Sudden Suicide - Help with Understanding

[arthunter888]

Hello. I recently lost a loved one. About 2 weeks ago, my uncle committed suicide. He was 50 years old. He drove to a wooded area near his house. He left his car parked near the river, and went in the woods to hang himself from a tree.

After no family member has heard from him a week later, after many phone calls and messages, They became worried. His immediate family called the local police, and asked for help. It took them a few days before they noticed his car by the river. A few days later, they found the body in the woods, and reported to our family.

He was a very peaceful man. He was bipolar, and took medication for it. It seemed to work, he always appeared to be happy and showed no signs of depression. He was very giving... to a fault many have said. His mental condition included being just a tad slower than normal, just socially naiive. He always sacrificed for others, and was not able to say "no" to favors (e.g. always giving holiday/birthday card-money when he couldn't afford, driving friends places, doing errands for his mother). He lived on his own, was single, had a meager job (just enough money for a lower class house) and a car. He was literally the most self-less person I knew.

My struggle is that I can not come to terms with his suicide. The only thing I have pondered over is that recently in addition to sacrificing himself to do favors, he was asked and felt obligated to help his mother after her surgery with errands many times a week, more than usual and she lives over an hour away. This was stressful for him.

Other than this, he left no note, left no direct or subtle hints to anyone one beforehand. He went grocery shopping the day before. He also was a collector of antiques/coins, and was active up until his demise (a long term hobby). However he recently started smoking cigarettes again after 7 years a month before death. He showed no signs of depression.

Because of the grocery trip, and his collection, I can't understand whether this was planned more than weeks ago, or it was impulsive from a mood swing or a bad day. Maybe because of his illness he felt a deep, ever-present mental pain that could not go on any longer? Maybe a combination of his stressful sacrifices, a hot, very humid day, a bad mood, and bi-polar caused an impulse? It's tough not knowing, and knowing can help me be at peace with this, to feel his reasons.

Sorry for length, thanks for reading this far. Please help me seek closure. Apart from sadness, guilt, this is the worst part. What insight can you offer about understanding, and closure? And if you have lost a loved one this way, how did you cope?

 

[HamClamp]

I'm so sorry for you and your family's loss.

I don't know that I can offer you any comfort other than so say that whatever his pain was is now gone and he is at peace. I recently lost someone to suicide as well and I don't know that I will ever resolve it and "get right" with it. All I can offer is that it does, albeit slowly, get a little better in time.

Expect to run the full gamut of emotions from sadness to anger and all points in between. Allow them and move through them as best you can. In time you will heal. I wish you the very best in this difficult time.

Peace to you and yours.

 

[Ixchellian]

Forgive me for being blunt; I'm not trying to be a dick, I've just dealt with more loved ones dying than I care to think of..... and I've developed a different perspective of death that might help.
Just hear me out, please. If you or anyone else doesn't like it; forget it. And what I say is my fuckin' problem, not anyone else's to argue over if they don't like it. And if the mods don't like it for whatever reason, they can just vanish it or censor my dirty way of speaking, and I won't argue. What's fair is fair, and life isn't fuckin' fair.

Okay? okay.

For starters, get the 'why' out of your head. He did what he did for reasons you'll never know, and it doesn't fuckin matter what you could've or might've done.... There's nothing you can do now to change anything. Searching for, and beating yourself up over the why, is just self-harm by a different name.

He's dead. Gone.

What you do *after* someone's gone and died on yeh is what's important. You can sit there wallowing in woe with the gnashing of teeth, or you can honor the man in whatever way you think think is appropriate.... like the way he may have liked.
That's what wakes are for; honoring a loved-one's memory and expressing of personal grief, but in a more constructive and cathartic way. Remember his life, not his death.

And don't dwell on the fuckin' 'how' either. *That's* just morbid masochistic curiosity. We all have it, because by nature we're all curious about death (why else do people slow to gawk at serious accidents?).
Dying is never an attractive process..... unless its while sleeping and because of being old as fuck.... except that rarely happens to most people. Self-preservation makes us go kicking and struggling for life (normally), unless it's quick like a shotgun blast to the head, or a conventional/nuclear one.
For traumatic death (hanging counts as such), the aftermath is always messy and unavoidably disturbing (even for me... unless it's an insurgent).
That's when shit burns into your psyche, like it or not. Witnessing or seeing what's left over is always gonna be there.... no matter what, death has a way of sticking around with those still alive. How it's dealt with is the question.

