Suboxone Withdrawal Preparation Worries (low dose over few months).

[spellingmistarke]

Hi there,

I realise there are hundreds of suboxone threads, but I can't find anything that specifically targets my situation.

I apologise if this is bad form, but I'm quite frightened about what lies ahead and am unsure as to whether it's rational to do so.

So I was an IV Heroin user for a while, only about a year (smoked and snorted for a year prior to that).

I got through the Heroin withdrawals with the help of only weed, which was about a year and a half/two years ago. I had no idea suboxone existed.

After a few months, I relapsed for a day. I then started chipping, less than half a gram of H over 1-3 days, then I'd come to my senses for a month, then relapse again, etc...

I experienced awful aftermaths from each time I slipped, and then discovered suboxone.

I only used suboxone for two or three days after the relapse, then would be drug free for a while, then do the same thing. It was so helpful with those awful feelings that came in the days after relapsing.

About 6 weeks ago (maybe 7?), during the "two or three days" of suboxone use, a short (and lucrative) work contract came and I didn't want to rock the boat so I kept taking suboxone for a few more days. Those days lead to weeks. I've now been taking roughly 1mg of suboxone a day (IV - i know it's a stupid idea, but I can't change it now), and maybe once a week I'll take 4-6 mg for no apparent reason.

Anyway, now I'm starting a new job next week, and I'm still on 1mg suboxone. It doesn't feel like it's doing anything to me, but I've been too scared of withdrawals (purely from reading about it) to stop taking it.

Now to my question: In people's experience, will taking 1mg of suboxone (strips) via IV administration for 6/7 weeks lead to significant withdrawals? I'm prone to deep depression as it is, so I'm just trying to figure out the best plan to stop taking the stuff.

I know it's a low dose and a relatively short amount of time - but from what I read I should still be worried and have a good plan.

If anyone has any advice, or could clear anything up for me, that'd be awesome. I'm not getting them through an official program so don't have any professional support, but then again not many doctors Down Under seem to know anything about the drug anyway.

Thanks so much in advance, and sorry for the long-ish post.

Scared out of my wits,

Spelling Mistarke.

TL;DR - Suboxone 1mg IV every day for approximately 6 weeks. Planned to get off them before committing to stressful work but have just taken a challenging full time job, starting next week. Extremely worried about withdrawals as am prone to deep depression. Realise it's a comparatively small dose but people's horror stories have me desperate for clarification/advice. Thanks in advance.

 

[cj]

It's hard to say. You'll probably have some withdrawal for sure. The intensity? I honestly don't know. I think the most likely scenario is you feel shitty for a few weeks with insomnia. But probably not full blown withdrawal.

 

[spellingmistarke]

It's hard to say. You'll probably have some withdrawal for sure. The intensity? I honestly don't know. I think the most likely scenario is you feel shitty for a few weeks with insomnia. But probably not full blown withdrawal.

Thanks for the reply

 

[spellingmistarke]

Would still be great to get some other thoughts Really appreciate cj's response though!

 

[weekend addiction]

If it's possible try taking one mg every 36 hours for a week and then every 48 hours for a week. If your worried about depression you owe it to yourself to takee your time.if you have to quit right away a high dose of kava at night for the first week or some gabapentin or even marijuana should get you out the woods.if you don't have any of that at hand any sedative will help a bit even a double dose of NyQuil at night for insomnia will help you get back to normal. You'll e fine as long as you either space out the taper or get some sedatives/kkratm/ kava

 

[spellingmistarke]

If it's possible try taking one mg every 36 hours for a week and then every 48 hours for a week. If your worried about depression you owe it to yourself to takee your time.if you have to quit right away a high dose of kava at night for the first week or some gabapentin or even marijuana should get you out the woods.if you don't have any of that at hand any sedative will help a bit even a double dose of NyQuil at night for insomnia will help you get back to normal. You'll e fine as long as you either space out the taper or get some sedatives/kkratm/ kava

Thanks weekend addiction. That's probably a good idea - to try spacing out doses first.

