slimvictor
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amazing!
Think of the children!
(I refer to those whose parents can function better thanks to the use of K.)
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DPMC Moderators: thegreenhand | tryptakid
Tackling depression with ketamine
- Thread starter 7zark7
- Start date
amazing!
Think of the children!
(I refer to those whose parents can function better thanks to the use of K.)
determinado
Greenlighter
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Does anyone know the proper mix and dosing procedures for Glyx-13 if one were to order 1mg of dried powder from a reputable supplier?
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yeah if someone is susceptible to psychosis/mania then this doesn't look like such a safe thing.
sekio
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I'm pretty sure you'd need a lot more than 1mg for a treatment.
http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01234558
This trial is testing 1, 5, and 10 mg/kg IV. "One dose only, Vasily". Don't expect activity any other way, it's a peptide.
So somewhere between 50 and 500mg IV? I wouldn't want to guess wrong.
On the upside it looks like this is a remarkibly easy peptide to make (standard amino acids, 4 of em) and should therefore be cheap to make in violation of any patents "The Man" has on them.
http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01234558
This trial is testing 1, 5, and 10 mg/kg IV. "One dose only, Vasily". Don't expect activity any other way, it's a peptide.
So somewhere between 50 and 500mg IV? I wouldn't want to guess wrong.
On the upside it looks like this is a remarkibly easy peptide to make (standard amino acids, 4 of em) and should therefore be cheap to make in violation of any patents "The Man" has on them.
LogicSoDeveloped
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I know someone who is prescribed a once a month IM shot of Ketamine by his doctor for his depression. He uses that one shot instead of daily antidepressants. He says the drug has worked wonders for him. He has been with his doctor for many years, however, and is also a psychopharmacology major who teaches his doctor about drugs.
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I am susceptible to both and Ketamine never once triggered either of those in me. On the other hand the perfectly legal drug venlafaxine turned me into something that somewhat resembled Patrick Bateman from American Psycho.
Ketamine should atleast be a option to use for treating bipolar depression because currently there is fuck all out there. The only 2 drugs that are safe to take that help bipolar depression at all are lamotrigine and lithium. Bupropion is perhaps the most commonly used anti-depressant in bipolar patients but even though the risk of mania is lower with it then ssri's there is still the very real risk of triggering mania and rapid cycling with that drug. Some atypical anti-psychotics such as quetiapine and olanzapine among others can help with the depression part of bipolar as well but in some patients these drugs can actually make the depression side of things worse. Not to mention all the other risks associated with these drugs.
So in my opinion the more options there are for treating bipolar the better. Plus ketamine is hardly anymore risky then many of the other treatments out there. Atleast it does not cause tardive dyskinesia, extrapyramidal side effects, QT prolongation, akathesia, etc.
I have a friend with paranoid schizophrenia and ketamine has never caused a psychotic episode for him (weed has on many occasions), he says when he's on ketamine the voices are all gone.
Obviously this is anecdotal but I'm just saying.
poledriver
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Is ketamine a breakthrough drug for depression treatment and suicide prevention?
Is ketamine a breakthrough drug for depression treatment and suicide prevention?
BIRMINGHAM, Alabama -- Ketamine, introduced as an anesthetic in the 1970s and abused on the street as Special K, is showing promise as an effective treatment for depression in suicidal patients coming into the emergency room, University of Alabama at Birmingham researchers report.
In a one-of-a-kind study, suicidal patients entering the UAB Hospital emergency department are being treated with ketamine and it is relieving severe depression in a short time, said Dr. Richard Shelton, professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Neurobiogy.
"What we are hoping with this emergency department study is that it will literally change how medicine is practiced in this area of care," Shelton said.
Shelton hopes ketamine would significantly reduce hospitalizations.
UAB Hospital sees about five suicidal patients a day, 150 per month. Half of those are hospitalized, which is expensive.
"With the fact that we are moving toward accountable care, one of the things we are trying to do is reduce people from having to go to the hospital," Shelton said.
Nationwide, half a million people come to the emergency department every year, he said.
"The advantage (of ketamine) is that it is so rapidly effective in so many people," Shelton said.
The depression-easing effects of ketamine can occur within 15 minutes.
Traditional antidepressants can take two to three weeks for effectiveness, and even then nearly two-thirds of the patients don't get completely well.
