hey guys i am not prescribed suboxone nor do i take it often, last time prob a few months ago n not regularly ...ive been clean (mostly) from dope almost 2 months now i used once last week knowing i would not b able to get anymore of it...i felt less thaan normal for a few days after , no w/d's tho thankfully...my question is if i just do a couple 2,3,4 bags tonight how much mg of sub would b sufficient to take in the morning n next day to avoid any shittyness at all. thanks for all comments in advance.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Heroin subs
- Thread starter poloblue
- Start date
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
take less than 2mg of suboxone and it will hold you all day (and for the next day as well in all likelihood).
after doing just 2-4, even 3-6 bags, you have no real business taking any more than 4-8mg (and even that is overkill).
so yea, take 1 to 2mg of suboxone (I'd just say 2mg to be safe) to avoid any and all shitiness. tbh after a once time binge on dope though, I never had any noticable w/d as you seem to imply you'll have.
after doing just 2-4, even 3-6 bags, you have no real business taking any more than 4-8mg (and even that is overkill).
so yea, take 1 to 2mg of suboxone (I'd just say 2mg to be safe) to avoid any and all shitiness. tbh after a once time binge on dope though, I never had any noticable w/d as you seem to imply you'll have.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Not any I could imagine... And there is no way 2mg is not enough for a 2-4 bag one time binge. No way in hell.
ech0s85
Bluelighter
dude if you havent been using you should have like no tolerance and .5mg of sub should be more than enough
Missykins
Bluelighter
OP, what makes you think you need Suboxone? You're not a regular user of heroin at the moment, therefore, you shouldn't experience any symptoms of withdrawal after single episode of use, and you haven't in the recent past. It doesn't sound like you have a reason to use it.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
I am tempted to agree with you, but I have known the random user that will suffer mild-moderate acute w/d symptoms after only a moderate one time binge (not having much if any tolerance beforehand). So, certainly, suboxone will help some people chip more than others. Most though seem to have no business using it as such though.
Well, if he's/she's taking it sublingual much less than 2mg will actually make it into his/her body.
TheMiddleWay
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2011
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Since you're not suffering acute withdrawal, you're suffering from the come down blahs, you really couldn't need to take a high dose MT drug as mentioned. You should try to suck it up, if you must take 250 mcg ( .25 mg) and titerate upwards until relief (not a high) is felt. You shouldn't need more than 1mg.
Doesn't seen to make sense in the slightest, but what does worse off mean? Worse withdrawals from too low a dose to maintain? If you don't take enough you will suffer withdrawal (that is if you are opioid dependent).
Doesn't seen to make sense in the slightest, but what does worse off mean? Worse withdrawals from too low a dose to maintain? If you don't take enough you will suffer withdrawal (that is if you are opioid dependent).
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Well, even without being dependent, a sort of PMS like depression is felt by some users who have had long periods of abstinence and then binge once in a while (without using in between binges), so in terms of the day after depression bupe might be worthwhile.
the consensus is dead on regardless: keep it low.
the consensus is dead on regardless: keep it low.
Znegative
Bluelight Crew
Yeah. What I would do is to see how you feel the day after your little binge, then take .5 mg to start with, if you feel slightly at ease. I wouldn't go over 1mg the first day, and if you take it the second day, drop to .5 mg, and then quit. Buprenorphine is still an opioid (even if it's a partial agonist) so you don't want to take it more than two days after a few days of using smack without a habit, because then you might actually end up with one.
TheMiddleWay
Bluelighter
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I meant to feel full withdrawal symptoms you need to be dependent. I agree with you about this "not quite withdrawal, withdrawal." I don't get it, at least no mood changes. If anything I feel fatigued until full withdrawal,, which starts ruth leg pain.
My friend notices it intensely (not dependent, slight tolerance) manifesting as: feeling fatigue, mild depression, more unstable mood behavior (quick to anger), laziness, procrastination. And this is induced by single large doses with weeks inbetween. Either I'm out of tune with myself (don't think so) or I only get fatigue.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Yup, I mean, I know for a fact I never had such an issue, but I can think of one or two winy junkies I've known who "HAD" to have something like bupe after they used...
I think that what you may be experiencing is more of an "opiate hangover" than it is withdrawal. You could try to save a bag of heroin for the next day, and that could take care of that. Then you can save the suboxone for the following day if you really think/feel you need it.