We don't have Nyquil down here but we have a few things that might equal Nyquil so I'll look into it.

Gabapentin (and Lyrica, etc...) are prescription only and usually prescribed for chronic pain. I don't have chronic pain so I'd have to think of a way to get it prescribed. Not very likely. Pretty expensive by other means but maybe its worth me spending the money.

I've stocked up on 100gm of kratom, but that's also very expensive to buy as it's not available here.

But I'm going to try what you've said. Haven't taken my usual morning dose so will wait until either this evening or tomorrow morning, depending on how I'm feeling.

I really appreciate the suggestions.

 

[TravisBickle23]

I kicked cold turkey from a couple months of sublingually taking 1mg of suboxone. What CJ said was close to my experience....I felt kind of lousy and lethargic for a few weeks, my restless legs were noticeably worse, and sleep was tough. Definitely nothing like full blown heroin withdrawal though, just mainly feeling restless and uncomfortable at certain points in the day. I imagine it would be more difficult if I was IV'ing it, but I can't speak to that.
I would definitely suggest spacing out your doses over time like weekend addiction suggested, and then even take it a step further and start cutting those doses in half, then half of that, but gradually.
I've kicked higher doses of methadone with surprising ease, but I've personally found that with suboxone, I had to cut back much slower and lower if I was going to have any chance at escaping its grasp.
I hope this helps.

 

[spellingmistarke]

Gha

I kicked cold turkey from a couple months of sublingually taking 1mg of suboxone. What CJ said was close to my experience....I felt kind of lousy and lethargic for a few weeks, my restless legs were noticeably worse, and sleep was tough. Definitely nothing like full blown heroin withdrawal though, just mainly feeling restless and uncomfortable at certain points in the day. I imagine it would be more difficult if I was IV'ing it, but I can't speak to that.
I would definitely suggest spacing out your doses over time like weekend addiction suggested, and then even take it a step further and start cutting those doses in half, then half of that, but gradually.
I've kicked higher doses of methadone with surprising ease, but I've personally found that with suboxone, I had to cut back much slower and lower if I was going to have any chance at escaping its grasp.
I hope this helps.

Thanks so much and yes it does help. Hopefully if I space out my taper and go down to 0.25 over the next month, that’ll make withdrawal a lot less uncomfortable.
Very helpful, thank you.

 

[MysticChemistrick33]

