Hi, I have been on here before I have been on Subutex at about 20 years A year ago swoop to Espranor There cheaper Any way 16mil Down to 4mil I have not taken street drugs for many years I don't even feel the need at all I am 53 this year It gets too much to keep going through But I have been stuck on Subutex all these years now on Espranor I have tried many times to get off them But only done it when I was younger And the last 3 or 4 times I have failed But this time I know its a must As I am getting too old for this But I have found it so hard to get down to 4mil once a day As i always took any doctors drug twice aday Big mistake I just have no energy I have been on 4mil for a month now And really took my time in dropping off them really slow And still no energy I hope every day I will get a boost in the morning But nothing And through Working to get down to 4mil I have become reclusive All I do is what I need to do Then stay in every day And I am ok with this As I did also get off 40mil of diazepam Down to 10mils And I have stayed on 10mil That was a killer But I am stable now on 10mil Well I take 8mil a day in 2mils a time But I just wanted to know Will I get more energy I suppose the answer is to keep going And my boody will adjust Its got to As if I was new to this drug 4mil would blow my head off and make me ill Is there any supplements to give me a pick up each day If any one has had similar problems And knows what I could take I would be very grateful Just drop me a reply ((? And never trust a man who licks the pipe Him teeth from this granny mother bother and this wife?)) Any way replys welcome Thanks peoples for reading..????advice needed......
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Bupe Subutex/Espranor
- Thread starter radish187
- Start date
HI I thanks for reply No I am not withdrawing I just never feel i have much energy in the morning Like when your on say 8mil subutex Y
Hi since I have dropped from 6mil to 4mil about 6 weeks ago And I just have no energy ? Thanks for the reply
Fuck me I will be dead before you get a chat in here 8( Hello radish187 How are you today I am ok having a chat with my self again Oh no conrad I mean radish187 can I join in No fuck off I like chatting to my self Not with anyone, clean by Xmas yippy or whippy or hippy But Clean 2MIL Left 20 years hell I will have a chat with myself when I am on 1mil soon Good chat Speak to my self soon bye conrad I mean radish 187 the movie bye 
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KS78
Bluelighter
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Hi, radish187. This sometimes happens when there are lots of new threads posted.
So, are you still at 4 mgs or did you reduce your dose more? The low energy is a big issue when one starts tapering their dose. I find that this problem happens both when the opiate/ opioid is tapered slowly or fast. It's more intense when the dose is dropped rapidly but when you do it really slow, like you, it keeps on dragging for a long time.
In my experience, this issue only resolves when you are totally opiate/opioid free for a considerable amount of time. It's not a good harm reduction practice but a low amount of stimulant usually solves this problem efficiently.
So the faster you get off your medication, the faster you can start investing your time to get your energy level up.
Good luck, stay safe.
So, are you still at 4 mgs or did you reduce your dose more? The low energy is a big issue when one starts tapering their dose. I find that this problem happens both when the opiate/ opioid is tapered slowly or fast. It's more intense when the dose is dropped rapidly but when you do it really slow, like you, it keeps on dragging for a long time.
In my experience, this issue only resolves when you are totally opiate/opioid free for a considerable amount of time. It's not a good harm reduction practice but a low amount of stimulant usually solves this problem efficiently.
So the faster you get off your medication, the faster you can start investing your time to get your energy level up.
Good luck, stay safe.
Hi thanks for the reply, yes I am on 2 mils now from 4mil But like you say it drags on But I need to do it this way As I have tried to rush in the past and I always fail Give me a name of a stimulant which you know is pretty good If you don't mind Are you just a member or more involved in here? Even this chat has picked up my spirits Because it's been dragging on so hard It makes you feel like giving up sometimes But this is my last chance And I will not stop till I am clean I can not carry on like this Thanks for the boost reply Some times it just goes on for so long I have been doing this 6 or 8 months lost time can't even remember anymore But it never ends the up and downs I am stable on 2mil It took time to settle down I dropped a bit fast but I am doing it my self On my own terms so I can drop when I like It's safety net Which is really dumb Anyway 100% boost for the day my friend Thank you.
KS78
Bluelighter
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- Apr 9, 2008
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I'm just a member. I could advise Ritalin since it's not as euphoric as some others but it could give you some extra boost if you need it. I'm sure others on the board could give better advise though; I don't have any medical background, I'm just giving this advise according to my experience.