Titus
Bluelighter
Up until a couple of months ago I used a couple of grams of dope on average over like a 2 day period pretty much every week. Before that i used more but never had a steady habit. The longest I have used dope consecutively was probably like 7-8 days and back then I would always just cold kick. I doubt it was bad for me compared to ppl with steady habits going weeks, months, years. Doubt it was even close. Pretty much felt like shit for a few days, stayed in bed like the flu but no vomiting or heavy shaking or anything like that.
Money eventually became an issue, hense my decreased frequency of use to like 2 days a week. Anyway.... for the past couple of months I have been using suboxone, recently switching to subutex, and very infrequently use dope (like 1x/month).
Now to my point. IMO (and I'm guessing there is some science to back this up) opiates provide psychological/brain chemistry benfits to users. We all know it kills pain. We all know it makes you feel good. I have no specific knowledge around the brain chemistry, dopamine, whatever takes place when people put opiates in their bodies.
But what I DO know, at least in my situation, is that my functioning has greatly improved since I have been using suboxone and now subutex on a daily basis. Kind of like how people with anxiety disorders feel better when they are on a benzo. I've been taking like 4mg daily along with like 1/2 mg of klonopin daily as well. I used to take 3 anti-depressants a mood stabilizer, and clonodine (sp?). I have PTSD, depression (or USED to have that). Since I abused alcohol 20-25 yrs ago my various primary care dr's and various psychiatrists over the years have not wanted to prescribe me a benzo (pretty sure it's a rule of thumb they go by with anyone who has a history of alcohol abuse). I was 'in recovery' and abstinent for like 10 years and did a lot of work on myself 12 steps, other personal growth type stuff, etc and for the past 7-8 years have been a light social drinker. Like 1-3 drinks less than 10 times a year. I also had a serious run with coke. Figured my dr's woudn't believe/understand my transition from abstinence from alcohol to light social drinker so didn't tell them and fronted like I still maintained abstinance.
At one point I saw a neurologist (my spelling sucks ass, I know, sorry) who did a thorough exam on me including brain scan and recommended I take klonopin for some rem sleep disorder I have. Might be connected to the PTSD, who knows. But my psychiatrist blew off this recommendation and gave me clonodine instead.
Now I see no psychiatrist and when I take the klonopin I sleep without nightmares or without acting out physically while in rem sleep, doing crap like taking swings and knocking over lamps, jumping up in reaction to a nightmare. when I take xanax it helps but not like the klonopin.
I feel that the suboxone/subutex helps me in a similar fashion. I wake up and feel good. I feel NORMAL. My functioning in several area's of my life have improved dramatically compared to when I was in recovery and abstinant, in recovery and abstinant and on one or more anti-depressants, being a light social drinker and on one or more anti depressants and a mood stabilizer, etc, etc.
I am functioning better than I have in my entire life. I do ocasionally 'get high' with dope but this is like 1x/month now. So for myself, I experience great benfits from being on subutex/suboxone, I'm self-prescribing so 'technically' abusing but I care about the quality of my life and it's tremendously better than it ever has been. My wife is amased. She was very concerned when I went off my 'psych' meds even though my functioning sucked and I was having lots of difficulty at work and other life areas such as social, etc, etc, etc. Since she is so anti-drug I do not tell her what I am doing, although she knows I have a 'nervous' problem and doesn't have a problem with me taking an anti anxiety med and notices the improvements they provide me. I took it as a PRN off the books so to speak with her approval while on the anti-depressants, etc.
Now she keeps asking 'are you sure your not taking anything' because she knows I'm not seeing a dr to get meds and has seen huge improvements over and above those I got from the benzo while both on anti depressants and while off them.
So color me crazy if you want or whatever but taking a maintenance dose of subutex and a maintenance dose of klonopin (or xanax when I can't get ahold of klonopin) has been like a miracle for me! I have zero interest myself in weaning off the subutex. I don't know if the particular ammt I take is of particular importance, I started with 8mg and have settled in at around 4mg/day in the am. Eventually I will look into the brain chemistry of low dose opiates, in particular subutex.
But it seems like my situation and use of it is kind of uncommon. Most ppl seem to wind up on it after steady addiction to another opiate and either stay on it or wean off it, either quickly or slowly. I'm taking it to treat my psychological/psychiatric/mental/emotional defects caused by severe childhood trauma. And it's helping me so friggin much I can not believe it. I've tossed around the notion of going back to my last psychiatrist and telling her what I am taking (caffiene and nicotine too....which also impact brain chemistry and there is evidence that they help with stuff like memory, focus, etc) and putting it on the table. This is what I'm doing and these are the improvements I've noticed. I have every intension of continuing unless you can offer me an alternative(s) that work BETTER than what I'm doing now. I'm willing to trying an alternative to one or more of these, if they work better then great, I'll continue. If not I will go back to what is working better for me than any combo of meds have worked for me in the past 20 years.
