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substrate: rye or rye flour?

gib65

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
58
Hello,

I'm following along in this recipe for cultivating mushrooms:

http://mushplanet.com/cultivation_manual/psilocybe-cubensis-rye.html

It prescribes a recipe for making the substrate out of rye. I went to the grocery store tonight looking for rye. I found rye flour:

rye flour.jpg


^ Is this what they're talking about? Will this do?
 
No, they mean rye berries typically: the whole grain; perhaps bought on a farmer's market?
And such grains by the way you should soak overnight in a bucket of water first before sterilizing to germinate endospores which are otherwise hard to kill by boiling. The fact that this is missing from this tek is not a good sign. Maybe go over to the Shroomery website and browse various of their teks.

Using something like the rye flour should be possible though but it would be a whole different 'tek', namely pretty much PF tek with vermiculite for an airy substrate and the rye flour to substitute for brown rice flour. The reason you want these brown/dark flours is because they use the whole grains and the husks (--> bran etc) are high in nutrients like protein while the main part of the [white] grain itself contains mostly carbohydrates for energetic value.
You can't just use any flour without the vermiculite though - with water flour just makes a paste and your substrate must be airy. Using whole grain berries is airy, there is plenty air in between them already. With flour the vermiculite you add which is an inert mineral of sorts gives it structure and surface area (lots of cavities).

So, conditions for the substrate are: it must contain an energy source, you also want nutrients like protein / amino acids / trace elements such as found in many vitamin pills (though don't add those lol) and preferably a source of sulfate among a few other things. The latter is usually not added by beginners as you can get away with just having those nutrients in other ingredients to some extent (like just the whole grain berries). But, sometimes things like bran, spent coffee grounds or gypsum are added depending on the substrate.
The substrate must also contain enough water (by sterilizing whole grains in water or adding enough to other substrate types until you have what is called field capacity). And the substrate must also be airy.

Ideally learn so you understand why everything is used and done the way it's done in these teks (they share commonalities if you get that)..

About your tek: you could find rye berries elsewhere like a farmer's market or find vermiculite at perhaps also that farmer's market or garden center and go the PF tek which makes cakes (clumped together mycelium) instead of colonized grains. I have grown on certain bird seed mixes but you shouldn't just use any seed mix - avoid sunflower seeds and make sure they are relatively big seeds, maybe check online or ask first before you go in that direction.

An advantage of grains is that you can loosen them up even if colonized, a PF style cake must be colonized inside untapered jars (no 'shoulder' on the jars but lids as wide as any other part of the jar), otherwise you can't get it out of the jar when it has clumped up. The grains should be spawned to bulk substrate but this is typically not for the total beginner.
An advantage of cakes is that once colonized they are less sensitive to contamination since they are already a clumped and closed unit that is good to go for fruiting.

What kind of jars / containers do you have? Or filter bags? etc And what kind of fruiting chamber? I take it you are a total beginner? The equipment you have and the plan you have do matter for choosing your substrate.
Let me know and i'll try to help.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the reply, Solipsis,

I remember a while back preparing a substrate made from vermiculite and soil. It produced a decent yield of mushrooms. The closest thing I found to that recipe on the net is this: http://www.fungifun.org/English/Pftek. <-- I could do that. I have *some* experience with vermiculite recipes, none with rye. Since my experience with vermiculite + soil was a success, that would be the ideal recipe. I would know exactly what I'm looking for. Do you know of any online walkthrough that include that?
 
Not really, why include the soil? You already have vermiculite for the structure and no need for anything like casing so you don't need the soil and can just do the PF tek but with brown rye flour if you can't find brown rice flour (honestly the rye flour should be fine, it's just not very standard). You can just do the "dunk and roll" as a sort of casing. Not sure where you got the idea for soil but that seems more appropriate for very particular other teks like casing for spawning to bulk maybe although I would use coco coir or something for that.

The reason why PF tek would be fine for you also is because it is suited for relative beginners/novices, using rye berries to spawn to bulk is one of the next steps but it is probably best if you read and learn so much from the Shroomery website (their pages PLUS the forum) that you feel like you can make that step up.

Putting in particular ingredients in the substrate you are experienced with doesn't really help so you don't exactly have to copy what you have done in the past. It's other aspects of teks like the fact that PF tek makes cakes vs. a monotub full of bulk substrate and such differences between the teks that matter, not the ingredients. The ingredients you just buy and mix in the right proportions. No skill or risk there.

I do assume you made cakes in the past with that vermiculite? What was present as actual nutrient for the mushrooms? Compost has nutrients but really not much energy I think, so all of that seems far from ideal. You need to use nutrient-rich flour instead of soil. I'm wondering what you used to get the mycelium to colonize..
 
Unless you can't find it elsewhere that seems like a waste. I mean not bad to stimulate organic health food stores, but overkill to give mushrooms organic food when you can also grow them on garbage to some extent.

Brown rice flour can indeed be hard to find 'normally' though. Not sure where the TS found that rye flour but best to just use whatever whole grain flour you can find that is not overpriced for being organic.
 
Ok, I caved and bought the brown rice flour. It was so long ago that I cultivated mushrooms with the vermiculite and soil, I can't remember the details. The brown rice flour should do. Thanks for educating me, Solipsis.
 
I inoculated a small jar earlier this week with p. Cubensis spores. Simply followed PF TEK with vermiculite and brown rice flour. Not sure I used enough of the spore print though :(
 
What kind of amounts of everything are we talking? What did you do :)
 
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