Bupe Suboxone schedule......help!!!

[toaster99]

I have read a lot of older posts on suboxone. I just have a couple of questions which i couldnt find the answers to, besides, i really need all the support i can get.

Im coming off roxicodone usually amount 210-240, but i have hit the 300mg dose several times.

Im on the second day off sub. My dr prescribed 8mg in morning and 8mg at night.

Well, i want to take as little as possible. So an 8mg into quarters first thing in the morning. I feel really good when i wake up. So i usually wait 30 min to 1 hour berfore i take 2mg. Then i start feeling bad again after 2 more hours, which is usually around 12 and then 2pm and then 4pm. So im at 8mg. But, i am feeling really bad when i take the 2mg.

So, i end up taking the full 8mg. I cant figure out what i should do. Is it usual to take 16mg for the first 2-3 days for a 300mg oxy habit? I only want to take the sub for absolutely no more than 14 days. I dont want to have to detox off the sub. And by then, the roxi detox should be well under control.

Has anyone done it this way? Im looking for answers. Please help.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my post.

Mindy

 

[Unknown]

14 days is going to have a low success rate of staying off the oxys.

Try doing 4mg drops every 2 days until you hit 4mg. Then take the 6 remaining days to go from 4mg to 0. So maybe 1 day at 4mg, 2 days at 2mg, 2 days at 1mg, and 1 day at 0.5mg.

 

[djsim]

So, i end up taking the full 8mg. I cant figure out what i should do. Is it usual to take 16mg for the first 2-3 days for a 300mg oxy habit? I only want to take the sub for absolutely no more than 14 days. I dont want to have to detox off the sub. And by then, the roxi detox should be well under control.

Has anyone done it this way? Im looking for answers. Please help.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my post.

Mindy

I think you're confused. Buperenorphine just replaces the oxycodone. So by taking bupe for 14 days you havent detoxed off the oxycodone, you've just replaced it with bupe. So you'll be dependent on bupe now. The only way to get clean is to either stop cold turkey (painful with low success rate) or to slowly taper down (highest success rate). The whole point of bupe is to allow you to adjust to not chasing drugs. So 2 weeks of bupe isnt going to happen... as soon as you stop taking the bupe, you'll start WDing. You need to follow the doctor's plan. 16mg sounds about right IMO for 300mg/day oxycodone habit. The less you take the easier it'll be to detox as bupe is strong stuff

 

[yoyolove88]

As the guy in the post above said bupe isn't meant to be a quick detox drug. When your addicted to oxy for such a long period of time ( i was in the same boat ) your brain will be completely programmed to chase the high and it takes a really long time of not getting high to get away from that. Bupe makes it so that you don't have withdraw symptoms you can live a somewhat normal life and at the same time be reprogramming yourself to not need the high. I can honestly say that if I stopped bupe right now (only been back on my program for less than a month) I would probably relapse. Unless you are really really strong willed I don't see this having a high success rate at all. Especially from a 300mg roxi habit, that's a pretty damn large amount of oxy and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money 14 days on bupe isn't going to be enough to get over that.

 

[toaster99]

i thought u couldnt get dependent on the bup in that short of time. u mean, my brain is not detoxing from the oxy?

 

[toaster99]

whats the best way to dose? Why is 8 in the morning and 8 at night right? and to compete the above. I guess i am confused. i thought while i was on the bup, i would be clean from the oxy???? and since i hadnt taken bup for that long, (cause its a different kind of opiate) that it would be easiy to just wean off?

 

[DopaMan]

One of the reasons that a Suboxone taper fails is that people treat it like a normal full agonist. You really need to not snort it and take it twice daily. Taking little bits at a time is like taking your drug of choice and medicating pain/withdrawal symptoms as needed without a baseline dose is not very succesful. I would reccomend sticking to your docs rapid taper. If anything just lower the dose, but DO NOT dose more frequently. There is no such thing as a pain free detox...sorry

 

[Carl Landrover]

Well they're both opioids, so even though you're not taking oxy anymore, you're still using an opioid. Basically, you could have tried tapering down for 14 days with oxy and it would be close to the same thing. It's just that for an addict, bupe won't get you high and it's eliminating the whole illicit drug scene, so you can work on getting back to normal.

