Tenth Day Of Tramadol WD

[Direwolf131]

Tramadol is a weird one. It is not a typical opioid in the sense that it also has anti-depressant properties as it's an SNRI. That can explain - to some extent - why it affects people differently and why it can be hard to get off after extended use. Of course people react differently to any drug, but Tramadol seems to be one that produces particularly varied subjective responses in people. It is not really a strong substance as far as opioids go, but it's complex and multi-faceted in its effects. For some people it gives quite a nice effect and is enjoyable but on the whole I wouldn't consider it as being very recreational. It is also worth noting that it can create a seizure risk (especially in higher doses or if someone is already prone to them e.g. epileptic).

Direwolf: You're probably getting closer to a point where sleep will start to become more possible. Hang in there. You are strong for making it this far.

Change in plans, tonight I am going to try alcohol, been almost 12 years since last I had even a beer, but tonight I break my fast, if I cannot at least pass out from a few cocktails I am unsure of just what the fuck will do it... Its going on one month absent any meaningful sleep, its just not tenable to maintain this much longer.

 

[Direwolf131]

I keep reading all this stuff on Tramadol,
But it seems to be a weak opiod, ( I am on oxycodone, legally prescribed)

I am wondering does Tramadol pack a buzz? Why are so many on it if is weak, and seems to cause problems.

All those conversion charts vary but oxycodone is 5-10× stronger by weight.
Also, it is just stronger.

Why are there so many tramadol people using, abusing or are addicted?

I had been under the impression that it was like codeine?

I can explain such for you, though there are folks on site who can do so far better than I can, yes for about 50-60% of you tramadol is as you describe it, sort of middling at best, this is because your body does not properly metabolize the substance. On the other hand, you have folks like me, around 40% + who do, the most important take away from that is this, those who do metabolize tramadol properly convert its oral tablet from a middling partial agonist, into an extremely potent full agonist, if I am not wrong many times more potent than morphine!

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

I can explain such for you, though there are folks on site who can do so far better than I can, yes for about 50-60% of you tramadol is as you describe it, sort of middling at best, this is because your body does not properly metabolize the substance. On the other hand, you have folks like me, around 40% + who do, the most important take away from that is this, those who do metabolize tramadol properly convert its oral tablet from a middling partial agonist, into an extremely potent full agonist, if I am not wrong many times more potent than morphine!

I’m one of those people. Let’s put it this way, I have a cousin that sometimes gives me bottles of hydromorphone for my pain stuff. When I have my tramadol I will literally take that and let the hydromorphone sit there and only take the hydromorphone when I run out of tramadol. That is how much more tramadol works for me, that I actually would/will prefer to take that over the hydromorphone.

 

[Direwolf131]

I’m one of those people. Let’s put it this way, I have a cousin that sometimes gives me bottles of hydromorphone for my pain stuff. When I have my tramadol I will literally take that and let the hydromorphone sit there and only take the hydromorphone when I run out of tramadol. That is how much more tramadol works for me, that I actually would/will prefer to take that over the hydromorphone.

Exactly, before tramadol I was on vicoprofen 7.5mg, as much as 12 x a day, building up a crazy tolerance. I was pulled off of that ice cold and as bad as it was all was over and out by the morning of the fourth day.

They then placed me on tramadol 50 mg x 8 400mg daily! Strangely, I never materialized tolerance with tramadol as I did/do with other traditional opiates, of course I get stuck at a certain dose and do not want to reduce, but when I was forced from 400 mg to 300 mg of tramadol, I reestablished my baseline in about 3-5 days, which is again kind of strange.

At any rate, were with hydrocodone I would have over the course of the decade I treated with tramadol continually required higher and higher dosing, with tramadol I was just fine, more or less, at 400 mg and then 300 mg a day for the entire decade!

Tramadol is the strangest freaking opioid, and keep in mind that for the first five years I was on it, three different MD's swore to me it was NOT an opioid, which I now know is laughably ludicrous on its face!

 

[Jnowhere]

I just hate this century, ah the good old days in the 90's.

Actually the first 4 years weren't great and the other 6, well I screwed up and became a drunk.( not anymore)

 

[Halif2]

Change in plans, tonight I am going to try alcohol, been almost 12 years since last I had even a beer, but tonight I break my fast, if I cannot at least pass out from a few cocktails I am unsure of just what the fuck will do it... Its going on one month absent any meaningful sleep, its just not tenable to maintain this much longer.

