Opioids Suboxone, Methadone, Immodium and alot of questions.

[Swimmingdancer]

Anyway, in regards to the Immodium/Loperamide (always go generic, wayyyyy cheaper), I find that a good starting dose for someone with a rather large tolerance is around 60-80mg. I take 50mg of methadone/day and have been using around 3-6 bags of good heroin on top of it for about half a year now, and I can definitely feel 60mg (though any less and its not really noticeable it seems) of loperamide. In fact, I just took 80mg of lope right now as I'm trying to cut the heroin out of my routine and stabilize on my methadone dose, so I can eventually ween that down to, in due time.

As for Lope's effects, I actually find that it can sometimes be a bit overwhelming. Some people claim it takes up to four hours to work, but I always feel withdrawal relief within 30 minutes, and other effects (the "high") after about an hour. Regardless of whether Loperamide actually crosses the Blood Brain Barrier or not doesn't matter because it does effect your PNS and definitely DOES cause sedation (kind of like a muscle relaxant). About a week ago my gf and I each took 120mg and eventually passed out at 8:30 at night and slept till about ten o'clock the next day...So, lope will help with the sleep, but it is an opiate and does carry the same risks as other opiates.. People have (on this site even, I believe) overdosed fatally from loperamide and benzodiazepines, so be weary of the risks as always.

Wouldn't Suboxone block the effects of loperamide though?

 

[Znegative]

^thats something I wanted to address but forgot to.

While I've never experimented with lope while on Bupe, I know another bluelighter, Toothpastedog, had used loperamide with Bupe, or in place of his daily Bupe dose (which as I remember from the post, I'll drag it up later, was a blocking dose, 8mg) and not only felt withdrawal relief but was able to achieve other CNS opiate agonist effects.

Also, other people have claimed that repeated high dosages of loperamide used as maintenance can create a blocking effect to other opiates. Now, I don't know if this phenomenon has to do with tolerance as well as long duration of effect (like methadone), or if it has to do with a high binding affinity (like buprenorphine or other partial agonists and antagonists). Loperamide is like buprenorphine in that its a real mystery. I'm not sure how it works, I don't even know if I believe that it crosses through the BBB or whether its effects are all the result of PNS stimulation...either way though, it does help with withdrawal, and definitely feels like any other kind of boring opioid in high dosages, only it has more of a 'body high' than a 'head high', I guess you could say.

If anyone has any information on loperamide's binding affinity I would be very interested btw.

 

[plague66]

Took 25mg Seroquel last night, took me some time to get to sleep but I slept like a baby and woke up feeling great.
Did 1mg again today, getting this little brain groove again so I guess it is a signal I could & should climb even lower soon.

Znegative thanks for your posts too, I have made some threads here and you always come and post very valuable info, and ur blog is worth reading.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

^thats something I wanted to address but forgot to.

While I've never experimented with lope while on Bupe, I know another bluelighter, Toothpastedog, had used loperamide with Bupe, or in place of his daily Bupe dose (which as I remember from the post, I'll drag it up later, was a blocking dose, 8mg) and not only felt withdrawal relief but was able to achieve other CNS opiate agonist effects.

Also, other people have claimed that repeated high dosages of loperamide used as maintenance can create a blocking effect to other opiates. Now, I don't know if this phenomenon has to do with tolerance as well as long duration of effect (like methadone), or if it has to do with a high binding affinity (like buprenorphine or other partial agonists and antagonists). Loperamide is like buprenorphine in that its a real mystery.

Interesting...

I don't even know if I believe that it crosses through the BBB or whether its effects are all the result of PNS stimulation...either way though, it does help with withdrawal, and definitely feels like any other kind of boring opioid in high dosages, only it has more of a 'body high' than a 'head high', I guess you could say.

There are studies on this. Loperamide does cross the blood brain barrier, it's just that the P-glycoprotein transporter rapidly removes most of it from the brain, back into the blood. This is why if someone takes a ton of loperamide, or uses a P-glycoprotein inhibitor - or perhaps has naturally low levels of P-glycoprotein, considering there are some people who swear they get high from bupe in moderate doses - it has stronger CNS effects. Its peripheral effects would also go a long way to relieving opiate withdrawal symptoms.

If anyone has any information on loperamide's binding affinity I would be very interested btw.

The Kp values obtain in the presence of Na+ were: morphine, 9.60-10(-9) M (brain), 1.66-10(-7) M (myenteric plexus); loperamide, 7.20-10(-9) M (brain), 1.33-10(-7) M (myenteric plexus)[source]