You're still going to have WDs if you taper from 16mg to 0 in 2 weeks. Only way to avoid discomfort is to do a slow taper.

 

[yoyolove88]

Your are clean from oxy but still reliant on opiates... look at it like this, whether you are on oxy, heroin, or bupe you are still reliant on an opiate. Meaning that even though you are clean from oxy you are just switching your drug of choice to bupe. Like say you were on oxy but then to quit oxy you start doing heroin your still going to have the same dependencies, meaning that your dependent on opiates in general not just oxy. Bupe is an extremely strong opiate and when you switch over to bupe your just switching to a different opiate.

The point of bupe is that you can switch over to an opiate that DOES NOT GET YOU HIGH. This enables you to feel fine, not withdraw, and have minimal cravings without getting high. Therefore you start to lose the urge for that high over time. It sounds like you think that by getting off oxy and then onto bupe then tapering off the bupe you will have no withdraw symptoms and no chemical dependency to opiates. This is wrong, you will be just as dependent on opiates because it is not nearly long enough of a taper.

just think of it like this... bupe is oxy that doesn't get you high.. everything else is the same as far as the dependency. (i know this is incorrect i am trying to generalize)

 

[toaster99]

Thanks so much for the advice. Tomorrow I will dose two times. I haven't felt well the first two days at a total of 16mg. But I wasn't taking it right, since I tried to take as little as possible and ended up not feeling well on my full dose. Seeing my dr Friday. So should I take the full 8mg in the am and then the other 8mg when I go to bed? Or can I try to reduce it to 4mg when I wake up and 4mg at night? What if I start feeling bad during the day??? It usually starts with a fever for me. Please, if u have the time, post back your advice. I really need it. Xoxo mindy

 

[djsim]

^ Why are you complicating this when the doctor has already set out a schedule for you? In Australia you'd have to go to the chemist every day to dose (and of course only 1 dose), so if you think you need to space out your doses you are wrong. If you just followed the instructions your doctor gave you it would serve you much better in the long run, after all how successful have you been with self-administration of opiates in the past? Let someone else make those decision as you really can't do so
good luck
PS. read the suboxone/bupe megathread for more information

 

[pukingcells]

It's because the doctors are very uneducated here. They take an 8 hour course and give people ungodly amounts of suboxone for a vicodin addiction.

They say it doesn't matter, but in the states it is Suboxone not subutex. I think it does.

I found when it comes to sub, everyone is very different.

You don't feel good because 16 mg is way too high for a roxi addiction IMO. Too much sub makes you feel bad. Start with 2 or 4mgs and work your way up and then come down. 16 should cover acute w/ds and you should be able to taper down within a week to a much lower dose and hold at about 2-4 a day.

I take it for a 13 year, very heavy heroin addiction and am down to 4-8mgs within a week everytime I take it. This way it will strech out as well

 

[toaster99]

Thanks pukingcells. That is what i was trying to do, see what MY body needed. One size does not fit all. I just dont know what my size is.

Im speaking with the dr tomorrow and will discuss with him this past week.

BTW, its day 3 and i havent taken any sub yet. I dont feel sick. If i feel i really need to take it today, i will start the first dose at 4mg. If i need a second dose, it will be much later, close to bedtime, and it will be 4mg.

My roxi habit was pretty large 7-8 a day have taken 10 many times but not daily. Those damn pills are so tiny you look at a quarter of one and it just doesnt register that its actually 7.5mg, so you just take half which is 15mg, then you just take the whole thing and u r at 30mg, just like that.

Yes i have been reading the mega thread and i was following some advice on the thread for my treatment. Take a little , wait, do i need more kind of thing.

Anyway, its almost 10 and im still ok, so im holding off on my first dose.

I really appreciat all of the support. The post are little pieces of gold.

xoxo

 

[toaster99]

Ok, actually saw dr yesterday. He was not happy that I was not following his schedule. So this morning I took a full 8mg tab. Felt really out of it for about 45 min, then felt pretty good for two hours, best two hours of the week. Now I have no energy getting sad again and I'm back in bed. I haven't been able to work all week. This just can't keep going on. I have clients and I have to design merch fir them to sell. I'm a designer/artist whatever. But I just have zero desire to work. I can't force it. I feel so screwed. Help!!!