Maybe I quick dose off kratom to finish I used it before and I took to much Was hooked on the shit But I will be very careful this time I will go to 0.4 and stop by Xmas Cheers I will look at Ritalin Oh you can not just buy it It's for ADHD and other things Well i will buy kratom I think Just a bit for a week I will probably not feel much the way I am going anyway No energy though What yiour problem then Which poison you on or off??
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Alright Radish I'm in the same boat as you to a degree. I've just gone down to 2mls and my prescriber will only give me 2ml for 12week. I have also been told there won't be any .4 or .2 it's just straight off with some symptomatic relief. As I've only been on 2ml for about a week I think in another couple of weeks I shall just take half a tablet and a week or so later just a quarter of a tablet for a week or so then end it. My clinic says that I will get a few diazepam like I should be grateful. From past experience diazepam only cause me more drama. Don't get me wrong I'm not expecting them to give me loads of them.
I do feel like I'm getting back to normal as I've started stretching every day prior to that it seemed like I never stretched unless I was withdrawing.
I have heard about kratom maybe I might give it a try. Tbf I can't do anything in moderation so I'm still undecided. It's the not sleeping what I'm dreading.
Good luck with it all thou, it might not be bad it's my own fear that keeps me locked in.
Hey I am on 4 0.4s now for 8 days as I went to two mil for a bit Well it most of been over 2mil
Hey my threads are hard to read It might be spelling But I understand Them So I have ever been on Subutex ??????? reply when you see this.
I've have had it with this taper I have been cutting up this Espranor I had to cut 8mils up there a smeltsThey It goes on the tongue Not under I was around 1 mil But I went back to 2mil as I got to ill all the time Then I ask the doctors to put me on 4 0.4s of Subutex The swoop has been nasty and I feel ill every evening Just crappy all the time No motivation in me at all everything is hard to do I been like this and its really getting me down now Will I ever get stable on 4 0.4s Because it's taking its time and pissing me off I feel like giving up I ant going to though But it just taper feel ill goes on forever It really is wearing thin now Where are you now Ozzy any good have you stopped Because jumping off 2mil Is really hard for most Hit me back with am update my friend
Yes mate it's a ball ache for sure. Are u in UK?? I finish my espranor tomorrow and for the past 3 weeks I started cutting a 2ml in half then after just over a week I cut them into 4 so it's like taking .5ml. I had to do it that way as they won't switch you from 2ml of espranor to .4ml or .2ml of bupe or temgesic but tomorrow I finish.
I don't get my meds from my Dr it's from a drug clinic and they say I'll get a rattle pack. Some basic stuff and a few diazepam but I can imagine it won't be many.
To be fair it's not been bad reducing I've had the odd restless sleep and feel a bit cold but it's not unbearable. Hang in there mate don't rush it do what's best for you.
Let me know how you get on.
I don't get my meds from my Dr it's from a drug clinic and they say I'll get a rattle pack. Some basic stuff and a few diazepam but I can imagine it won't be many.
To be fair it's not been bad reducing I've had the odd restless sleep and feel a bit cold but it's not unbearable. Hang in there mate don't rush it do what's best for you.
Let me know how you get on.
Also forgot to say that I was on subutex then was put on 15mls of methadone then switched to 4ml of espranor. I originally started my reduction from 12mls of subutex then for past 18month down to where I am now
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Hey there OP! I'm sorry to hear that you're doing so badly. It is a hard truth that withdrawal from most any drug can be physically and psychologically devastating, but that doesn't mean you can't handle it. You've already come so far and you deserve a major pat on the back for what you've managed to accomplish in reducing your dosages. Both of these drugs have an acute phase, if you will, of withdrawal. In turn there is a chronic phase and keep in mind this is my own definition and terminology.
Perhaps the Benzo taper caused severe panic, while the Bupe reduction produced all of the hallmarks of Opioid withdrawal in a short or rather acute manner. This part is undeniably difficult, but the chronic symptoms that tend to linger for an extended period of time can really fuck your life up. I know from experience with Methadone w/d. It's really shitty for 1-2 weeks, but depending upon how long you're on it, the symptoms can linger for months.
I know this is not particularly encouraging, but I would rather give you the straight dope over some sugar-coated fantasy. As you had mentioned, we will need to find some ways of mitigating these pesky symptoms and hopefully returning you to semi-functionality.
