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Opioids swapping to methadone and back

Methadone seems to be pretty polarizing as people have noticed. When I switched to methadone to bupe after only a month on MMT, I had some difficult to describe issues that persisted despite being quite high on bupe for the first few weeks. I imagine that these extra activities of methadone are significantly more pronounced in certain individuals than in others.
 
The longest ive been on methadone is 3 months and once i jumped off at 50mg, no taper; ive done short term tapers before with no problem; and i am on it again planning to taper in about a month. Ive heard from friends that methadone is difficult to get off of if one was takign it for years. just sharing..
 
I have had experience with Methadone withdrawal. Plenty of it to boot. But rather than fight the anecdotal battle (i.e. my experience with Methadone withdrawal syndrome is less severe than Heroin withdrawal and less psychologically tormenting than Buprenorphine withdrawal syndrome so therefore you are wrong), My point is that despite my personal experience, what should be evaluated are the sound, verifiable facts about Methadone; about it's use for a number of purposes (addiction detoxification, maintenance, as a potent pain medication for a variety of specific conditions, etc) and the volumes of medical literature backing up it's efficacy in certain areas, its side effects in different situations, and potential benefits in different personal medical and psychological situations of different patient populations. So I'd say that's a bullshit cop out on your part to not take what I'd have to say seriously even if its backed up by the myriad of studies done on the uses of Methadone treatment to positively benefit the lives of different patient groups (another example being the use of Methadone maintenance in pregnant heroin addicts- it has been well documented that treatment with MMT is the first line treatment for such women patients because it can lead to a healthy newborn baby with proper neonatal care and post-birth medications; whereas continued heroin use with its ups and downs of blood serum levels of opioids or cold turkey withdrawal may be enough to seriously damage the health of the fetus/child or even lead to spontaneous termination of the pregnancy even in the latter stages). Should a pregnant heroin addict avoid Methadone, even though it will not only increase the health and prospects for the fetus/child, but also the overall health and stability of the mother, because of the stories about Methadone withdrawal?

We could also look up the numerous reports that Heroin withdrawal is the most excrutiating opioid withdrawal syndrome; this does not mean that Diamorphine isn't a very effective severe pain medication, an excellent palliative, and an invaluable resource for the treatment of otherwise treatment resistant, chronic and long-term heroin addicts.

I don't think my personal experience with Methadone withdrawal should color the conversation. Your whole argument is that personal reports are the be all end all when it comes to determining whether Methadone is worth taking in any circumstance, by any person, for any medical reason. I'm far from the only BL member who has reported finding Methadone withdrawal syndrome to be more benign than that of other opioids. Rachamim is a member who wrote about his experiences that Methadone withdrawal was a cake-walk compared to Hydromorphone and Morphine withdrawal if my memory serves. I have years of experience with Methadone, have gone off of it for different lengths of times for different reasons at reasonably high therapeutic dosages. I recall Rach having decades of experience and numerous detox's with Methadone and other potent opioids. It simply is not 100% true that Methadone withdrawal is more severe, more painful, worse, than the withdrawal syndrome of other opioids.

I'd go further and say that even if this were so; even if Methadone withdrawal syndrome was qualitatively more painful and unpleasant in every way than the withdrawal syndrome particular to any other opioid, it simply would not change the fact that it has documented (and well documented at that) impacts on the physiological conditions of addicts and chronic pain patients. A cold turkey, a 21 day reduction (the AMA Gold Standard for treating heroin addiction), or a very long and slow taper from Methadone are simply not the only options open to a person who has become dependant on Methadone for medicinal reasons. And again, even if it were, even if those were the only options, the potential for drastic improvements in the day to day lives of persons suffering from substance abuse disorders and chronic pain leading to a much higher standard of living would still be worth it in my opinion. Thankfully, neither of those 2 scenarios are facts. That being said, there just isn't any compelling evidence that the negatives outweigh the positives.


I take your point but cannot agree. Firstly and most relevantly, the OP is not considering methadone for the treatment of a full-agonist addiction. So there's half your post gone.

Secondly, you seem to be favouring obviously extreme scenarios in order to support your argument. This is usually a sign that an argument is indefensible. For example, we are not talking about either pregnant women using methadone, or the efficacy of diamorphine as a pain medication. What we are talking about is the reasonableness of switching from fentanyl to methadone apparently in the absence of any straightforwardly compelling reasons for doing so. There are just so many opiates out there that, in my view, and irrespective of methadone's efficacy in terms of pain relief, it should really be held off for as long as possible.

But this really brings us to the real issue, namely, what authority ought to be given to anecdotal evidence or the reported experiences of users/chronic pain patients. It seems to me that in addiction medicine, if anywhere, evidence of this sort ought to be privileged. Addiction medicine (like psychiatry generally) is unique to the extent that the practitioners generally have absolutely no personal experience with the medicines and conditions involved. In this way there's inevitably a massive gap and empathy often becomes a problem - so, we hear people telling us of doctors who said that valium is not addictive, or that buprenorphine withdrawal lasts between 1 and 2 weeks, and so forth. Doctors in this area of medicine are notoriously and disasterously prone to error on account of their lack of experience. So I really think that the reported experiences of users of these medicines need to be given attention. And it is virtually universally acknowledged that methadone is amongst the most difficult opioids to withdraw from. The fact that your own experience was not especially traumatic shouldn't prevent you from recognising the broad consensus that emerges in these forums respecting the nature of methadone withdrawal.

I'm pretty sure there's also at least one study cited on Wikipedia that was concerned with the unique severity of methadone withdrawal.
 
I'm on methadone 24 years by choice. Withdrawing from it is no different than any other opioid. You just have to do it more slowly than other ones. As far as pain, there's nothing better. The only time people start to fall asleep is when they take much to much. Respirtory depression isn't a factor unless you combine it with other drugs like xanax or clonopin. At normal doses of whatever drug you take while taking methadone is very safe. Ignorance of people not familiar with methadone is what gives it a bad name. I withdrew once over a 10 mth period at 10 mg a month. Then 5 mg a month after. I was and am again on 160 mg. it's a life saver!. Like I said I'm on it 24 years this time and 33 out of the last 40 so if you need ANY info on it write me. Don't listen to old wifes tails or people here who know nothing about it. I know the many goods and the few bads about it so again, feel free to e-mail me privately if you need. I don't know if there's a way to give you my e-mail without posting it for everyone but hey, if you send yours I'll send mine.
 
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