Now first off Suboxone's active chemical, is a mu- opioid partial agonist(buprenorphine), with a significantly long half life, relatively, when compared to other chemical drug durations. It can last anywhere from 12-32 hrs, depending on dose to tolerance ratio. Now when you take less buprenorphine, it actually ends up metabolizing into more of its full agonist properties, of it's potent metabolite, norbuprenorphine. Now, the more buprenorphine you take in general, out competes the norbuprenorphine to the receptor site. So basically more is less, and since your taking less, and at the highest route of administration possible, thus intravenous, your tolerance could be more definitive, then you feel. For example, taking 8mgs sublingually, is that same as taking 4.2mgs buccally, and so on(in route of administration comparisons), that 1mg intravenously, could in fact be like taking 3mg sublingually, since sublingual administration's bioavailability is around 33% , or 1/3, as opposed to intravenously, which is 100% bioavailable, or around <9.3/10. By what your saying, you're usually taking relatively low doses, even though you had a high dope habit, depending on the quality, and style of heroin you were getting; your tolerance is not in to bad of a position. None the less, suboxone is 40x's more potent than morphine, equianalgesically speaking, in terms of concentrated potency, and dosage translation. So this means that, buprenorphine is potent at minute doses, 1mg is actually enough to make non-tolerant opiate brains, throw up, and dry heave heavily, as I've witness friends throw up on less than 0.9 of a mg. Obviously your tolerant so, you use it to get and maintain your well-being, in assurance that your "right", "fixed up", and just idealistically functionable, and operational, thus opioid maintenance. To me it's like a benzodiazepine prescription method perspective, telling your self, "only take it when you really need it!", "Even if it means toughing out, through the minor panic attacks." Same concept here, your going to have to taper yourself, which will be uncomfortable, but necessary if you want to inevitably, in resolution cease your suboxone usage entirely. Your already at 1mg! That is an exceptional position of leverage, in the amount of buprenorphine dosage tolerant on, from where you can start to slowly, and gradually, while minutely decreasing the dose, while weaning off of it, to discontinue use completely. Listen, this is going to take willpower, and desire, as well as self determination, and purpose. It is one thing to taper down to a low dose of a physically addictive drug. Then it is an absolutely entirely different thing to make the jump to pure abstinence, of said chemical. I wouldn't recommend any illegal chemicals in assisting the mitigation of the dosage reduction withdrawal, as i don't know if blue light allows recommendation of withdrawal aids, but there are several legal supplements, and otc medications, that can be of some help. Mainly though, you want to get your vitamins, and you want to force yourself to eat good meals, get fresh air, exercise, shower, and eat decently. The more sleep that you are able to get during, will speed up the brains healing process, but opiate's post acute withdrawal effects can last up to two years, before the brain fully repairs itself, with depression, and anxiety usually being the last steps of the brain healing process, close to two years after initial abstinence. It helps if you have family, or friends to talk and discuss this with, even if your like me, and like to keep your problems to yourself, staying secluded, and isolated, in the dark, without the stimuli, as well as the everyday flow of life, can assist poor mental habits, while attempting to adjust to life without your usual medicine. It is tough, especially the first week you start to go without it completely, even if you weaned off in the most perfect idealistic fashion, its almost like a paradigm shift, a flip switched when your fully off the medicine. You will have to learn how to cope with everyday life, and emotions, and dealing with them, and living with yourself. I always find universal spirituality helps cleanse me, and keeps my dopamine, and purpose cycling, and running smoothly, whatever your dreams, beliefs, or ideals, spend time with them while healing your brain from these synthetic compounds that western medicine uses in cultural justification. You should definitely stop intravenously shooting it up though, even if its a bitch to change your administration based off your supply, and tolerance, that can be dangerous. I do not promote it, but if you're doing it anyway, make sure you use safety precautions, and cleanly antics, as well as proper and thorough filtering, before injecting. The bottom line is, with any goal, you have to commit, so ride it out, and you will be where you desire before you know it. Good luck, and hope all goes well.
-MysticChemistick33

 

[spellingmistarke]

