Suboxone Induction after 1 year on Methadone

[madison*]

Hello,
I have been using opiates for the pat three years and haven't skipped a day, wow. So i started on the lighter stuff like tramadol, tylonel codiene then I moved on to the harder stuff, 40 mg Oxycontin 6 a day, and 10 15mg Roxicet. I did this for about a year or so until I checked into a methadone clinic. At the clinic my fix would be one dose of 100ml/mg per day. Back in March 4 months ago I went down 10ml/mg a month until I was at 50ml/mg or 60ml/mg, you know that pink juice, that sometimes taste better than freshly squeazed orange juice in the morning.
Well, I went back to the same doctor who got me hooked on the opiates in the first place, but I don't blame him, I blame myself. You see I have back problems with three torn disc. I did several non evasive procedures, cortizone shots, joint injection and those things they give pregnant women for the pain, hmmm...well I am at a loss of words and can't think of what that thing is called when they stick a needle up your spine??? Oh well, so I go back to him after 1 year at the Methadone Clinic and I was down to about 70ml/mg a day, and he prescribed me methadone and we agreed to drop 10ml/mg a month and stick to my plan this time. Guess what? I couldn't control myself and I was popping them little 10mg methadone pills like candy and ran out! This happen a few weeks back.
I ran out on a Saturday, and luckily I changed my appointment to Monday instead of Wenesday of that same week. He could blatanlty see that I was in the begining stages of post accute withdrawel, wrote me a script for 50, fifty, methadone to last me ten days, 50mg a day, and scheduled an appointment 12 days out, so no matter what I would be done with the methadone when I came back, unless I got some shit on the street. About two weeks into my thirty day supply of Methadone I only had enough to take 40mg a day until that Monday morning appointment, and I fucked that up, for I ran out a couple of day early.
I am single and my neighbor is a school teacher so I gave her my Methadone to dispurse to me, five a day no matter what I say or do! So I stayed the course and made it the 12 days on the 50 methadone pills that he gave me. When I got to his office I couldn't wait to take my suboxone and feel "normal", and I am not sure what that feels like anymore. I am 30 years old and only started using opiates when I was 27, that were prescribed by him the GOOD Dr. Well, I had to run back out to the pharmacy, buy the shit wait a hour at the pharmacy, and then go back to his office. He wrote me a prescription for 8 2mg pills of Suboxone. I will tell you that I felt like self administering those little orange pill on my way back from Walgreens. I am proud of myself for I waited the 10 minute drive back to the Dr.'s office without taking the Suboxone.
So my induction appoinment was set for 8:30am and I was there at 7:30am! I couldn't wait until that day, there was a lot of hope and promise pented up in me for I would no longer be on the methadone! At around 10:30am, the Dr. comes into the exam/induction room with the script I picked up and does the COWS survey. I kept yawning, had a loose stool, and sweaty palms. He administered the 1st 2mg Suboxone tablet, waited gave me another on about an hour later, and another one after that about a hour later. It was going on 2:00pm. I could not wait to get the fuck out of there, and ask him if could leave and told him to write me a script to get me through the weekend. It was Thursday and I needed to make an appearence at work! I felt weird, very weird! He gave me the rest of the Suboxone 5, 2mg, pills, and a script for 14, 2mg, Suboxone pills to last me until Monday.
He needed to see me first thing on Monday, and I guess at that point I was suppost to be stabilized. Let me tell you the rabbit went down the whole Alice, and this past weekend I felt depressed, anxious, headaches, and in slow motion. I felt like less than life, but on the other hand I wasn't kicking it cold turkey and going through PAWS. Needless to say I ate the rest of the first induction prescription, 5 2mg Suboxone, that night and had 14, 2mg Suboxone to last me Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. I was out by Sunday morning when I ate 3, 2mg, Suboxone pills.
I got into the GOOD Dr.'s office Monday that morning without my fix and told him I feel like shit mentaly, and its not because I didn't dose that morning. IS THIS NORMAL WITH SUBOXONE, and if so is this what I am going to feel like for the uncertain duration that I will be on Suboxone? During my appointment he wrote me another prescription for 8mg a day for the next 14 days, and after that he said he would write me a script on monthly basis.
Well, over the past three days I have not been taking as prescribed, for I have been taking 12mg a day, I am going to call him tomorrow and let him know what's up. Hopefully he can call me some medication into the pharmacy. Are they, the Dr.'s, allowed to call in Suboxone into the pharmacy without an Dr.'s visit? I hope so fr these copays are becoming rediculous! When will I feel normal, like when I took my daily dose of Methadone? Thanks in advance for reading my long winded thread and I appreciate any response. Live onward and upward!

 

[Bojangles69]

So wait you never got under 30mg of methadone?

I thought that was like the cardinal rule for switching to sub, how low on the methadone did you actually get? And were you just there for a day or 2? I mean they obviously just do that to avoid pwds, but I can only think that you are still "stablizing" on the sub. As long a half life that methadone has, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't feel "right" for another week or so.