I know my post didn't answer the OP's question but felt like the info may provide insight into possible benefits of taking something like suboxone for something other than to stave off withdrawl symptoms which some of the replies talked about and also provides some perspective into the use of suboxone to 'get rid of the shitty feelings' on a permanent basis which is what I have had basically my entire friggin life!
To the OP: if you've read this far lol.... I can't advise on a particular dose for you to have suboxone do what you want it to do for you. But through experimentation I've found a dose for me to treat my 'shitty' feelings that I had the day after using dope, or before I ever used dope or even knew what it was. I've been self medicating since the age of 13 and am in my mid-40's. Now, finally, through trial and error (believe me I've had more than my share of 'errors' lol) both by myself and with the help of various professionals I've found a combo that works great for me. I hope you and everyone else finds solutions that work for them in life be they pharmacutical or other or a combo of whatever works.
Peace,
Titus
Money eventually became an issue, hense my decreased frequency of use to like 2 days a week. Anyway.... for the past couple of months I have been using suboxone, recently switching to subutex, and very infrequently use dope (like 1x/month).
Now to my point. IMO (and I'm guessing there is some science to back this up) opiates provide psychological/brain chemistry benfits to users. We all know it kills pain. We all know it makes you feel good. I have no specific knowledge around the brain chemistry, dopamine, whatever takes place when people put opiates in their bodies.
But what I DO know, at least in my situation, is that my functioning has greatly improved since I have been using suboxone and now subutex on a daily basis. Kind of like how people with anxiety disorders feel better when they are on a benzo. I've been taking like 4mg daily along with like 1/2 mg of klonopin daily as well. I used to take 3 anti-depressants a mood stabilizer, and clonodine (sp?). I have PTSD, depression (or USED to have that). Since I abused alcohol 20-25 yrs ago my various primary care dr's and various psychiatrists over the years have not wanted to prescribe me a benzo (pretty sure it's a rule of thumb they go by with anyone who has a history of alcohol abuse). I was 'in recovery' and abstinent for like 10 years and did a lot of work on myself 12 steps, other personal growth type stuff, etc and for the past 7-8 years have been a light social drinker. Like 1-3 drinks less than 10 times a year. I also had a serious run with coke. Figured my dr's woudn't believe/understand my transition from abstinence from alcohol to light social drinker so didn't tell them and fronted like I still maintained abstinance.
At one point I saw a neurologist (my spelling sucks ass, I know, sorry) who did a thorough exam on me including brain scan and recommended I take klonopin for some rem sleep disorder I have. Might be connected to the PTSD, who knows. But my psychiatrist blew off this recommendation and gave me clonodine instead.
Now I see no psychiatrist and when I take the klonopin I sleep without nightmares or without acting out physically while in rem sleep, doing crap like taking swings and knocking over lamps, jumping up in reaction to a nightmare. when I take xanax it helps but not like the klonopin.
I feel that the suboxone/subutex helps me in a similar fashion. I wake up and feel good. I feel NORMAL. My functioning in several area's of my life have improved dramatically compared to when I was in recovery and abstinant, in recovery and abstinant and on one or more anti-depressants, being a light social drinker and on one or more anti depressants and a mood stabilizer, etc, etc.
I am functioning better than I have in my entire life. I do ocasionally 'get high' with dope but this is like 1x/month now. So for myself, I experience great benfits from being on subutex/suboxone, I'm self-prescribing so 'technically' abusing but I care about the quality of my life and it's tremendously better than it ever has been. My wife is amased. She was very concerned when I went off my 'psych' meds even though my functioning sucked and I was having lots of difficulty at work and other life areas such as social, etc, etc, etc. Since she is so anti-drug I do not tell her what I am doing, although she knows I have a 'nervous' problem and doesn't have a problem with me taking an anti anxiety med and notices the improvements they provide me. I took it as a PRN off the books so to speak with her approval while on the anti-depressants, etc.
Now she keeps asking 'are you sure your not taking anything' because she knows I'm not seeing a dr to get meds and has seen huge improvements over and above those I got from the benzo while both on anti depressants and while off them.