So why dwell on that shit?..... unless you just like feeling bad, and that means you've got other goddamn issues.

Look, unless you *saw* it happen or the ugly leftovers after, dwelling on it is just stupid; a waste of time, and is self-destructive. It does nothing for helping you deal with the initial shock & later gref.

First cry because his was a good life lost too early, and then just fuckin' ruck-up and drive-on.

I know that's harder than it sounds, but you gotta fuckin' live your life, not someone else's death. Otherwise you're just an empty pair of boots, combat non-effective.

----> Again.... I'm sorry if I'm being too blunt, or if it's insensitive to some. I am, in my own way, trying to help. Sometimes..... it just takes the cold hard slap of reality to come out of something like this whole.
I've just seen sustained grief & constant what-if's really screw up a few lives.
We don't have to let go of lost loved-ones entirely.... we can't actually..... just that which we have a measure of control over.

 

[Memeito]

[this is really insensitive, please be more thoughtful and considerate in the future - n3o]

 

[junctionalfunkie]

I have known more suicides than the average person, I just learned a year or two ago. Five successes, ranging from acquaintances to close friends; Innumerable failed attempts.... well into double digits.

It hurts terribly, I know. More than just a regular death, because the question "Why?" will most likely never be answered.

So sorry for your loss.

All I can say is that Time heals all wounds. It really does. Be strong.

 

[das_feuer]

Perhaps he wasn't doing as well as everyone else thought he was and he didn't want to admit it for some reason. It is very possible that his medications stopped working, too; this is always a possibility with bipolar disorder, one that I hope I will never have to deal with as I have the illness myself.

You really just need to move on. You won't get any answers. Also, suicide notes are extremely uncommon despite what you see on TV or in the movies. What you see on TV and in the movies is hardly ever accurate when it comes to mental health issues.

Your uncle likely wasn't himself and wasn't thinking normally when he did this, if that is any consolation. I hope that you can overcome this and move forward in your life.

 

[hobhead]

the side effects of some of the common antidepressants list the possibility of suicidal ideation as well as other less terrible things.

 

[Ixchellian]

the side effects of some of the common antidepressants list the possibility of suicidal ideation as well as other less terrible things.

Rog, a big Fuckin' A on that.
Something to watch for, people. I think we all know drugs can do some fucked-up things to the human body & mind.

 

[placid space]

I would say you are right and the fact that he started smoking is a big clue. He was obviously under stress. All the things that you mentioned that were taking up his time, the fact that people and family also exploited him a bit but more over the fact that he was 50years old man who had no partner, no one to really confide in can be very stressful. And on top of that he had a bipolar disorder, these are all things that put together burden a man very heavily. People are very good at keep up appearances, pretending to be ok. And most people except very very good friends do not wish to really investigate more deeply if someone is troubled. Life is not easy as it is. So no wonder no one knew how he really felt.
So in the end I would agree with you that it a result of many factors. And one day many of them or most of them came together. Very sad really. I am sorry.
Try best not to dwell on it. If you have to dwell on something, dwell on impermanence of life. Appreciate your life and see it as a gift and try not to mourn for too long. But that does not mean not to think about the people that have passed on. I know that coping after losing a loved one is very hard. Especially because, well at least in my case, you always feel you have not done enough. It takes time and understanding that you did what you thought was best at that time. We change and learn constantly. Today you would have acted differently. What is important IMO is that we learn from it what we can, help when we can (though it is important to know when you cannot help) and appreciate them as they were a part of our life.

 

[BEEF/N/BROKLY]

<snip>

yo I'll fuck u up if I ever meet u, u aint no better than any crazy motherfucker out there...

Sorry for your loss, I too was on meds for bipolar and skitzo treatment and was the most suicidal at those times. Side affects for a lot of those pills like depakotes and a bunch of other I was on( could be what he was taking) are suicide. And at the very least suicidal tendencies and thoughts, and I speak this because I was locked up wit a bunch of skitzos bipolars u name it and they all hated da pills as well said dey wanted to die on dem, they just keep u timid and dull so u appear happy, passive, but in reality they bad. I'm not saying it was soley due to the pills, but you should check the brand and the affects of what he was taking. Not that money should be on your mind, but you could get a lawsuit for certain pills if suicide occurs, specially if they were non suicidal b4 meds.