Honestly, that's pretty reasonable. You don't have any opioids or benzos in your system now, right? A few drinks should be OK, and I understand that you get to a point where sleep is more important than anything.

Hope it works out. I'm sure it's already too late for this, but... try not to go overboard. You don't want an insane hangover on top of your persistent WDs.

 

[momotaro]

I can explain such for you, though there are folks on site who can do so far better than I can, yes for about 50-60% of you tramadol is as you describe it, sort of middling at best, this is because your body does not properly metabolize the substance. On the other hand, you have folks like me, around 40% + who do, the most important take away from that is this, those who do metabolize tramadol properly convert its oral tablet from a middling partial agonist, into an extremely potent full agonist, if I am not wrong many times more potent than morphine!

Hello,
A little bit late with the advice but i would strongly advice against trying to cure your insomnia with alcohol, which is terrible for sleep and in your state it won't help. I predict that while maybe it could possibly help you relax a little, you will still sleep the same amount of hours and won't feel refreshed.

As you have gabapentin in your arsenal (it is quite weak, poorly absorbed) , i would strongly suggest reading threads about it here or asking people about it. In my opinion 300 mg of gabapentin is too low a dose for your purpose (altough i would research it here as i've only taken its much stronger cousin lyrica/pregabalin so i maybe dont know what im talking about). Additionaly what worked for me in tramadol wd (at least a little) was drugs with doxylamine in it which is used for sleep disorders ( i would recommend two 12.5 mg tablets).

To give you some background about me i had withdrawals from tramadol a lot. I would say probably 80-100 times or even more in a span of 5 years. I Was severly addicted to it for like 3 years, taking daily 1000-1500 mg. My last two withdrawals, just like you i couldn't sleep at all for 12 to 14 days (im talking maybe 3 hours max, even with some form of sleep aid). My sleep got slightly better after 14-15th day, i got to 3-5 hours a night ( alternatively i used low doses of carisoprodol, pregabalin, diazepam or doxylamine or combinations of them). I Stopped usage of sleep aids after 18-19 days and this period of sleeping 3-5 hours a night lasted till about 28th-30th day. After that i was able to sleep 6-7 hours a night but still had periods where i would not wake up refreshed or just couldn't sleep.

In my opinion, tramadol wd has two phases - acute opioid which lasts from 7-14 days and and snri phase - which imho either you experience at the same time or it kicks in much later (at least in my experience). i Say so because after the intial acute phase - i mostly had trouble falling asleep, mental and emotional problems but also lingering and milder physical symptoms (allergic symptoms, gut problems, headaches which lasted for me for 2 months, loose stool or sometime diarrhea, dizziness, tiredness etc) - which i attribute to still ongoing snri type withdrawal or maybe it was PAWS. This was my first serious attempt at quitting tram and i felt slightly better physically and mentally (like myself again) after 45 days.

I've read your first post and i think it's terrible that they wouldn't let you finish tapering. You should've jumped at 12.5 mg. It would much better. The fact that
they haven't given you anything to ease your wd is also terrible. The severity of the wd is determined by either both or one of the two: dosage and time, which in your case was a long time. I hope that i'm wrong and you will soon be back to 'normal' but:

If you will still have problems sleeping, i would go to a doctor, explain your situation and ask for a small amount and small dose of a benzo: it can be 5 or 10 mg diazepam or anything. Alternatively ask for pregabalin. Just remember to not take it longer than 7 days or better yet take it for 2-3 days , stop for 2-3 days and then repeat and then stop taking them after 14 days. Of course if its possible take the smallest amout that will help you achieve sleep. Taking large dozes of benzos or pregabalin after this many days of wd won't be necessery. Venlafaxine also might be an option, altough im not sure, if it helps sleep and that it would be good now. Maybe for Post acute withdrawal syndrome, it would be helpful but i would be wary of having to be stuck on it, but thats my personal opinion. As always do your own research.

Also what's improtant is the next step. What are you going to do after you've completed withdrawal. Imho given so many years of being on tramadol, i would except that you will feel slugish, tired, depressed and have all range of distressing emotional/mental symptoms (hope im wrong). That's why its important to: exercise ( going to the gym is the best, but even daily walks 1h+ are so good for your mental health), eating healty and properly (no skipping meals), having something to do, talking to people and just doing all sorts of activities - esp. i find new ones/new hobbys helpful. In short staying busy, the busier you are the better and also maintaining your bodies health. It may take some time - but you will eventually get back to feeling okay. Wish you all the best and speedy recovery.