"The disadvantage (of ketamine) is that its effect lasts only five to seven days and you have to use IV to administer it."
A second study sponsored by Janssen Research & Development will involve treating people with severe depression and suicidal thoughts in an outpatient setting to determine how often it needs to be administered to keep its depression-lifting effects, Shelton said.
For that study, which is seeking participants, a nasal spray will be used to administer the drug.
Traditional antidepressants target two brain chemicals, norepinephrine and serotonin. Ketamine targets an entirely different brain chemical: glutamate, Shelton said.
In higher doses, ketamine has been used as an effective anesthetic, knocking patients out. It is used in this way most often in emergency departments and veterinary clinics on animals, Shelton said.
In moderate doses, ketamine provides a euphoria or a high and therefore it has a high potential for abuse. Over the years veterinary clinics have been targeted by thieves looking to obtain the drug.
But for depression treatment, the dose is low and side effects are minimal, he said.
A third trial under way at UAB is testing something called Glyx-13 by Naurex, Inc., a drug that also targets glutamate.
UAB is looking for male and female patients, from 19 to 64, who have been diagnosed with depression, to enroll in the outpatient ketamine study and the Glyx-13 study.
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/03/is_ketamine_a_breakthrough_dru.html
Is ketamine a breakthrough drug for depression treatment and suicide prevention?
BIRMINGHAM, Alabama -- Ketamine, introduced as an anesthetic in the 1970s and abused on the street as Special K, is showing promise as an effective treatment for depression in suicidal patients coming into the emergency room, University of Alabama at Birmingham researchers report.
In a one-of-a-kind study, suicidal patients entering the UAB Hospital emergency department are being treated with ketamine and it is relieving severe depression in a short time, said Dr. Richard Shelton, professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Neurobiogy.
"What we are hoping with this emergency department study is that it will literally change how medicine is practiced in this area of care," Shelton said.
Shelton hopes ketamine would significantly reduce hospitalizations.
UAB Hospital sees about five suicidal patients a day, 150 per month. Half of those are hospitalized, which is expensive.
"With the fact that we are moving toward accountable care, one of the things we are trying to do is reduce people from having to go to the hospital," Shelton said.
Nationwide, half a million people come to the emergency department every year, he said.
"The advantage (of ketamine) is that it is so rapidly effective in so many people," Shelton said.
The depression-easing effects of ketamine can occur within 15 minutes.
Traditional antidepressants can take two to three weeks for effectiveness, and even then nearly two-thirds of the patients don't get completely well.
"The disadvantage (of ketamine) is that its effect lasts only five to seven days and you have to use IV to administer it."
A second study sponsored by Janssen Research & Development will involve treating people with severe depression and suicidal thoughts in an outpatient setting to determine how often it needs to be administered to keep its depression-lifting effects, Shelton said.
For that study, which is seeking participants, a nasal spray will be used to administer the drug.
Traditional antidepressants target two brain chemicals, norepinephrine and serotonin. Ketamine targets an entirely different brain chemical: glutamate, Shelton said.
In higher doses, ketamine has been used as an effective anesthetic, knocking patients out. It is used in this way most often in emergency departments and veterinary clinics on animals, Shelton said.
In moderate doses, ketamine provides a euphoria or a high and therefore it has a high potential for abuse. Over the years veterinary clinics have been targeted by thieves looking to obtain the drug.
But for depression treatment, the dose is low and side effects are minimal, he said.
A third trial under way at UAB is testing something called Glyx-13 by Naurex, Inc., a drug that also targets glutamate.
UAB is looking for male and female patients, from 19 to 64, who have been diagnosed with depression, to enroll in the outpatient ketamine study and the Glyx-13 study.
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/03/is_ketamine_a_breakthrough_dru.html
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I think that ketamine could be inaugurated beneficially into our medical system; I've seen many articles similar to this one. Considering its rapid efficacy and different mechanism I can see it helping a lot of "treatment- resistant" disorders. Experiences? Never tried it myself, but DXM is a pretty effective one for me. I take small doses weekly.
How many mg/kg, Ho-Chi-Minh? Do you spread out your doses at all? How long before it starts being effective?
I'm sitting on some DXM over here, and am just about to the end of my rope, so-to-speak. It may be some time before I can see a psychiatrist again.