First off, what drugs have you tried? I will start by suggesting a similar cocktail to what I put out there for anyone. We will go from there. Sound good?
Gabapentin (Neurontin); Pregabalin (Lyrica) These drugs are my primary crutch when withdrawing from Opioids. They are truly a panacea for those that it works for. The relief provided covers both mental and physical relief. HMU if you would like to discuss further as I only have limited time right now.
Clonidine (Catapres) Medication for lowering blood pressure. Great at doing that, but also great at reducing physical effects of anxiety and helping to get you to sleep
Cannabis Appetite stimulation, sleep induction, stress relief etc. If Cannabis works for you, then go all out.
Avoid substances like Alcohol, as they will not help you in any meaningful way. You're doing a great job, keep it up brotha!
Perhaps the Benzo taper caused severe panic, while the Bupe reduction produced all of the hallmarks of Opioid withdrawal in a short or rather acute manner. This part is undeniably difficult, but the chronic symptoms that tend to linger for an extended period of time can really fuck your life up. I know from experience with Methadone w/d. It's really shitty for 1-2 weeks, but depending upon how long you're on it, the symptoms can linger for months.
I know this is not particularly encouraging, but I would rather give you the straight dope over some sugar-coated fantasy. As you had mentioned, we will need to find some ways of mitigating these pesky symptoms and hopefully returning you to semi-functionality.
First off, what drugs have you tried? I will start by suggesting a similar cocktail to what I put out there for anyone. We will go from there. Sound good?
Gabapentin (Neurontin); Pregabalin (Lyrica) These drugs are my primary crutch when withdrawing from Opioids. They are truly a panacea for those that it works for. The relief provided covers both mental and physical relief. HMU if you would like to discuss further as I only have limited time right now.
Clonidine (Catapres) Medication for lowering blood pressure. Great at doing that, but also great at reducing physical effects of anxiety and helping to get you to sleep
Cannabis Appetite stimulation, sleep induction, stress relief etc. If Cannabis works for you, then go all out.
Avoid substances like Alcohol, as they will not help you in any meaningful way. You're doing a great job, keep it up brotha!
Hi I am in the Uk Conrad here grew up in wolves I am stable now on 4,0.4s 2 weeks it took
Hey glad your ok ozzy I have been on this crap 20 years I was really bad on the brown and white a beast, Started after the rave days and just carried on It started with the crack after clubbing Then a few lines of brown to come down Then on and on speedball heaven after years of that Then ended in hospital heart infection pneumonia and pleurisy nearly died a long time ago though I was making a shit load of money back then This crap has controlled my life 20 years I have done loads of rattles in jail But that was when I was younger I am past that now Change my life turned it around big time But as I got older I got scared I needed to get rid of this crap in my life So I am now on 4mil of diazepam and 4,0.4s of Subutex The swoop from espranor is not nice back to Subutex even on low dose Even though its the same kind of drug bupe But delivered to the body different you cant just swoop and feel nothing Thats why I was bitching up there Because I swopped Thought it would be fine BiG shock to the body I was really ill first 10 days back on Subutex and you would not think this could happen as its the same drug Anyway you clean now ? What about The CBD OIL any good I bought some from the heath shop Cooking oil it was like rubbish put it in the bin But I hear about good stuff CBD oil Had Kartom Got hooked on the stuff Then had to go back on the Subutex Must be careful on that shit also Ozzy cutting up them espranor you can not get the correct dose Even if you cut them perfect Because they have drops of bupe and they never are even on them melts Let me know how your doing if you made it and to the moderator Thank for your input dude much appreciated I can get Pregabalin (Lyrica) my son get 300 mils capsules and fentanyl patches 50 mil patches I have 20 in the fridge here now He left here Will not be overdosing on those My son lost the use of this arm motorbike sad to watch him in pain I am having him here for Xmas Them Pregabalin (Lyrica) you got to be careful on those I took some before what haven't I took
anyway they do take the rattle off But I ant getting on those things My sleep is great as I take 2mil diazpam morning and 2mil before bed But I know when I stop them it will get really bad Right I am off hope everyone is good here Ozzy hope your free Let us Know Be strong
Thanks to everyone all support and chats help Not just me But its cool to get support and support each other in this time of need Thanks Lowell, Massachusetts moderator Back soon with a fresh update anyone else join in We only bite a bit 
Yes mate my story of getting into gear n white same as yours brother. Mate I can see your battles with it all and I totally hear you mate.