If you have any questions ask here or msg me privately. When i have time i will answer anything you've got to ask.
Also visit Positive - The tapering thread and Recovery thread. People there will help you and support you.

 

[Señor Moreno]

Agreed. Anything remotely promissing about sleep becomes a temptation when you are at the point where OP is now, but alcohol isn't an answer. It can maybe lift your mood a little, but alcohol allways has been bad for sleep. You don't get any rest from it, and it you overdo it, in few hours you will be adding a hangover to the wd misery. Terrible feeling.

 

[Direwolf131]

I am calling the doctor tuesady and demanding he ante up something to help reestablish a sleep cycle, all of this bullshit was their fucking idea, not mine, I am in no mood to be fucked around with, I haven't slept more than 40-minutes or so in a night for almost 20 fucking days!

 

[Direwolf131]

Called the MD first thing this morning, told them the current state of things, that I have not slept in twenty-days, nurse assures me she will get with the MD, and get right back, and then no call back whatsoever from them, nothing!

Fuck em, I never over the last 11 years asked for anything, never asked for an increase in anything, early refill, nothing, not once, but they treat me like a fucking junkie, what we have here is an excellent example of corporatized medicine throwing me the fuck away! Damn those fucking bastards, damn them!

 

[Direwolf131]

Doctor's nurse called back, his instructions are to take tylenol pm!!! I have been taking gabapentin and two Benadryl and cannot fucking sleep! My blood pressure is today 150/120, prior to his forced cessation of the tramadol it was running 118/60, for years! This is how they roll, this is exactly how a good 25-30% of those poor souls ended up on that Kennsington Blvd in Philly! If you are in a pain clinic, and they cut your dosing for any reason, you are being prepped for disposal, if you think that fucker gives a shit about you, you are woefully mistaken!

 

[momotaro]

Doctor's nurse called back, his instructions are to take tylenol pm!!! I have been taking gabapentin and two Benadryl and cannot fucking sleep! My blood pressure is today 150/120, prior to his forced cessation of the tramadol it was running 118/60, for years! This is how they roll, this is exactly how a good 25-30% of those poor souls ended up on that Kennsington Blvd in Philly! If you are in a pain clinic, and they cut your dosing for any reason, you are being prepped for disposal, if you think that fucker gives a shit about you, you are woefully mistaken!

Is there a possibility of maybe someone driving you to another doctor/clinic and trying elswhere? Maybe trying to get an appointment with a specialist like a psychiatrist?, i feel like any sane doctor would try to give you something to help with sleep, given your state and what you're going through. Sleep deprivation of that kind is akin to torture and they know it , they know what could fix that very quickly and yet he instructed you take tylenol - heartless prick, a lot of them are.
If finding another doctor is out of question and you're stuck with gabapentin. Try taking a higher dose, as gabapentin is not that potent/bioavailability is low, if i remember correctly there's a trick to make it work better ex. You take your first dose 300 mg with some fatty food it can be anything, then you wait for 1h take another 300 mg and then you wait another hour and take another 300 mg and thats your last dose before trying to sleep or not. If i were you i would start at 600-900 dosage, using the method i described , going higher in 300 mg increments every hour untill i find a suitable dose that helps me sleep or i knock myself out completely. Do you have acesss to otc doxylamine? It's much better than benadryl as a sleeping aid.

 

[Direwolf131]

Unfortunately there are no other MD's to seek out anymore, everything runs through a group, and up here there is only one essentia, everything is now totalitarian within the US medical system, well unless you are an illegal alien, they get very special treatment from their sponsors, the democrat party!

 

[Direwolf131]

Is there a possibility of maybe someone driving you to another doctor/clinic and trying elswhere? Maybe trying to get an appointment with a specialist like a psychiatrist?, i feel like any sane doctor would try to give you something to help with sleep, given your state and what you're going through. Sleep deprivation of that kind is akin to torture and they know it , they know what could fix that very quickly and yet he instructed you take tylenol - heartless prick, a lot of them are.
If finding another doctor is out of question and you're stuck with gabapentin. Try taking a higher dose, as gabapentin is not that potent/bioavailability is low, if i remember correctly there's a trick to make it work better ex. You take your first dose 300 mg with some fatty food it can be anything, then you wait for 1h take another 300 mg and then you wait another hour and take another 300 mg and thats your last dose before trying to sleep or not. If i were you i would start at 600-900 dosage, using the method i described , going higher in 300 mg increments every hour untill i find a suitable dose that helps me sleep or i knock myself out completely. Do you have acesss to otc doxylamine? It's much better than benadryl as a sleeping aid.