 

[daysonatrain]

The first few days of my suboxone treatment made me feel a bit nautious and kinda dizzy. It sounds like you havnt been taking it regularly so that 8mgs may have upset your system a bit. you really need to stay on a steady dose, if, after several days, 16 mgs a day still seems like too much (though for 300 mgs of oxy a day it doesnt really to me) talk to the doc and get it lowered. Definetaly wait it out a few days since it takes the body a bit to adjust, and you will stop getting any highs or lows from it. I guess i dont understand your hurry to get off bupe, unless your paying for it yourself (which i was but still stayed on for 4 monthes). I had friends who would do the rapid taper on bupe and they kept going back to regular opiates, doesnt seem to work from what ive seen. If there is no reason to hurry off bupe, dont do it, give yourself some time to get back into otherr things in life that interest you, otherwise its likely you will just go back to oxys. good luck

 

[pukingcells]

Ok, actually saw dr yesterday. He was not happy that I was not following his schedule. So this morning I took a full 8mg tab. Felt really out of it for about 45 min, then felt pretty good for two hours, best two hours of the week. Now I have no energy getting sad again and I'm back in bed. I haven't been able to work all week. This just can't keep going on. I have clients and I have to design merch fir them to sell. I'm a designer/artist whatever. But I just have zero desire to work. I can't force it. I feel so screwed. Help!!!

That is because you are taking too much. Too much makes you feel real crappy. The days that you didn't take any you felt okay, right. That is because it has a real long half life. If I were you (don't take this as medical advice) I wouldnt even tell the doctor. A lot, most, of them are very uneducated even though they prescribe the med. You have to go with how your body feels. Large doses are meant for 2-3 day dosing. I wouldnt even dose tomorrow. That 8mg will last you for a while. And if your doctor wants you to do a taper, I would find another doctor because IME, opiate addicts have a very low chance of success with a short term sub program.

 

[toaster99]

no kidding pucking. I went back to bed and slept for two hours. This is crazy. Im so tired and i keep reading about all these people doing great on very small doses. I want to get off it so quick because its making me non-functional. At this point, i would rather go back to my DOC but just take it as directed for a change. I have learned my lesson. Seriously, i have a ton of pain from lyme disease.

thanks for understanding pucking

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Once you find your correct dose bupe shouldn't make you non-functional. You should be able to live life just fine on it, unless for example your creative skills have become dependent on being high. I'm a guitarist and I compose, and it took me a little while once I got clean to get back into being creative whilst sober.

Such a short amount of time on bupe isn't going to help you very much in terms of getting clean, and if you do manage to get a script again for oxycodone keep in mind that once you've been hooked it's easy to fall for it again.

 

[Johnny blue]

Wow I'm surprised that you feel like shit after only 2 hours, that sucks. It seems like a lot of doctors over do the daily dose of bupe for maintenance so my advice would be do what works for you. Like Mr. B said you shouldn't feel like shit so maybe your dose needs to be adjusted.

I also think you should stay on for a while. The drug was designed to give you time away from the cycle to get your shit together and you should take that time for it to be successful.

Good luck, I hope it all works out for you. Even with suboxone its hard to leave oxy behind but you must know you have to or you wouldn't be doing this. You can do it!

 

[edarrin]

So, i end up taking the full 8mg. I cant figure out what i should do. Is it usual to take 16mg for the first 2-3 days for a 300mg oxy habit? I only want to take the sub for absolutely no more than 14 days. I dont want to have to detox off the sub. And by then, the roxi detox should be well under control.

I have tried what you are doing exactly 3 times now. I find the first day or 2 is rough because your body needs to adjust to the partial agonism as oppossed to full agonist.

I have tapered successfully all 3 times in 7-8 days. Easy to detox with (relatively).

As others have gotten at is that after that it does nothing. It gets you over the physical aspect relatively easily. However, after that is PAWS which is the hard part. It does absolutely nothing for this. So you will need a lot more support likely. Expecially for the first while. That PAWS is no joke. It is the monkey that breaks many backs.

Good luck and never say die.