This is day 3 and tbf I bought 5 300ml pg and 10 snide vallies. Oh and because 2 weeks ago I took one moggie I failed a piss test at my prescriber they said they ain't givin me a rattle pack. Bro I said I've jumped threw your hoops swallowed my k**b when I've had to and then get totally jogged on. But to be fair I feel brand new and my little stockpile I bought has also gone. I hear the 3day is when it kicks in proper I can't see it mate.
You don't need me to tell you how to suck eggs bro but careful with them patches cos u know if you do your rattle they will either prolong it or you'll keep setting the reset button.
Go for it bro I can tell by your posts that you have had enough of all the bollocks, going to chemist going to get script.
Take it easy bro and I'll post u couple of days see how this little rattle turns out
This is day 3 and tbf I bought 5 300ml pg and 10 snide vallies. Oh and because 2 weeks ago I took one moggie I failed a piss test at my prescriber they said they ain't givin me a rattle pack. Bro I said I've jumped threw your hoops swallowed my k**b when I've had to and then get totally jogged on. But to be fair I feel brand new and my little stockpile I bought has also gone. I hear the 3day is when it kicks in proper I can't see it mate.
You don't need me to tell you how to suck eggs bro but careful with them patches cos u know if you do your rattle they will either prolong it or you'll keep setting the reset button.
Go for it bro I can tell by your posts that you have had enough of all the bollocks, going to chemist going to get script.
Take it easy bro and I'll post u couple of days see how this little rattle turns out
Alright Conrad hope all is well. It's now been 3 weeks since last dose and feel brand new it's been a few years since I last did a detox so even thou it wasn't really bad it felt it at the time. Only problems now is sleeping but I'm sleeping every night now. Getting off to sleep late waking up early but apart from that it's been ok mateHi I am in the Uk Conrad here grew up in wolves I am stable now on 4,0.4s 2 weeks it took
I hope all is good with u to be fair those fentanyl patches would probably press the reset button mate worse than coming off espranor.
I've started doing a bit of voluntary work one day a week. I can do a few courses and learn a bit it's on a building project. It's ok I mainly need to do it for a reference I've got more form than Frankie dettori.
Take it easy bro let me know how it goes for you..
Well done Ozzy Mate your free Good for you I am on half of a 0.4 yes crazy low dose But I will go to a quarter of a 0.4 and taper my way out of jail 
Then stop I ant feeling like shit for weeks I have dragged it out and it might not be the right way to do it but I was worried I would get sick As I have jumped off at 2mils many times and failed Taper Taper Taper I have tapered my way out of my problem almost any way if you see this message I leave another When I am off it COMPLETELY Which will be very soon Only on 2mil of valium now also from 40mil That's been hard also But really stable on 2mil Only take it at night for sleep and will stop that after the Subutex Well you must be great now Far play brother I will report back very soon Have a great NEW LIFE OZZY
Then stop I ant feeling like shit for weeks I have dragged it out and it might not be the right way to do it but I was worried I would get sick As I have jumped off at 2mils many times and failed Taper Taper Taper I have tapered my way out of my problem almost any way if you see this message I leave another When I am off it COMPLETELY Which will be very soon Only on 2mil of valium now also from 40mil That's been hard also But really stable on 2mil Only take it at night for sleep and will stop that after the Subutex Well you must be great now Far play brother I will report back very soon Have a great NEW LIFE OZZYBro that is great news your doing well and good to see your using your head..Well done Ozzy Mate your free Good for you I am on half of a 0.4 yes crazy low dose But I will go to a quarter of a 0.4 and taper my way out of jail
Things here are good still straight not even had a dabble...
Sounds like everything as far a detox goes couldn't be going better even down to 2 ml of val.
More people should be jumping on this thread mate. A few words from somebody who knows what its like helped me out no end as i said b4 maybe ive had to drop eveyone out.. ive been doing voluntary work 2days a week renovating properties for this charity that then rehouses people who aren't so fortunate... Its ok the end result is good
Keep it going mate and yes next time i hear from you it should be even better news..
Take it easy bro