Now first off Suboxone's active chemical, is a mu- opioid partial agonist(buprenorphine), with a significantly long half life, relatively, when compared to other chemical drug durations. It can last anywhere from 12-32 hrs, depending on dose to tolerance ratio. Now when you take less buprenorphine, it actually ends up metabolizing into more of its full agonist properties, of it's potent metabolite, norbuprenorphine. Now, the more buprenorphine you take in general, out competes the norbuprenorphine to the receptor site. So basically more is less, and since your taking less, and at the highest route of administration possible, thus intravenous, your tolerance could be more definitive, then you feel. For example, taking 8mgs sublingually, is that same as taking 4.2mgs buccally, and so on(in route of administration comparisons), that 1mg intravenously, could in fact be like taking 3mg sublingually, since sublingual administration's bioavailability is around 33% , or 1/3, as opposed to intravenously, which is 100% bioavailable, or around <9.3/10. By what your saying, you're usually taking relatively low doses, even though you had a high dope habit, depending on the quality, and style of heroin you were getting; your tolerance is not in to bad of a position. None the less, suboxone is 40x's more potent than morphine, equianalgesically speaking, in terms of concentrated potency, and dosage translation. So this means that, buprenorphine is potent at minute doses, 1mg is actually enough to make non-tolerant opiate brains, throw up, and dry heave heavily, as I've witness friends throw up on less than 0.9 of a mg. Obviously your tolerant so, you use it to get and maintain your well-being, in assurance that your "right", "fixed up", and just idealistically functionable, and operational, thus opioid maintenance. To me it's like a benzodiazepine prescription method perspective, telling your self, "only take it when you really need it!", "Even if it means toughing out, through the minor panic attacks." Same concept here, your going to have to taper yourself, which will be uncomfortable, but necessary if you want to inevitably, in resolution cease your suboxone usage entirely. Your already at 1mg! That is an exceptional position of leverage, in the amount of buprenorphine dosage tolerant on, from where you can start to slowly, and gradually, while minutely decreasing the dose, while weaning off of it, to discontinue use completely. Listen, this is going to take willpower, and desire, as well as self determination, and purpose. It is one thing to taper down to a low dose of a physically addictive drug. Then it is an absolutely entirely different thing to make the jump to pure abstinence, of said chemical. I wouldn't recommend any illegal chemicals in assisting the mitigation of the dosage reduction withdrawal, as i don't know if blue light allows recommendation of withdrawal aids, but there are several legal supplements, and otc medications, that can be of some help. Mainly though, you want to get your vitamins, and you want to force yourself to eat good meals, get fresh air, exercise, shower, and eat decently. The more sleep that you are able to get during, will speed up the brains healing process, but opiate's post acute withdrawal effects can last up to two years, before the brain fully repairs itself, with depression, and anxiety usually being the last steps of the brain healing process, close to two years after initial abstinence. It helps if you have family, or friends to talk and discuss this with, even if your like me, and like to keep your problems to yourself, staying secluded, and isolated, in the dark, without the stimuli, as well as the everyday flow off life, can assist poor mental habits, while attempting to adjust to life without your usual medicine. It is tough, especially the first week you start to go without it completely, even if you weaned off in the most perfect idealistic fashion, its almost like a paradigm shift, a flip switched when your fully off the medicine. You will have to learn how to cope with everyday life, and emotions, and dealing with them, and living with yourself. I always find universal spirituality helps cleanse me, and keeps my dopamine, and purpose cycling, and running smoothly, whatever your dreams, beliefs, or ideals, spend time with them while healing your brain from these synthetic compounds that western medicine uses in cultural justification. You should definitely stop intravenously shooting it up though, even if its a bitch to change your administration based off your supply, and tolerance, that can be dangerous. I do not promote it, but if you're doing it anyway, make sure you use safety precautions, and cleanly antics, as well as proper and thorough filtering, before injecting. The bottom line is, with any goal, you have to commit, so ride it out, and you will be where you desire before you know it. Good luck, and hope all goes well.
-MysticChemistick33

Wow - thanks for all of that. I honestly think I'm going to be okay. I'm going to get through it. I will take the taper slowly and I will manage my expectations. I think with good preparation, acknowledgment that it's not going to be easy, a very slow taper, self-care, and a positive mindset will put me in good stead. This thread has been very helpful and I appreciate people being real with me - not trying to coddle me but also not trying to put the fear in me.
I can do this. Thanks everyone

 

[MysticChemistrick33]

Your going to do it! feel free to message me if you have any questions, in need of advice, or need an understanding ear to talk to, if BL allows that kind of user interaction.
-MysticChemistick33

 

[spellingmistarke]

Your going to do it! feel free to message me if you have any questions, in need of advice, or need an understanding ear to talk to, if BL allows that kind of user interaction.
-MysticChemistick33

Thanks Mystic Chemistrick33. I will definitely hassle you at some point.
This is such a silly habit - it doesn't get me high at all, and I'm still dealing with my tendency towards negative thoughts anyway (therapy). It's probably having a bit of an anti-depressant effect on me. But I honestly don't know how I ended up still taking for this many weeks. Mainly due to fear, I think. Anyway, onwards and upwards