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I usually take about 80mg spread out in two doses in the morning/afternoon. Its not so much for its anti-depressant effects. Its effective after about an hour and peaks in two for me, lasting about five. If you're going to hurt someone (or are looking to make sure you don't escalate your doses of other specific meds in the future) then take it; if not, I wouldn't without consultation from a health professional. PM me if you want to continue this conversation.
DXM is very similar to ketamine and I believe trials are being conducted as to its antidepressant qualities.
DXM is very similar to ketamine and I believe trials are being conducted as to its antidepressant qualities.
slimvictor
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Yes. Along with other drugs that the War on Drugs has made illegal and difficult to obtain.
Stop the war, and let's get to the serious business of learning scientifically about what chemicals help us when used in what ways.
MyDoorsAreOpen
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As an insider in the US medical system, all I'll say is that ketamine is a drug that healthcare professionals regard with great fear and distrust. Every time a new study comes out showing its efficacy for really anything other than procedural sedation in prepubescent children, everyone is quick to downplay and ignore it. And when I ask probing questions, it becomes clear that ketamine's psychological effects are precisely what scares doctors and nurses about it. More precisely, the way they've seen people who've been given it act and talk have chilled them to the bone.
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Can you elaborate?
slimvictor
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Yes, please do. I was surprised to hear how affected doctors were by seeing people on K.
I thought that doctors were used to seeing everything...
I thought that doctors were used to seeing everything...
Captain.Heroin
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Definitely not true. You can IM it, snort it, and probably other ROA's too (I have only snorted/IM/IV it), if you don't mind a lower BA.
poledriver
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Club-Drug Ketamine Relieves Depression in Largest Patient Study
Club-Drug Ketamine Relieves Depression in Largest Patient Study
The hallucinogen ketamine relieved symptoms of hard-to-treat depression within a day of treatment, in the largest study yet of the popular club drug’s use in psychiatry.
In the trial of 72 people whose depression hadn’t responded to at least two antidepressants, patients taking ketamine were twice as likely to report improvement than those on a placebo. The study, by researchers at the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston and Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York, assessed patients after one day and again a week later.
The results support continued research into the use of ketamine, also known as Special K and used to anesthetize horses, for relieving low mood and feelings of hopelessness that plague as many as 350 million people globally. Researchers will present the findings at the meeting of the American Psychiatric Association starting today in San Francisco.
“Ketamine continues to show significant promise as a new treatment option,” said James W. Murrough, an assistant professor of psychiatry at Mount Sinai and one of the researchers involved in the study. Even so, “we have a long way to go before I think we can recommend it as treatment.”
Murrough’s research suggests ketamine may help depressed patients requiring urgent relief. The antidepressant benefits of ketamine were seen within 24 hours in the study, whereas traditional antidepressants can take days or weeks to alleviate symptoms.
Data Needed
More data are needed from depressed patients to establish the long-term effectiveness and safety of ketamine -- a drug of abuse that’s toxic at high doses and known to cause psychotic-like symptoms, he said.
“The enthusiasm is a little bit ahead of the science,” Murrough said.
The medicine, whose street name is a play on Kellogg Co. (K)’s Special K breakfast cereal, initially disinhibits brain circuitry, causing over-excitement in response to a stimulus.
Major depression is caused by a breakdown in communication between nerve cells in the brain, a process that is controlled by chemicals called neurotransmitters.
Ketamine influences brain receptors activated by a transmitter called glutamate to help restore the dysfunctional communication between nerve cells in the depressed brain, and much more quickly than traditional antidepressants.
Participants enrolled in Murrough’s study, which was sponsored by the National Institutes of Health, had suffered bouts of major depression over decades and a third had made suicide attempts, he said.
40 Minutes
They were randomly selected to receive a single, intravenous dose of either ketamine or an active placebo of midazolam, another type of anesthetic without antidepressant properties. The treatments, given over 40 minutes, were sufficient to cause mild sedation and intoxication, he said.
After 24 hours, 63.8 percent of patients in the ketamine group reported a response, compared with 28 percent in the placebo group. After seven days, 45.7 percent still reported a response to ketamine, versus 18.2 percent in the placebo group.