This morning, Friday in the states, I took a staggered dose of gabapentin, 100 at 7am, 100 at 8am, and another 100 at 9am, and I will not be doing that again, I was sick all day, at both ends of my universe if you get my point! I thought I was back in full onset wd syndrome, absolutely felt like shit all day long! Nowhere in the literature does it state gabapentin can give you major flu like symptoms, at nowhere I could find, all day long, it seems that the good lord is laughing at my amateurish attempts to get back to freaking normal, or some semblance of such!

 

[momotaro]

This morning, Friday in the states, I took a staggered dose of gabapentin, 100 at 7am, 100 at 8am, and another 100 at 9am, and I will not be doing that again, I was sick all day, at both ends of my universe if you get my point! I thought I was back in full onset wd syndrome, absolutely felt like shit all day long! Nowhere in the literature does it state gabapentin can give you major flu like symptoms, at nowhere I could find, all day long, it seems that the good lord is laughing at my amateurish attempts to get back to freaking normal, or some semblance of such!

Tbh that's a very atypical reaction. I haven't heard anything like it at this forum. Hmm, flu like symptoms plus diarrhea you say? I'm afraid that you are in an acute phase of SNRI (antidepressant like) withdrawal and gabapentin does nothing for you. Either that or you are very unlucky to have some sort of allergic-like reaction to it. Sorry for suggesting it but everybody is diffrent. Usually gaba drugs help at least a little. How many days have passed since you started the withdrawal process? I'm guessing that you should feel slightly okayish sometime between the 30-45th day.

TBH, it pisses me off, how doctors have treated you. Given that you were so many years on tramadol, it was obvious that you won't get off easy, they should've let you taper more and give you clonidine, 14 day supply of benzos or pregabalin and you know, you wouldn't feel 100% as withdrawals even with comfort meds are unpleasant but it would've been miles miles better than your current situation.

Is there really no way you can find another doctor. You should visit for example a psychiatrist, someone with knowledge about how drugs and withdrawal works. Maybe someone from your family or a friend could visit instead of you? Or maybe some of your friends or family, someone who you trust is for example taking benzos and could spare you a few. If you won't feel better after 30-45 days, i would seek out a doctor, maybe go to an er? sorry im from eu and dont know how things work in the states. You know you will get through this, you are doing amazing keeping up as tramadol has a really nasty withdrawal process ( i prefered to go through codeine or morphine wd) BUT i'm worried that you will
be so battered and tired and depressed and it will take a long time for you to go to baseline, that i feel like it would be better to try to get a consultation from someone with knowledge.

Oh and you mentioned something about having a antidepressant? Cymbalta? Can you give me some info about that? If it's cymbalta as it's an snri it could help but i would do research here and on google about it before taking it. I don't know it and can't help you with dosage etc.

You are amazing going through this cold turkey, please don't loose hope. Wish you all the best and that this nightmare will be over.
Please give us updates how are you feeling from time to time. Best regards

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Change in plans, tonight I am going to try alcohol, been almost 12 years since last I had even a beer, but tonight I break my fast, if I cannot at least pass out from a few cocktails I am unsure of just what the fuck will do it... Its going on one month absent any meaningful sleep, its just not tenable to maintain this much longer.

How bout Melatonin, Lemon Balm/ Passion Flower extract, Mulungu ... tried that last one? Might work or not.
At least its not a direct GABA-ergic, works in a diff way.

Insomnia these wont cure, but Melatonin seems to add a little help. Like good sleeping hygeine hardly helps , just a little.
Its was in a formula containing the Lemon Balm/ Passsion Flower extract, a sublingual spray i had.

Alcohol is short term solution long term worsening, Effects sleep negatively, and the days after to.
But thats a individual choice i ll leave up to you.

