Tagetes lucida (Mexican Tarragon) - psychoactive effect

[blackgoku]

Hi! Somewhere I read that Mexican Tarragon have strong hallucinogen effect (similar to Salvia divinorum) but scientisc have not find similar to salvinorin A compound in this plant. I tried to vapo in 160st. Celsius and only feel sedative effect last for 5-7 min. Some of you find a way to get psychodelic/hallucinogenic effect from this plant?

 

[Xorkoth]

I just googled it and all I'm seeing is that the Aztecs used it to sedate their sacrificial victims before cutting their hearts out, and that they also used it to induce lucid dreaming. I don't see any reports of it having any hallucinogenic effect.

 

[blackgoku]

in my e-library on pc i have the e-book of magic plants. If I find e-book I will try in the near future, attach here this e-book.

Mexican Marigold (Tagetes lucida)
Common Names: Anise Marigold, Chili Marigold, Mexican
Mint Marigold, Mexican Tarragon, Pericon, Spanish Tarragon,
Sweet Mace, Sweet-Scent Marigold, Sweet-Scented Tagetes,
Texas Tarragon, Winter Tarragon.
Drug Eff ects: A narcotic or mild psychedelic that is said to
induce feelings of tranquility when smoked.
Classifi cation: Relaxant, Sedative
Short Term Eff ects: Relaxes nervous system, mild
euphoria, relieves anxiety & tension, closed-eye visions.
Classifi cation: Very Mild Hallucinogen
Classifi cation: Narcotic, Pain Reliever
Classifi cation: Stimulant
Long term eff ects: anaesthetic, antidepressant, anti-
infl ammatory, antipyretic, antispasmodic, antibacterial,
antidote, candidicide, digestive, diuretic, febrifuge,
fungicide, hypotensive, myorelaxant, nematicide, pediculicide.
Negative/Overdose Risk: Lower blood pressure, dermatitis, photosensitivity.
Active Constituents: 1,8-Cineol, Allylanisol, Alpha-Cadinene, Alpha-Cadinol, Alpha-Calacorene,
Alpha-Copaene, Alpha-Cubebene, Alpha-Muurolene, Alpha-Selinene, Alpha-Terpinyl-Acetate,
Anethole, Anisaldehyde, Anise-Ketone, Beta-Bisabolene, Beta-Caryophyllene, Beta-Caryophyllene,
Beta-Ocimene, Beta-Selinene, Bicyclogermacrene, Caryophyllene-Oxide, Chavicol, Coumarin,
Cubenene, Dihydro-Tagetone, Eugenol-Methyl-Ether, Gallic-Acid, Gamma-Elemene, Globulol,
Herniarin, Huichol, Ketones, Leucoanthocyanins, Limonene, Linalool, Methyl-Eugenol, Myrcene,
Neophytadiene, Patuletin, Polyacetylenes, Quercetagetin, Quercetagritin, Saponin, Sapthulenol,
T-Cadinol, Tagetone, Tannins, Terthienyl-Aa, Tetrahydrotagetone, Thiophene, Torreyol.
Contraindications / Interactions: Currently, there are no known warnings or contraindications.
Psychoactive Ingredient In: Smoking Blends, Balche (Drink) Incense, Sence.
Legality: Contains no controlled substances.

AFOAF has tried tagetes in the past but didn't get much out of it. With German chamomile he might get decent effects though. Tagetes taken with 5 grams of German chamomile brewed into tea, or 3 drops of German chamomile oil will probably be more interesting than taking it alone because most of the oils present might work better with a CYP1A2 inhibitor.

Methyl chavicol (AKA estragole) can produce a very decent euphoric psychedelic trip at 200-500 mg as long as CYP1A2 is inhibited (this works for AFOAF and a few others but might not work for everyone). If CYP1A2 is not inhibited, it does almost nothing at all. AFOAF and a few others have been playing around with this psychedelic in combination with German chamomile for quite a while. This is a pretty nice psychedelic. It seems to affect more people than nutmeg does, and in a good way (as long as CYP1A2 is inhibited). It also potentiates the effects of other psychedelics (this is probably why tagetes is used with peyote).

Anethole is an isomer of methyl chavicol and is rumored to also be psychedelic. I'll bet in combination with German chamomile its psychedelic. AFOAF has not tried pure anethole yet, but probably will sometime in the near future.

