological tribalism.

I hope trump dies in prison.
 
Scrofula said:
Well sure, "fanum" meaning "temple" in Latin; fanatics look at Trump as a God.

I'm talking about the ones who still show signs of reason. The ones who can say, "yeah, we were wrong, the guy really is incompetent, we only voted for him cause we don't like people who live on the coasts."

People who can come to the end of an argument when the avalanche of evidence and logic puts them in a corner, and admit they're wrong.

People who can say "no, an adult who stalks a kid across a neighborhood, then steps up to him with a gun, shouldn't be surprised to get hit; and if he shoots the kid dead, deserves life in prison."

But some people just can't say they were wrong.
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SNIP Seriously this is becoming harassment. This is the third time you've brought up the Zimmerman shit in unrelated threads towards me in the last couple days, and in 2 of them you knowingly mischaracterized what I said and claimed I advocated killing children. Which aside from being an outright lie visible to anyone who was in that thread including you. Is also bullshit on the grounds that a 17 year old is not a child. I'm sick of it. Seriously. SNIP
 
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Come on guys, play nice. Scrofula, drop this Zimmerman shit. Its not the thread for it. Nobody really wants to read the same argument between the same people over multiple unrelated threads.
 
You're right. Apologies to everyone.

Nobody really wants to read the same argument between the same people over multiple unrelated threads.

That really is the foundation of CE&P, the principle that sets it apart from all other fora, never before violated by anyone, certainly not in this very thread.

I would commit seppuku here and now, but for my mouse being insufficiently pointy.

Instead I will vow never again to violate the sacred credo, other than a couple more times maybe if I find someone sufficiently annoying.
 
Scrofula said:
I have a feeling you were just as rude to your elders when you were in your 20s and 30s.
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There's no way I would have attacked a 60 year old woman like that when I was in my 20's or 30's. You're just flat out wrong. Civility towards others has changed over time whether you realize or not. There's no way I could put into words how different the world is now than say in the late 60's/early 70's. I've watched as America has turned into almost a 3rd world country. One thing we didn't have back then was the luxury of sitting back behind the veil of cyberspace and saying things you'd never say to someone's face. People need to examine what they're saying in these situations. If they're not comfortable saying it to someone's face then they need to ask themselves what their motivation for saying it is.
 
I'm not trying to get on your case, i wasn't there and the guy might have been a real asshole, but you can't summon the ghost of the 1960's and then say it was more civil and respected authority. Weren't you out there disrespecting the establishment and overturning cultural norms? Of all the generations to make the "respected our elders" claim, boomers have the least credibility.

I'd be happy to have a face-to-face totally calm conversation (skype or hangouts?) about differences in generations, and tell you my belief that everyone is annoyed by the generation that's younger, just like I can't stand these "millennials". Then we could share anecdotes about the various kids we've had to deal with and come to a consensus that 23 year-olds are the worst.
 
Can you be specific? Do you mean Manafort who is charged with activity preceding Trump or you mean something else?

Scrofula said:
he means, given the Russian spy aspect now in court, what the fuck it would take for a trump supporter to sour on the guy?

What would he have to do for you to give up on him?

(I've been following too, getting shit trying to follow your post bouncing and dismissals)
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Scrofula said:
Weren't you out there disrespecting the establishment and overturning cultural norms? Of all the generations to make the "respected our elders" claim, boomers have the least credibility.
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I don't want to derail this thread but I'll just say no I wasn't out there overtly disrespecting the establishment. That was more my older brother's peeps thing mostly because they didn't want to go to Vietnam. Yes my lifestyle was the antithesis of the cultural norms of the times but I thought my elders could overlook that as long as I was accomplishing what they wanted me to accomplish. I was too busy trying to get thru a tough engineering school I didn't have the background to succeed in in the mid to late 70's. It was all about getting a decent job when you got out of school.