 

[Direwolf131]

Tbh that's a very atypical reaction. I haven't heard anything like it at this forum. Hmm, flu like symptoms plus diarrhea you say? I'm afraid that you are in an acute phase of SNRI (antidepressant like) withdrawal and gabapentin does nothing for you. Either that or you are very unlucky to have some sort of allergic-like reaction to it. Sorry for suggesting it but everybody is diffrent. Usually gaba drugs help at least a little. How many days have passed since you started the withdrawal process? I'm guessing that you should feel slightly okayish sometime between the 30-45th day.

TBH, it pisses me off, how doctors have treated you. Given that you were so many years on tramadol, it was obvious that you won't get off easy, they should've let you taper more and give you clonidine, 14 day supply of benzos or pregabalin and you know, you wouldn't feel 100% as withdrawals even with comfort meds are unpleasant but it would've been miles miles better than your current situation.

Is there really no way you can find another doctor. You should visit for example a psychiatrist, someone with knowledge about how drugs and withdrawal works. Maybe someone from your family or a friend could visit instead of you? Or maybe some of your friends or family, someone who you trust is for example taking benzos and could spare you a few. If you won't feel better after 30-45 days, i would seek out a doctor, maybe go to an er? sorry im from eu and dont know how things work in the states. You know you will get through this, you are doing amazing keeping up as tramadol has a really nasty withdrawal process ( i prefered to go through codeine or morphine wd) BUT i'm worried that you will
be so battered and tired and depressed and it will take a long time for you to go to baseline, that i feel like it would be better to try to get a consultation from someone with knowledge.

Oh and you mentioned something about having a antidepressant? Cymbalta? Can you give me some info about that? If it's cymbalta as it's an snri it could help but i would do research here and on google about it before taking it. I don't know it and can't help you with dosage etc.

You are amazing going through this cold turkey, please don't loose hope. Wish you all the best and that this nightmare will be over.
Please give us updates how are you feeling from time to time. Best regards

I think its been twenty-three days, my calendar is however all fucked up in my mind... I am not convinced the gabapentin acted alone, as I am still fucked up today (Saturday), and haven't touched it! I have been very lightly dosing kratom (which I hate) three times day, and by lightly I ain't kidding, 3 caps x 3 or 4.5 grams in total over 6-8 hours time a day and no more, thats 1.5 grams of kratom every three - four hours or so, which is literally a laugher of a dosing, yet I wonder if I haven't inadvertently cross addicted myself to that awful shit! Kratom's duration is so short its feasible that you could go into wd from such in a matter of just a few hours. If I have I am truly fucked....

 

[momotaro]

I think its been twenty-three days, my calendar is however all fucked up in my mind... I am not convinced the gabapentin acted alone, as I am still fucked up today (Saturday), and haven't touched it! I have been very lightly dosing kratom (which I hate) three times day, and by lightly I ain't kidding, 3 caps x 3 or 4.5 grams in total over 6-8 hours time a day and no more, thats 1.5 grams of kratom every three - four hours or so, which is literally a laugher of a dosing, yet I wonder if I haven't inadvertently cross addicted myself to that awful shit! Kratom's duration is so short its feasible that you could go into wd from such in a matter of just a few hours. If I have I am truly fucked....

Hmmm, i have been through withdrawal from tramadol using kratom as an aid many times. I dosed more than you depending on the circumstances: sometimes 3-5 grams every 4 x 4/5 times a day, sometimes it was 6-8 grams x 4/5 times a day. Using kratom as an aid, usually ends in substituting your addiction from in your case Tram to kratom. I found kratom wd usually much milder (altough i had one very terrible wd experience and there are testimonies here of people having hard time quitting kratom and having horrible withdrawals) and went through it cold turkey. Imho it's good that you are taking something for the tramadol wd, don't panic. Your dosage of kratom is low so maybe you won't have it that much harder. Does it bring you relief? Help you relax, sleep a little? Makes you more energetic? I Would research kratom more because there is so much variability in the potency and effects of diffrent strains, at least thats what i found. My usual go to kratoms were green malay( which wasnt as stimulating) and some yellow ones. If i had cash i also bought red ones alongside green and red, which were much much weaker in terms of effects but it allowed me to dose higher 8-12 grams without side effects (green ones if i weren't tolerant: sometimes gave me terrible nausea and headaches and sometimes i couldn't sleep if i dosed too late). Dosed it at night, sometimes just before sleep. TBH i dont know why but that's what i Found.