“Using midazolam as an active placebo allowed us to independently assess the antidepressant benefit of ketamine, excluding any anesthetic effects,” Murrough said.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...-relieves-depression-in-largest-patient-study
Club-Drug Ketamine Relieves Depression in Largest Patient Study
The hallucinogen ketamine relieved symptoms of hard-to-treat depression within a day of treatment, in the largest study yet of the popular club drug’s use in psychiatry.
In the trial of 72 people whose depression hadn’t responded to at least two antidepressants, patients taking ketamine were twice as likely to report improvement than those on a placebo. The study, by researchers at the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston and Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York, assessed patients after one day and again a week later.
The results support continued research into the use of ketamine, also known as Special K and used to anesthetize horses, for relieving low mood and feelings of hopelessness that plague as many as 350 million people globally. Researchers will present the findings at the meeting of the American Psychiatric Association starting today in San Francisco.
“Ketamine continues to show significant promise as a new treatment option,” said James W. Murrough, an assistant professor of psychiatry at Mount Sinai and one of the researchers involved in the study. Even so, “we have a long way to go before I think we can recommend it as treatment.”
Murrough’s research suggests ketamine may help depressed patients requiring urgent relief. The antidepressant benefits of ketamine were seen within 24 hours in the study, whereas traditional antidepressants can take days or weeks to alleviate symptoms.
Data Needed
More data are needed from depressed patients to establish the long-term effectiveness and safety of ketamine -- a drug of abuse that’s toxic at high doses and known to cause psychotic-like symptoms, he said.
“The enthusiasm is a little bit ahead of the science,” Murrough said.
The medicine, whose street name is a play on Kellogg Co. (K)’s Special K breakfast cereal, initially disinhibits brain circuitry, causing over-excitement in response to a stimulus.
Major depression is caused by a breakdown in communication between nerve cells in the brain, a process that is controlled by chemicals called neurotransmitters.
Ketamine influences brain receptors activated by a transmitter called glutamate to help restore the dysfunctional communication between nerve cells in the depressed brain, and much more quickly than traditional antidepressants.
Participants enrolled in Murrough’s study, which was sponsored by the National Institutes of Health, had suffered bouts of major depression over decades and a third had made suicide attempts, he said.
40 Minutes
They were randomly selected to receive a single, intravenous dose of either ketamine or an active placebo of midazolam, another type of anesthetic without antidepressant properties. The treatments, given over 40 minutes, were sufficient to cause mild sedation and intoxication, he said.
After 24 hours, 63.8 percent of patients in the ketamine group reported a response, compared with 28 percent in the placebo group. After seven days, 45.7 percent still reported a response to ketamine, versus 18.2 percent in the placebo group.
“Using midazolam as an active placebo allowed us to independently assess the antidepressant benefit of ketamine, excluding any anesthetic effects,” Murrough said.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...-relieves-depression-in-largest-patient-study
I hope it doesn't take too long before NMDA antagonists become an available (i.e. prescriptible) treatment option. I've been using low-dose DXM daily for weeks, and it has pretty much banished my depression. Moreover, it's also helping me tackle the core emotional issues that are partly causing my mood problems. Of all the prescription drugs I have tried, none have been so effective. Other benefits include euphoria, increased imagination and attentiveness. Plus, it goes well with cannabis and other cannabinoids. I've been carefully watching out for mania, and so far all I have seen is a general mood lift and a slight wiriness that doesn't impede my sleep one bit.
Perhaps we'll find -- through research like Murrough’s -- that one cause of depression is the over-excitement and subsequent death of certain neurons, and that by regulating such pathways we not only cure depression but other mental illnesses as well.
Perhaps we'll find -- through research like Murrough’s -- that one cause of depression is the over-excitement and subsequent death of certain neurons, and that by regulating such pathways we not only cure depression but other mental illnesses as well.
RobotRipping
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i've had similar results using DXM as an AD. It just destroys it, though mania is a concern. Low dose is the way to go daily but a flood dose or say 300mg once a week has also been effective for some people. Ketamine is probably a much better substitute though. What about MXE? i think mania becomes a big issue with MXE use.
since chelated magnesium has antidepressant properties as well and is a slight NMDA antagonist, there's definitely some correlation with these drugs and treating depression.
since chelated magnesium has antidepressant properties as well and is a slight NMDA antagonist, there's definitely some correlation with these drugs and treating depression.