What I do know is when I initially switched to sub from pods, I felt AOK the first day. It held me over and then some. But when I switched back to the pods from the sub to finish tapering, I was a mess for about 4 or 5 days before I felt right again. I don't think it matters really which way you go, I think no matter what anytime you switch opiates you're alway gonna feel a little off for a little bit.

As far as being depressed and anxious thats surprising because sub has a powerful antidepressant effect. I just couldn't imagine that its not holding you over properly. The headaches however are definitely from the sub. They got real bad for me but most people say the longer you stay on the better they get (well the better most sides get really).

I just personally can't imagine you feeling that bad on sub though. I'd have to say to give your brain another week to adjust to it. Human biology is a very complicated thing but for the most part sub is ridiculously strong, I mean it doesn't have those high euphoric effects but crumbs of it are usually enough to put off habits much higher then yours.

And for the record even though sub lasts for 3 days or so I would still feel quite shitty in the mornings untill I dosed. So you could have very well felt shitty for skipping your sub. You ideally want to speak to Captain Heroin over in the OD forum, and this thread may be better off in the sub thread for more feedback.
I only have limited experience with it but there are people here who know it like the back of their hand and have lots of experience. Just be patient and I'm sure you'll get some better responses once people see this thread.

G/luck!

 

[madison*]

Never got under 30mg of Methadone

Thanks for replying and I wrote a pretty lengthy response this morning but for what ever reason it didn't post. I will do one a day and it has been therepuetic, you know writing. I really appreciate the response. Well, I was reading on Subosonetalkzone, over the past several days, and there seems to be some valid information on the site. The founder is an oppiate addict and happens to be a physchiatrist, which is pretty cool or not, ironic, to see that folks from ALL walks of life are succeptible to addiciton and have sucumbed to addiction. It really sucks but I guess that's life as old blue eyes would say.
So my headaches or should I call them Migraines as they were just diagnosed just a few hours ago seemed to go away this morning. There is an article on suboxonetalkzone, that was posted May 30. 2010, that discusses the Narcone or Naloxone in the suboxone that has been attributed to headaches or Migraines. He suggested to put the pill under your toungue broken up and let the BUP disolve into your membraine and then spit that nasty naloxone out(it's simple read the article). I did that this morning and felt great until mid afternoon and it seemed that my headache came back but not as bad as it has been since the induction. Also, I was fasting for my blood work for my doctor's appoinment at 4pm, so it could have been low blood sugar and I do have high blood pressure. I went to a primary phycisian because the pain/sub GOOD Dr. said my blood pressure has been high the past several visits and that is why I was experiencing the Migraines. So I decided to get blood work done like chlorestorel, testosterone, thyroid, white and red blood cells checked. I haven't had a physical or a thorough eaxam like that in a long time, apppoxiamtely 9 years.
I feel good this evening and I am not going to take anymore SUB, and see how I feel tomorrow. I am prescribed 8 mg a day and I was taking 12mg for the past 3 days. I am going to run out a few days early, so I called the GOOD Dr. this morning around 9am and he never called me back. He is walking a very thin line and I am about to fire him!!! During my visit to the primary, I was told that they treat opiate addiction woth SUB and for only $85 I could join them in their pursuit to rid folks of there opiate addiction. I am seriously considering taking them up on their offer. I met with a phycisian assistant and we talked more about my health then my GOOD Dr. has in the past 3 years. I think it's time to let him go and move onto bigger and better things.
I was prescribed blood pressure medicine and floricet (sp? it's caffiene, advil, butabital), for the migraines. The junior Dr. ask me if my vision was blurry/spotty/electric and if I had an intensified smell. Well no on the first question but I can smell an ashtrey two rooms away and I smoke. It's crazy I thoought I was turning into part canine but its been my fucking headache! I took two floricit and I feel great!!! No cloudyness, no aching, no anxiety, no nausea, no nothing. Now if I could only shit without it feeling like labor! LOL!
I got down to 50mg of methadone a day before I started the Sub, and I was on that dose for exactly 10 days, went two days without dosing before induction. Before that I was on about 70mg to 100mg. I over medicated and didn't take the recomended dose, I fuicked up! I have no self constraint and I am suprised I lasted as long as I did. He prescribed me 240, 10mg methadone pills, a 30 day supply, when I first went back to him to get on the Sub. I did well the first month, but month 2 was a doozie. I was used to getting up every day for the past year and getting my fix, but now I had more methadone than I knew what to do with.