I think you should consider emkee_reinvented advice these are some good suplements that he had recommended. From my experience you could also use: Black seed oil (check it out on this forum) - it has a calming effect/sedating and potentiates kratom and Apigenin ( it works on gaba, you probably would have to take higher doses). Also if your in the states muscimol gummies could help you. But i would strongly recommend you to research everything that has been recommended to you. I don't have a full picture of your situation and only you can after carefully researching everything decide what's best to you. Oh and i remembered something but please use it very sparingly like one time a week. If there are drugs with only dxm in your state, you could use that, it's a dissociative and it has effect on the serotonin systems. In low doses 60-90 mg (Max you can go 150mg) it has good effect on mood etc. but use it sparingly as it quickly looses its charm.

23 days, hope only a week and you will be through this sh*t. Slowly getting back to normal. Keep at it, you are doing great.

 

[Direwolf131]

Hmmm, i have been through withdrawal from tramadol using kratom as an aid many times. I dosed more than you depending on the circumstances: sometimes 3-5 grams every 4 x 4/5 times a day, sometimes it was 6-8 grams x 4/5 times a day. Using kratom as an aid, usually ends in substituting your addiction from in your case Tram to kratom. I found kratom wd usually much milder (altough i had one very terrible wd experience and there are testimonies here of people having hard time quitting kratom and having horrible withdrawals) and went through it cold turkey. Imho it's good that you are taking something for the tramadol wd, don't panic. Your dosage of kratom is low so maybe you won't have it that much harder. Does it bring you relief? Help you relax, sleep a little? Makes you more energetic? I Would research kratom more because there is so much variability in the potency and effects of diffrent strains, at least thats what i found. My usual go to kratoms were green malay( which wasnt as stimulating) and some yellow ones. If i had cash i also bought red ones alongside green and red, which were much much weaker in terms of effects but it allowed me to dose higher 8-12 grams without side effects (green ones if i weren't tolerant: sometimes gave me terrible nausea and headaches and sometimes i couldn't sleep if i dosed too late). Dosed it at night, sometimes just before sleep. TBH i dont know why but that's what i Found.

I think you should consider emkee_reinvented advice these are some good suplements that he had recommended. From my experience you could also use: Black seed oil (check it out on this forum) - it has a calming effect/sedating and potentiates kratom and Apigenin ( it works on gaba, you probably would have to take higher doses). Also if your in the states muscimol gummies could help you. But i would strongly recommend you to research everything that has been recommended to you. I don't have a full picture of your situation and only you can after carefully researching everything decide what's best to you. Oh and i remembered something but please use it very sparingly like one time a week. If there are drugs with only dxm in your state, you could use that, it's a dissociative and it has effect on the serotonin systems. In low doses 60-90 mg (Max you can go 150mg) it has good effect on mood etc. but use it sparingly as it quickly looses its charm.

23 days, hope only a week and you will be through this sh*t. Slowly getting back to normal. Keep at it, you are doing great.

I started dosing the kratom I think, 7 days back, in exactly the fashion I have described, I mean it can't be that, 1.5 grams x 3 a day, it cannot be that, just 4.5 grams total a day, can it??? If it is, wtf? No help with sleep, but great help with energy, though only briefly so, as kratom wears off so swiftly. For sleep I am using the gabapentin and unisom, its all I have, and after 23 days I am still not freaking getting meaningful sleep! I wonder if I caught a bug and its all just a coincidence, who knows, but this shit just goes on and on and on....

 

[racer97489]

Tramadol is a weird one. It is not a typical opioid in the sense that it also has anti-depressant properties as it's an SNRI. That can explain - to some extent - why it affects people differently and why it can be hard to get off after extended use. Of course people react differently to any drug, but Tramadol seems to be one that produces particularly varied subjective responses in people. It is not really a strong substance as far as opioids go, but it's complex and multi-faceted in its effects. For some people it gives quite a nice effect and is enjoyable but on the whole I wouldn't consider it as being very recreational. It is also worth noting that it can create a seizure risk (especially in higher doses or if someone is already prone to them e.g. epileptic).

Direwolf: You're probably getting closer to a point where sleep will start to become more possible. Hang in there. You are strong for making it this far.

I would really like to get off Tramadol. Been taking 200 mg daily now for about 3 years and my body is craving more. I don’t like to be dependent on pain meds but had to take because of my back. I wake up in mornings now in a,panic and headaches. I guess my body is missing its dosing throughout night. It frightens me.