suboxone to prevent relapsing

[simco]

I'm not sure if this is something I even want to do. But I'm continuing to struggle with really intense urges to relapse. The cravings waver in intensity, but overall they're getting worse, not better.

Does anyone know if it's common (or at least feasible) for doctors to Rx suboxone to prevent a relapse? I suspect the answer is no...I'm not currently using and I assume this would be a deal-breaker. But it's been strangely hard for me to find info on this topic.


Any advice, anyone?

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don't think it is common but it isn't unheard of either. Some doctors would be uncomfortable with this, but others would not. If you can find a doctor attached to a hospital's IOP program that is probably your best bet in terms of getting support for your situation. The good news is that 1-2mg once to twice a day maintenance is very manageable if you're struggling with cravings.

I actually found buprenorphine more effective when I started it after detoxing, although eventually I came to the conclusion it wasn't enough for me (hence I prefer methadone to buprenorphine, but that is just my specific situation - a lot of people seem to really benefit from lowish dosages of buprenorphine per day).

Have you been continuing with the kratom or just white knuckling it simco? If you feel like you'd benefit from a maintenance medication given your circumstances that is far and away preferable to going down the dark road to highly illegal drugs/activities. Especially considering it will allow you to keep your job, maintain your current relationships, etc.

It sucks to think about having to deal with a dependency again, but if you feel like you're in real danger of going back down that road, I'd definitely suggest you make an effort to find a doctor who can help you work on getting your cravings under control using whatever means. Buprenorphine, baclofen, gabapentin, naltrexone, bupropion, each of these meds has a degree of value in your situation. The right med depends upon your specific circumstances and medical history, as well as the doctor's training, which is why I suggest a good hospital IOP program doctor covered by your insurance.

Just have to weigh the pros an cons of your options my friend. Keep your head up! Sending you good vibes simco

 

[simco]

Thanks, TPD.

I am still using kratom a bit...maybe I should just let myself use it more. My concern with kratom in this case is the prospect of dealing with an increasing tolerance.

And I was thinking of exactly what you described...a low dose of daily buprenorphine. You're absolutely right though...it's hard to see myself choosing to take on a physical dependency (on bupe). But I really don't want to do a full relapse; I'd do pretty much anything to avoid it.

Oh, I do still have one card up my sleeve...on Friday I'm going to do another ketamine infusion. When I did my first round of ketamine treatment, it definitely did reduce my interest in narcotics for a while. I'm hoping for a repeat on that.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Cool, keep us updated. Have you ever tried MBSR? An eight week training in that plus ketamine therapy should be really helpful. Throw kratom into the mix and I see no reason you wouldn't be able to stay away from dope. It's just a matter of learning to love yourself I think. Of course that is easier said than done, but it's super possible. If you haven't tried it, invest a few hundred bucks in an MBSR course. They are well worth the money. You're certainly in the right town to learn to actually sit with yourself hombre

And there is nothing to be ashamed of as far as using kratom is concerned. Yes, it isn't ideal. Yes, we would be better off if we didn't use it. But if we are serious when we say progress and not perfection, and kratom is LEGAL whereas heroin is SUPER ILLEGAL, you really can't compare the two. Plus the two dependencies are truly night and day in terms of severity. Kratom dependency is serious in its own regard, but it is far more manageable than an illegal habit of a super potent full agonist opioid.

If using kratom is causing you to hate yourself, that is a problem. Which is more realistic, learning to be okay with yourself and using kratom or struggling to not use heroin while not using kratom? I'm genuinely asking you, and no one can answer but you. AND there is no right or wrong answer, just where you find yourself. What counts is you see your situation as clearly as possible, because once you understand what is going on you'll act exactly as you should. Like when something is seen it can't be unseen kinda situation.

And god knows you have the right head on your shoulders simco. I really suggest you look into an MBSR course. How has peer recovery type support been going? I never really found that very helpful as you know, and it doesn't seem to have really been a boon to you in your new local - which in part is why I suggest you look into a non-recovery centric form of peer support that is focused explicitly on health and wellness such as MBSR. You need support, and if you haven't found the 12 step stuff helpful in your city, there is no reason to keep bashing your head up against that wall. They don't have any monopoly on recovery.

Plus you can always go back to meetings down the road. I find I'm more open to it now than I was four years ago, even though I'm still not really interested in it. Anyways I'm just saying the meetings aren't going away. So why not try something new? I'd be MBSR+ketamine+kratom+amazing wife+good job+therapy+right meds=path to success. Shit man, with all you have invested in your recovery, it's just a matter of time. Just have to invest a little more I guess. You'll get there. You're getting there

You know I'm always rooting for you brother

 

[simco]

Thank you, my friend.

I don't have anything against kratom...it doesn't make me feel bad about myself. I've been a bit shy with it simply because I didn't want to stumble into another habit. But at this point, with the threat of a heroin relapse looming, I'm not going to worry about that.

In terms of MBSR, I know that John Kabat-Zinn (sp?) and his lab offer online courses. Would you recommend doing one of those? Or is it the kind of thing that you think would be better done IRL?

Thanks again, TPD. You made me feel a lot better.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Always dude. Definitely look into MBSR groups IRL. Distance stuff is okay, but the best stuff happens when you sit down with other people in a group. That is where the magic happens. If you want I can ask some of my network for ideas about stuff in your area. Santa Fe is a pretty major city, I'm sure it has some good resources in terms of this kinda thing. Lemme know.

If you have enjoyed 12 step peer support stuff, you'll really love MBSR stuff. IMHO it take a lot of the good about recovery communities without reinforcing stuff that tends to just perpetuate stigma and alienation as much (gross generalization of course, but that was my own experience). No panacea, but it should be helpful.

 

[cj]

I am almost positive you could find a doctor to write you sub. There are so many shady sub clinics that just want money. If you decide to get on it just tell them you have been using heroin and have no idea why you didn't fail a drug test. Suggest it may have been fent dope or something. I bet it will work no problem. Or you could be honest and thatay work fine too

As to whether you should or not I don't know. If relapse is almost a certainty then I think it'll be beneficial. If it's more of a minor struggle then getting dependant againay be a mistake. I think I would do everything I could not to relapse on street drugs because opiates are very dangerous with no tolerance