 

[Carmella Boyle]

My wife hanged herself seemingly randomly as well. She woke up late for an important meeting and missed it. I am pretty sure she showered and had lunch before saying on IM "brb gotta reboot" last I heard from her. Got home and found her in the flat. There was a note, but the police had to point it out to me cos I didn't notice.

Come to terms? Good luck mate. Your life will go on as will that of those around you. Your uncle's choice and my wife's choice was their own and we have to respect it even if we don't agree with it. Unfortunately it's often the case that the only person who knows why they chose to end their life is the one who has already ended it; the notes, if any, don't really help answer questions. Why didn't they ask for help? Why didn't they call 911/999? Why the hell did they seem to carry out a normal day then "snap"? We may never know...

All I DO know is that my wife's suicide was an active choice she made to end some kind of suffering she was enduring and now that suffering is obviously stopped. It would seem that her choice - even if it isn't one I'd take (right now) - has proved itself effective. On the downside everyone misses her a lot. It's hard to take issue with someone taking steps to end their own suffering, even if it's a drastic step.

 

[arthunter888]

Wow, I never would have expected this thread to get derailed in this way. Anyway, in my opinion the medicine is a mute point. Sure I believe that anti-psychotics and mood stabilizers can induce suicidal thoughts. But he had been on it for at least 10 years, probably longer. It doesn't seem likely to me that it would just now be inducing suicidal thoughts. If anything they
should be decreasing over time. Is there something I'm missing?

 

[n3ophy7e]

To the last 3 people who's posts I've had to clean up in this thread, have some goddam fucking respect for this person who's uncle has died. This thread is to mourn the loss of his loved one and to support him coping with this tragic event, NOT for you to self-indulgently dribble crap about your uneducated opinions.

If you have something to discuss which is clearly off-topic and disrespectful in a thread like this, take it to PMs. If any of you do this again, either in this thread or any other threads, you will receive official warnings.

________________________________________________________________________

My struggle is that I can not come to terms with his suicide. The only thing I have pondered over is that recently in addition to sacrificing himself to do favors, he was asked and felt obligated to help his mother after her surgery with errands many times a week, more than usual and she lives over an hour away. This was stressful for him.

Other than this, he left no note, left no direct or subtle hints to anyone one beforehand. He went grocery shopping the day before. He also was a collector of antiques/coins, and was active up until his demise (a long term hobby). However he recently started smoking cigarettes again after 7 years a month before death. He showed no signs of depression.

Because of the grocery trip, and his collection, I can't understand whether this was planned more than weeks ago, or it was impulsive from a mood swing or a bad day. Maybe because of his illness he felt a deep, ever-present mental pain that could not go on any longer? Maybe a combination of his stressful sacrifices, a hot, very humid day, a bad mood, and bi-polar caused an impulse? It's tough not knowing, and knowing can help me be at peace with this, to feel his reasons.

Sorry for length, thanks for reading this far. Please help me seek closure. Apart from sadness, guilt, this is the worst part. What insight can you offer about understanding, and closure? And if you have lost a loved one this way, how did you cope?

Firstly, arthunter, I am so sorry for your loss. The death of a loved one is always painful but when it's as sudden and unexpected as this, and when they take their own life, it makes it so much harder for the people left behind. You have all these questions, which to be honest, will never be answered. This is probably the most horrible thing about suicide, you will never know how long he'd been planning it, you'll never know the exact reasons, you'll never know what he was thinking about that day. This is something you will eventually have to come to terms with. The best thing you can do is to remember that whatever torment he was going through, he is at peace now, he has finally found the solitude that he was looking for. Talk to your family, supporting each other is what is going to help the most to get through this. Be there for each other and share stories of his life so that he can live on in your memories.

Take care, and please feel free to post in here if you need help or if you just need to talk more about it

 

[arthunter888]

For those who were constructive, thanks for the support. I guess the lack of closure just boils down to whether it was planned, or impulsive. I noticed some factors behind his possible depression, in retrospect, but certain subtle details make me think about impulse.

If it was planned, I could be at peace with this. In this case, he had been suffering continually to the point that needed to be ended. While I would feel some resentment to those who stressed him out with ''obligations'', and I would be frustrated that maybe could it have been prevented, ultimately I could accept that the combination of mental illness and un-satisfaction with his overall life created a nagging mental pain that he chose to end.