AFOAF is planning to revisit tagetes lucida in the near future. In the past when he used it, he was totally unaware of the existence of psychedelic oils like myristicin, elemicn and methyl chavicol. He tried this herb many times, and did eventually get a tiny bit of an effect from it, but nothing psychedelic, and then he ran out of the herb.

In all the history I've read, this herb is supposedly taken to potentiate the visions of peyote. It's not used to induce visions on its own. But I don't think the natives knew about German chamomile or other herbs that inhibit CYP1A2, which seem to help activate a lot of these psychedelic oils, at least in some people. The natives did however know about Banisteriopsis activating things like DMT orally, which is a very similar phenomenon.

One batch of Tagetes lucida essential oil analyzed professionally was found to contain 95-97% methyl chavicol. That's very high. That's more than sweet basil usually has. This must be the main active in this herb. AFOAF has both pure methyl chavical, and also sweet basil oil high in methyl chavicol.

If AFOAF takes 250 mg of pure methyl chavicol by itself, it produces a mild sedative effect and very slight visual effects. It's so light you could easily not notice it. But when he takes 250 mg with 5 grams of German chamomile, he gets a full array of psychedelic effects comparable to LSD in a lot of ways. He gets lots of euphoria, mild stimulation, visual effects, etc. Without the CYP1A2 inhibitor German chamomile, methyl chavicol is uninteresting. It's similar to how harmala alkaloids activate DMT orally in AFOAF.

I bet peyote has effects on CYP1A2 and other enzymes, and peyote is actually activating the tagetes, rather than the tagetes potentiating the peyote. For AFOAF, elemicin is greatly potentiated by cacti, and not the other way around. LSA is also greatly potentiated by cacti. When AFOAF takes elemicin with cacti, the whole experience becomes a very strong elemicin experience instead of a mescaline one.

I am going to have to get a new batch of this herb to play around with. With his recently acquired knowledge of things like CYP1A2 inhibitors and how they work with methyl chavicol, I'm sure he'll be able to get better effects from this herb. He's excited to revisit this herb.

Besides CYP1A2, methyl chavicol should also be inactivated by CYP2A6. Both of these enzymes apparently cause 1-hydroxylation of methyl chavicol which presumably produces an inactive sedative. So for some people CYP2A6 may need to also be inhibited!

What inhibits CYP2A6? Well cannabidiol found in cannabis inhibits this enzyme and should therefore make tagetes more psychedelic. A mix of cannabis and German chamomile taken orally (not smoked) should be very good at helping activate tagetes. The German chamomile will inhibit CYP1A2, and the cannabis will inhibit CYP2A6 (to some degree at least).

What is a strong CYP2A6 inhibitor that is easily available?

Apparently nicotine inhibits CYP2A6. No wonder natives mixed tagetes with tobacco! I'll bet peyote contains a strong CYP1A2 inhibitor. If it does, peyote and nicotine should activate methyl chavicol very nicely. If my theory is correct.

Another CYP2A6 inhibitor is supposed to be coumarin, found in Chinese cinnamon (cassia). Cassia oil contains up to 11% coumarin.

I found a study showing that star fruit juice inhibits CYP2A6.

Curcumin inhibits CYP1A2 but enhances CYP2A6 activity. So turmeric should probably be avoided.[/quote[

 

[Phobos]

To be noted that methyl chavicol is a precursor to PMA, and therefore extremely likely to be illegal to possess or sale without holding a specific license, at least in some countries.
So while the plant itself might be perfectly legal, the essential oil is very likely not.

 

[Neuroborean]

in my e-library on pc i have the e-book of magic plants. If I find e-book I will try in the near future, attach here this e-book.

Reading this I thought something interesting...

you know, there's some nicotine patches out there, isn't it?
so you have a portable, long-lasting CYP2A6 inhibitor that you can wear for x hours, as needed...

I'm pretty sure in the future one could wear enzyme inhibitors and shit like that (like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-sleep-inducing_peptide )
So I can imagine patches for creating psychedelics in our bodies with the help of some essential oils and other stuff.... Oilahuasca tests are some amazing stuff that I didn't try yet,
I must say that Tagetes Lucida it's a very nice plant, and I plan to get some seeds to do serious high dose fresh tinctures.

wouldn't it be nice?