Scrofula said:
I'd be happy to have a face-to-face totally calm conversation (skype or hangouts?) about differences in generations, and tell you my belief that everyone is annoyed by the generation that's younger, just like I can't stand these "millennials". Then we could share anecdotes about the various kids we've had to deal with and come to a consensus that 23 year-olds are the worst.
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I'm still kind of fight or flighty 5+ weeks into a bupe withdrawal. You sound like a decent person. Maybe I can take you up on that once I get it together.
 
mgs said:
Can you be specific? Do you mean Manafort who is charged with activity preceding Trump or you mean something else?
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You're funny.

I think Alisdair wisely gave up like two days ago.

So is that how it works with Trump supporters? A story that's been going for 18 months, constantly dismissed by them, leads finally to actual arrests including an admission of guilt, and rather than reexamine any of it, just dismiss it again as "before Trump, so nothing" even though it happened during the campaign?
 
FLA said:
I'm still kind of fight or flighty 5+ weeks into a bupe withdrawal. You sound like a decent person. Maybe I can take you up on that once I get it together.
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Not a problem. While I'm technically w/ding too, it's the miasmic quality to the forum that's making me spasm kick frequently. Like how slowly rising CO2 levels can induce panic. I could open a window, but it does tend to sink and linger.
 
I missed his post.


Look, Im just a simple man. If CNN says no there there (with manafort) why should I think differently?

Feel free to link me to information that suggests the Manafort arrest means Trump "colluded" with Russians.

I'm just going by the news.

Also, what is a "Trump supporter" supposed to do? Call for his impeachment? If you don't like the president, vote differently in 2020. Thats what I did in 2012 with Obama. I don't recall ever (publically) stigmatizing anyone who voted for Obama (especially twice)...my memory was that I was excited for 2016....I directed my energy towards criticisizing Obams's policy... Not his person much less those who voted for him.....Im sure there are examples that I did not exercise the above...but in general I believe strongly I spent my energy criticizing the man...not fellow Americans.

Memories of Obama brings me back to early 2015 when Tramp first announced. Prior I knew of him for the "birther movement" and prior memories of his marriages in the news. With the alternative of Cruz, Trump seemed remarkable at the time.


Scrofula said:
You're funny.

I think Alisdair wisely gave up like two days ago.

So is that how it works with Trump supporters? A story that's been going for 18 months, constantly dismissed by them, leads finally to actual arrests including an admission of guilt, and rather than reexamine any of it, just dismiss it again as "before Trump, so nothing" even though it happened during the campaign?
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It's the same old question, Mr. Seed. It seemed like you were going out of your way to dodge, and I was all het up by the racists in other threads.

How does someone stop supporting a politician? They just do. They stop defending him, for one thing.

I'm not going to link the entire last week of the NYT or Post or other print media. The public Popadopalous stuff, together with these indictments is everything BUT a straight line between Russia and Trump the man. Every indication is that in the ensuing trials/plea bargains, that arrow will become as solid as the plexiglass in protective isolation units.

I have a feeling it won't make a damn bit of difference to his followers, who will just shout "fake news" and invent conspiracies that say it was really Hillary. So what would it take to get them to sour on the guy? I think he could eat a baby live on TV, and they'd just cheer him for telling it like it is.
 
mgs said:
Look, Im just a simple man. If CNN says no there there (with manafort) why should I think differently?
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Considering how much you post about percieved media bias, i wonder if you can see how disingenuous this looks?
I mean a maybe it isn't, i (again) i'm confused by the syntax and not sure how to read it.

Either way, i hope you reply to the above post by scrofula.
 
Scrofula said:
Not a problem. While I'm technically w/ding too, it's the miasmic quality to the forum that's making me spasm kick frequently. Like how slowly rising CO2 levels can induce panic. I could open a window, but it does tend to sink and linger.
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Oh I'm totally into subtle things like C02 affecting our well being. The kind of thing many would call you crazy for thinking they posed any danger. I literally ground my body with an earthing strip to bleed off to ground the negative (or positive?) ions in your body as much as I can. When I was working I was responsible for grounding bracelets that technicians had to wear to keep their bodily static electricity from destroying ic chips. So although it seems inconsequential on the surface, my background registers a grain of truth with this. I mean we don't walk around enough in bare feet to have that contact with the earth in our post-nuclear world and it could be more relevant than the rational mind can accept.
 
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