If it was impulsive, I would be less at peace. In this case, it's just hard to accept that he was the victim of chance. For example, a combination of: An extremely humid oppressive day in July. The instigation of a mood swing from bi-polar. Even bad side effects from medication, such as suicidal thoughts, happened to occur that day. Flaring of psoriasis that he had on his skin. While there would still be the non-chance influence of his stresses, I think, "What a waste of a good man, he was much more worthy than to have died from just a bad day!" Sort of like a cruel joke played by fate.

This kind of contributes to my conflict regarding human collectivity. I mean, it seems in general the world's greatest and most positive/genuine people are more prone to being ended prematurely. Take JFK, Martin Luther King, Abraham Lincoln. And most of all, Terence Mckenna. I have trouble accepting why good people are always taken away more quickly than bad people.

 

[Jekyll and Hyde]

I think I can give a different perspective on this thread, as I've been on the other side. I personally have had 2 seemingly sudden suicide attempts. Each day I've tried I lived it like any other day, which was depressed and thinking about it, but never thinking I would actually go through with it. There were events that made each attempt impulsive, its neither here or there what the event was, but at that point my pain was much greater than what I at that point had for coping abilities. My emotions are irrelevant because my thoughts aren't your uncles and I can't sit here and ponder what his thoughts were. But I was in a deep depression, and seemingly from an outsiders point of view seemed fine. It was so straining to put up this facade just to reassure everyone that I was ok, but I was a dark hole inside. It wasn't uncommon for me on either attempt that it was impulsive.

I'm sorry for your loss, I haven't lost anyone via suicide, but I figured I could give you my perspective on my failed attempts just to let you know that sometimes something can trigger impulsive attempts. He very well may have seemed normal to the naked eye, but depressed or bipolar people can go through all sorts of stress to put up this facade that makes them seemingly all right.

I give my condolences, and hope you mourn your uncle and remember the good times, and keep yourself around family.

 

[Ixchellian]

If it was planned, I could be at peace with this.....
If it was impulsive, I would be less at peace.

Ah.... there's the crux of the biscuit.

Questions are; do you want to, and how are you gonna find that out; and do you really want to dig that deep to find out either way, mainly for your emotional easement?
It could help, but just check six if you do.

I'm not saying he did, but sometimes people kill themselves out of guilt & shame for something bad they did, which their family & friends had absolutely no inkling of.
Is it better to leave their skeletons buried (as they tried to permanently do), or dig them up unexpectedly to everyone's eternal edification?

Just a thought.
......

I have trouble accepting why good people are always taken away more quickly than bad people.

Plenty of bad people are taken out all the time, but it's only the good ones you hear about.

Trust me on that.

 

[starEkstasis]

hi may i offer something alternative but kindly meant

hi arthunter888,



people can choose when they want 2 go, sometimes
it is called early termination
i believe, sincerely, that ur uncle had a moment of clarity when, 2 be honest, he thought "i actually know what I want, for a change - and I can make my own mind up and do what I damn well want!"

it might seem an odd thing to do and please believe I am not being flippant or cocky or taking what I am saying lightly - or his death and ur subsequent and continuous suffering - just I deal with this everyday - it is my vocation.

and i hope you might not be offended by me saying that he is sat on my sofa, by my side urging me to tell you this. again, this is my vocation. and i professionally help people all the time in this way.

he felt he had control , for once in this recent stage of his life. and he hadn't felt like that for quite a long time. life had overtaken him. and i don't believe he was the kind of person who liked that. his personal power had been taken away from him and this made him very sad and yet his love for those near and dear to him especially his mother made him unable in a chain-like way to let go his obedience to help her in the way only a son could. and should, he says.

so... he had control over only 1 thing really. not the way he was born or to some extent the way he lived, especially in more recent times. but yes, the way and when he would die. and he chose to exercise that control as a call to life again to say I am here, I did not die in vain and taken away by time and old age and fade away. I chose to die as a tiger brave & strong for I chose to die the way I chose. not the way anyone else could choose for me wearing me down with tiredness and fear, or wearing away at my bones or losing my way in some way with alzheimers or dementia or cancer or anything else that cud eat away at you. he says he had a good life overall and you have yours all ahead of you now. and go live it!

someone else has said this in a different way, earlier in this thread.
and these are ur uncle's words echoing what that person said and confirming it clearly.