 

[madison*]

Migraine relief from floricit and swishing and spitting, not swallowing

I feel pretty good this morning, the Migraines have gone away. My head, neck and shoulders were all tense and I felt them unwind last night. I guess that I had a migraine for the past week since the induction phase with the Suboxone. My appointment is 11 days out and I only have 8, 8mg Suboxone left. Oh well, the GOOD Dr. never called me back yesterday regarding my headaches or the fact that I am going to run out of medication.
I dont believe the Dr. stabilized me properly and or that my migraines got me believing that I needed more medication. The nurse during induction said that I was the 2 person in the past 2 years go through suboxone induction. It's got me thinking about going to another Dr. for maybe the GOOD Dr. isn't as experienced as i would like with the Suboxone treatment???
I was just fine yesterday with 1, 8mg dose in the morning around 6:00am. The Suboxone ,after a week of taking it, has to be biulding in my system or it could just be a mental thing. It's holding me well, and I am so grateful that my migraines are gone!!! I didn't swallow the Naloxone today and I feel pretty good. I did this by using the technique that I found on Suboxonetalkzone, which has you spit out the naloxone after about ten minutes of swishing it around your mouth. I'm almost certain the most if not all of the Buprenorphine gets absorbed into your mouth, so don't worry you are not wasting it. I confirmed with my primary physician that the naloxone causes headaches and that the spitting thing will work, however some but not as much naloxone will be absorbed into your system via your intestinal track when you swallow the "juice." So if your getting headaches from the Suboxone then it may likely be the naloxone, just spit and don't swallow!
I am heading to McDonalds to get my number 1, with a side of OJ. It's been a week and the migraines have subsided, I do believe I am stabilized, and it seems that things are turning back to normal. The migraine medicine is working or maybe the swishing and spitt method is helping??? I will tell you though that the floricit, migraine medicine, really relaxed me and I got a solid 7 hours of sleep! Who knows? Hey I am not sure that I made the best move by switching to Suboxone from methadone or if that is ant sort of monumental progress or something to be proud of?? I hope in the future I get a bug up my ass like i did with the methadone to get off of this shit for now I am going to take it one day at a time. Want to thank you folks for read my theruepuetic thread! Anyone know if that floricit is addictive? It has butibital in it? Ciao, Ciao!

 

[sid3]

No idea about the floricet. I do know that it takes a few weeks to really get adjusted on sub. As your already noticing improvement after the first week. Headaches are said to be a sign of taking too much in a given amount of time. Dehydration could also be the cause.

 

[pukingcells]

I have been on both, a couple times each.
The headaches are very common with suboxone, I always had them. They seem to go away after 2 weeks or so.

Personally, I never felt great on suboxone and still had cravings so I ended up going back on methadone. I like it better and honestly, I feel more normal on it than I do on subs. I did the same thing years ago, I came off methadone and went onto sub because it he was supposed to be so great and I wasn't impressed--- at all. I was disappointed to say the least. I tried it and went back to active addiction, tried it again, etc., etc. As bad as it is to come off methadone, I have to stay clean today and methadone works good for me.

I hope that suboxone works good for you and I wish you luck with it. Be patient, the headaches will subside.

 

[madison*]

Feel good today, it's been 9 days since induction

I feel good today, I woke up around 8, and took my suboxone, spit the naloxone out, and still no headache. Today was wierd. When I woke I felt like I hadn't taken my methadone and was a little edgy, maybe the suboxone is starting to stabilize for I haven't felt normal since the induction. I am holding at 8mg and have been on that dose for the past 2 days and today.
So I called the GOOD Dr. on Thursday at 9am-ish and didn't get a call back until Friday, yesterday afternoon at 3:30pm, from the nurse/receptionist saying the GOOD Dr. wants to see me and that he will be available until Monday 11:30am. Luckily I have insurance and went to a primary on Wenesday regarding my migraines. They have subsided for now, I am taking the Floricet, migraine medicine, and it seem to take the edge off. There is a barbituate in the floricet, its not a benzo but has similar effects. It has relieved most if not all of the anxiety, nausea, and has made the transition a bit more bearable.
By now the methadone must be out of my system(???), there maybe some methalites in my blood but for the most part there shouldn't be any methadone left in me or my braine??? I know the methadone has a long half life and I haven't taken any since 7/6/2010, Tuesday, and prior to that I was on 50mg for 10 days, took 2 day off and then induced.
You know the Suboxone at first didn't give that rush like the methadone or some roxicet, or oxycontin, but it has held me and for the past 2 or so days since the migraines have gone away, the suboxone has given me some type of euphoric effect. I was in a state of dsyphoria, depression, anxiety for over a week but lately I feel "normal". I wanted the methadone to feel "normal" in that time and take my DOC(Drug of Choice) methadone or hydrocodone. I am glad I didn't and I hope going forward i can taper successfully.
I am not doing therapy, no 12 step program, my girl friend doesn't know I am opiate dependant. I plan on telling her sometime, I am actually talking to her right now on the phone, and she doesn't have a clue. We have been dating for 6 months. When I was on the methadone for a year, i wouldn't go out, instead I would come home from work and lay on the couch. I have been more active with her and we have been doing a lot of "healthy" things. You know walking, going to the beach and just simply living. I have lost 25 pounds since we started dating, maybe its from all of the sex or just being active. Throughout my back pain I have gained more than 70lbs, I am a big guy 6'4" and normal weight for me is 200lbs.
Well that's all folks for today. Thanks for reading, and it has been theruepuetic doing this and I hope I can beat this and move on with my life. I know Suboxone is a partial antagonist and not a magic pill. "Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do."
-Dale Carnegie