 

[plumbus-nine]

Isn't the tagetes family known for being pretty toxic? At least these tagetes which people planted in the garden were toxic afaik. But maybe it's akin to fly agaric and that toxicity is exacerbated.

 

[Neuroborean]

the most well known subespecie (Tagetes Erecta) It seems to be toxic for nematodes, and so it's used in orchards and agriculture to control some pests (like nematodes)
That could irritate a bit the stomach, but it's not poisonous or anything,
Tagetes Lucida feels good, and it's pretty tasty, citric and sweet

 

[Didgital]

methyl chavicol is a precursor to PMA, and therefore extremely likely to be illegal to possess or sale without holding a specific license

Ehhh... the PMA precursors are actually totally legal to buy, posess, and to sell in the U.S. They aren't listed chemicals like safrole.

Even Safrole is technically legal to possess (not to sell) at least in small amounts. Any significant amount could by itself be interpreted as intent to manufacture MDMA.

"It is unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally to possess or distribute safrole, knowing, or having reasonable cause to believe, the safrole will be used to manufacture MDMA."

So having large amounts or other chemistry equipment prolly not wise, and that holds true for PMA precursors like estragole and anethole, but you can literally buy any amount of them. There is no DEA reporting requirements, despite PMA itself being scheduled.

 

[Neuroborean]

Ehhh... the PMA precursors are actually totally legal to buy, posess, and to sell in the U.S. They aren't listed chemicals like safrole.

Even Safrole is technically legal to possess (not to sell) at least in small amounts. Any significant amount could by itself be interpreted as intent to manufacture MDMA.

"It is unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally to possess or distribute safrole, knowing, or having reasonable cause to believe, the safrole will be used to manufacture MDMA."

So having large amounts or other chemistry equipment prolly not wise, and that holds true for PMA precursors like estragole and anethole, but you can literally buy any amount of them. There is no DEA reporting requirements, despite PMA itself being scheduled.

Do you think that in places like european customs anyone would pay any attention to something like sassafras oil to look if it has "regularized" as legal amounts of safrole?
I don't think so, maybe something like that happens in USA manufacturing companies (of sassafras oil) that need to take care about the amount of safrole, but my intuituion tells me that it shouldn't be difficult, at least for europeans or other countries to get some full of safrole sassafras oil.

What about camphor? do you know if it's difficult to get some interesting goodies from there?

 

[Didgital]

Do you think that in places like european customs anyone would pay any attention to something like sassafras oil to look if it has "regularized" as legal amounts of safrole?
I don't think so, maybe something like that happens in USA manufacturing companies (of sassafras oil) that need to take care about the amount of safrole, but my intuituion tells me that it shouldn't be difficult, at least for europeans or other countries to get some full of safrole sassafras oil.

What about camphor? do you know if it's difficult to get some interesting goodies from there?

Barely anyone uses safrole these days.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

An old "legal high". Not much on it but a repeat of this line, almost surely cut and pasted all over.

" It has been reported that the Huichol of Mexico use the plant as an entheogen by smoking Tagetes lucida with Nicotiana rustica, and that Tagetes lucida is occasionally smoked alone as an hallucinogen"
Wiki

Tobacco admixtures were often for flavor.

If you feel like being a guinea pig, people have reported effects from drinking a tea and smoking some. I'm not saying to do that, I'm saying I've read that. If I had some, I'd slowly work up to doing that. Take a couple hits, see what happens, smoke more see what happens, try the tea by itself see what happens. Yada.

But I'm goofy.

IMO, you will get a little buzz and a cough. If you do it, report back.

 

[Neuroborean]

Barely anyone uses safrole these days.

Yeah, I expected that, but why exactly? it's too difficult to find the chemicals needed?
I'm not able to start learning chemistry from scratch.. but I find those thing interesting, and I would like to learn it when having enough spare time.
There's some reports of people, specially in forums like dmt-nexus, that explain that some people react very positively to safrole on its own, because of personal enzymatic metabolic profiles.. Same for methyl-eugenol, elemicin...
there's also ways to try to de/activate those with some enzyme inhibitors, you surely know, the famous "oilahuasca" hypothesis/tests.