he didn't suffer in the way you thought and have imagined he did over and over again I believe you have thought about that. it was quite quick in a way in that archangel michael reached down and took his soul back to heaven with him. he was good, as you said, so no problem there. he is not in purgatory or some form of hell. he said, in fact hell was becoming his life here on earth and he could see in some way, it only getting worse. so he decided to buy his ticket - early, so to speak, to heaven on a one way ticket "home" -

don't forget well maybe it's not obvious to everyone, sorry i jump to conclusion, but we have all our dead mates and relatives and other loved ones - pets etc , even insects we have loved - i myself had a stick insect for example ! - waiting for us up there. so it's home to us, naturally.

i hope you may find a grain at least of truth - a resonance with you which will tell you what we have said is true - ur uncle and i - to make you feel some peace within yourself

he is only unhappy he left you all behind worrying about him and he says for that moment of selfishness! he is sorry but can you see - he took just 1 moment of carefully considered and yet spontaneous selfishness - only just 1 - in his life

please do not think badly of him
in the end we have to accept the responsibility for making ourselves happy and being satisfied with our lives. he took responsibility for the way he lived and therefore the way he chose to die - like a soldier actually - i see a soldier in him in uniform for some reason. a greyish green one. kinda fadey. maybe old.
no hat though.

he died that way and honours himself for it - well he is coming to terms with the honouring of himself - it will take a while yet.
as he is worrying himself about you, arthunter888.

what can he do about that he wonders
and i guess he has found a way through me and others who are urging you to feel differently about his passing and the way he chose to go.
please think about the possibility that he did make a choice for what he thought was best for himself, if you can possibly take on board anything that has been said here - and it feels right, in some way. if not now, in a bit maybe, think about. let it sit with you like swilling round a good wine and trying to take in all its flavours and decide if it tastes good to you or not - take ur time.
our intentions are good.

ps everyone! i am not encouraging suicide! far from it. there are places you don't want to go to. this guy is a good being. he has gone home and the beings he went back to were welcoming him and ready to receive him. at the appointed time. there was a place made ready and welcome for him. he had done his good work.

love

 

[Jabberwocky]

Very sorry for your loss. Suicide shocks and devastates by my experience, even when it is someone not as close as you were to your uncle.

I have a friend who had his father commit suicide, followed by a fiance a few years later, then a brother a decade and a half later.
He has gotten a lot of support through a suicide survivors group. In TDS you are going to get real support that is sincere and heartfelt, but if a group is available in your area that is for suicide survivor issues I'd really recommend you give it a try even if you do are that much of a joiner or a social person.

I agree with the above suggestion that you not spend a lot of energy on considering motive or what ifs. Even in far less somber situations engaging scenarios and trying to ascertain motivations can be very draining and use up our mental reserves. Truth is suicide survivors never find answers that give satisfaction or relief ime.

My best wishes to you. Though this sort of loss will always be sore and tender, the loss becomes less intense while life fills up with new situations and people. Its the way of things for grief to decrease and things to get better. One of the impediments to overcoming grief can be feeling we owe the deceased more grief or a greater pause in our lives. Reality is that we owe those passed on to engage and enjoy life in my opinion.


The particularly hard thing with suicide bereavement is our anger and resentment followed by repressing our feelings along those lines. Repressing some of our bad feelings about the decedent's choice to die can complicate our grief a great deal, which brings me back to the recommendation to get support from other suicide survivors if possible.

 

[arthunter888]

I have received more closure than originally. I went with family to visit his apartment recently. It was a complete mess. There was clutter everywhere. Neglect, broken appliances still laying around, etc. There were also letters to him (some with money) from a week before death that were not opened, as if he saw no point-- in anticipation.

Because of these signs, my family thinks strongly that his will to live had been steadily deteriorating, maybe for months. At some point, maybe a few days to weeks in advance, he planned this decision. I am more at ease that it was probably not impulsive.

Instead of the combined elements that make a sudden terrible day influencing a rash decision, we know that he thought this through and intended for this to happen. I would still like to know what went on in his life recently, but in the end I can accept this as his intention. I also learned he failed a suicide when 18, so maybe his mental illness made him predisposed to it.

 

[n3ophy7e]

I'm so glad you've received a bit of closure arthunter. Hopefully with time it will continue to get easier
How is the rest of your family coping?