So color me crazy if you want or whatever but taking a maintenance dose of subutex and a maintenance dose of klonopin (or xanax when I can't get ahold of klonopin) has been like a miracle for me! I have zero interest myself in weaning off the subutex. I don't know if the particular ammt I take is of particular importance, I started with 8mg and have settled in at around 4mg/day in the am. Eventually I will look into the brain chemistry of low dose opiates, in particular subutex.
But it seems like my situation and use of it is kind of uncommon. Most ppl seem to wind up on it after steady addiction to another opiate and either stay on it or wean off it, either quickly or slowly. I'm taking it to treat my psychological/psychiatric/mental/emotional defects caused by severe childhood trauma. And it's helping me so friggin much I can not believe it. I've tossed around the notion of going back to my last psychiatrist and telling her what I am taking (caffiene and nicotine too....which also impact brain chemistry and there is evidence that they help with stuff like memory, focus, etc) and putting it on the table. This is what I'm doing and these are the improvements I've noticed. I have every intension of continuing unless you can offer me an alternative(s) that work BETTER than what I'm doing now. I'm willing to trying an alternative to one or more of these, if they work better then great, I'll continue. If not I will go back to what is working better for me than any combo of meds have worked for me in the past 20 years.
I know my post didn't answer the OP's question but felt like the info may provide insight into possible benefits of taking something like suboxone for something other than to stave off withdrawl symptoms which some of the replies talked about and also provides some perspective into the use of suboxone to 'get rid of the shitty feelings' on a permanent basis which is what I have had basically my entire friggin life!
To the OP: if you've read this far lol.... I can't advise on a particular dose for you to have suboxone do what you want it to do for you. But through experimentation I've found a dose for me to treat my 'shitty' feelings that I had the day after using dope, or before I ever used dope or even knew what it was. I've been self medicating since the age of 13 and am in my mid-40's. Now, finally, through trial and error (believe me I've had more than my share of 'errors' lol) both by myself and with the help of various professionals I've found a combo that works great for me. I hope you and everyone else finds solutions that work for them in life be they pharmacutical or other or a combo of whatever works.
Peace,
Titus
TheMiddleWay
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2011
- Messages
- 114
Better Alternative:
Go to a suboxone doctor and get your own prescription. This should simplify things. Tell your wife about discussion of buprenorphine as an antidepressant for you, and clonazepam with sleep and other symptoms. Contrast the similarity of physical dependence of antidepressants to buprenorphine, and the ability to taper both. Your wife it's anti-drug but didn't know that you were IVing heroin 7-8 days straight?
Go to a suboxone doctor and get your own prescription. This should simplify things. Tell your wife about discussion of buprenorphine as an antidepressant for you, and clonazepam with sleep and other symptoms. Contrast the similarity of physical dependence of antidepressants to buprenorphine, and the ability to taper both. Your wife it's anti-drug but didn't know that you were IVing heroin 7-8 days straight?
i also am taking suboxone - 2mgs/day, as prescribed -- and i have to agree with the anti-depressive benefits. over the past 15+ yrs i have been on and off many anti depressant drugs in all the 'classes' of them at one time or another - finally settles on zoloft bcuz it gave me 80-90% improvement with anxiety disorder/panic attacks - but still really never found anything that "worked" for me as far as depression... aside from opiates of course. until i started suboxone. i think it's just a matter of time before it becomes another 'off-label' script for depression. i could be wrong of course but i read more and more about people who find this to be true for themselves as well
sorry OP you thread got a little hijacked!
sorry OP you thread got a little hijacked!
thanks for your input guys i am most likely going to refrain from subs atleast for today since i am only experiencing some fatigue n altered mood n titus i did read all the way through but only cuz im masshole my self ha n i am glad u finally found something that works for you
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
^the OP DOES NOT NEED TO BE ON SUBOXONE MAINTENANCE!!!
arg I hate it when people recommend opioid replacement therapy to people for which it will only degrade the quality of their lives. yes, well intended, but read the f'ing posts first!
arg I say
#Titus yo spelling ain't thaaaat bad
arg I hate it when people recommend opioid replacement therapy to people for which it will only degrade the quality of their lives. yes, well intended, but read the f'ing posts first!
arg I say
#Titus yo spelling ain't thaaaat bad
paper planes
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2011
- Messages
- 400
i agree with whoever said that you should take just 1 mg and the next day just take .5 and you should be fine.. make sure you wait long enough after doing the dope so you dont push it out to fast