 

[MysticChemistrick33]

I've been on subs for 3-4 years, trust me I know, your doing good, 1mg is a great spot, in comparison to where you could be. They were giving me 2x's 8mgs(16mgs) a day, and I only needed 4mgs a day, which was all i took, and since they're so expensive, I collected, and got the most of my buck, as each prescription would last me 4x's as long as what one months script worth of medication would. So I inevitably discontinued going to my sub doctor, as I had an overwhelming amount, and figured they'd start to go bad, or lose a lot of potency before the time in which i could finish them. I am also an neuroanatomist, in the early processes of the scientific process. Now I am getting close to running out, like a month away, and I was getting ready to do the same. I don't know if you have money, but I tried an ibogaine treatment at clear skies recovery, in mexico. It was life changing and worked for quite awhile, until I had some pre grad schooling trouble, and relapsed, this was quite a few years ago. If I were to get myself off the buprenorphine completely again this time, then I'd myself go again. I am not sure if i am allowed to explain the details of the place, without violated bluelight, but you could look at clear skies site. Basically the ibogaine resets your brain receptors, including the opioid, so it would shortcut you past the post acute withdrawals. Check out the Locus Coeruleus, on wikipedia, that neurological nucleus, plays a huge role in natural chemical activity of withdrawal causing effects. The best way to start dosage reduction, is to gap the time intervals in between redosing, even if you can spread it to one-two extra hours each time before you re dose, that could potentially save up to 14 hours worth of medication, and speed up tapering process.
-MysticChemistrick33

 

[spellingmistarke]

All very interesting. Thank you. I don't think I'm in a position to go to Mexico and do that, but I'll definitely look into ibogaine regardless.
Thanks again, and hope you're doing okay.

 

[MysticChemistrick33]

Thank you, btw, I am not abusing anything, and I am in the same conditional category of chemical reaction with suboxone as you. I haven't felt it since, when my tolerance was extremely low, when I was first attempting to get off heroin, many years ago, before I eventually did, when my equivalent tolerance was well under buprenorphines ceiling dose. I appreciate the concern, but im honestly not going to lie, I will probably go back to see the sub doctor, it is not something I plan to get off of soon, but something I did get off of once, and never wanted to be on long term. This shit is way too expensive, while I am stuck still with paying off loans, and tuition. But I don't really look at it like a mental addiction anymore, I take it as conscientiously perspective wise, as a vitamin, obviously there is that physical addictive factor, where your body craves it, if you forget to take your next dose, after its been to long, and you start feeling the effects, and remember to take it. Honestly, I buccal them, right between the inner edge of my mouth, where my gums and lip/check mucosa tissue lining meet, on the top mandibles. It is of much higher bioavailability than sublingual, and is in a less vulnerable position, to where you can talk, and moderately produce saliva without any interference. I just hope your careful with that I.V. man. Anyway sorry to ramble so much. It's good to meet others in similar obstacles of their own spiritual journeys.
-MysticChemistrick33

 

[spellingmistarke]

I think what makes my situation that much harder is the fact that I'm lying. I haven't told anyone - and they think I'm clean. In fact, I have to remind myself that I'm not clean - and when that reality sets in, I crumble - get really anxious and depressed and just want to give up. The mental aspect of this seems of the utmost importance, as there's no overt "change" before and after taking the suboxone.

I just want to be able to get through this without having to disappoint family and friends. I've already become someone that can bring the mood down due to my issues, and I'm worried that if anyone found out about this, I'd end up more alone than I feel right now.

So I'm really hoping I can do this slow taper so that it's a relatively smooth transition from being on it to not being on it.

I'm so, so tired of this kind of thing. I was dealing with things and honestly thought I was on the mend, and now I've got this secret mountain i have to climb. Sometimes I just want to scream.