Bupe Suboxone Hallucinations

[bennyZA]

I'm not sure if this is in the right place...

I have a serious problem with both pain and addiction to pain killers. I broke both shoulders and shattered my knee, got addicted to the pain pills they gave me, od'd, and so they now give me Suboxone for pain management. Well, sub's haven't really been doing the job, so doc has basically just been telling me to take more every time I complain about pain. So I'm taking 3 x 8mg Subs a day. At night, after my 24th mg of sub, I've been having these hallucinations. They're mostly auditory and closed-eye visual. We're not talking about full blown acid trip, more like, I close my eyes to sleep and I see weird shapes and "things." I can't explain the "things," but somehow, I know what they are (weird as hell feeling) and I feel like someone is calling me. I don't hear voices or anything, but it's the feeling you get when you think you hear something. They're not crazy intense, but intense enough that I can't sleep and I need to go on an internet forum to ask people if they've ever heard of this. I'm not on any other medication. These hallucinations are timed with the latest increase in my sub dose. I can't think of anything else that could cause them. Has anyone gone through this? Is this common? Also, what are other people's take on Suboxone (not bupe, Suboxone) as a chronic pain management drug.

Personally, fuck Suboxone for pain, fuck the doctors for being so careless about prescribing me opiates after my accident... (who gives a 19yo kid a 3x80mg Oxycontin prescription + IR's and limitless refills?) and most of all fuck me for not being responsible or I wouldn't have to deal with this nightmare of a painkiller they call Suboxone.

Before you ask I did use the search engine and all I got was the Suboxone Megathread (which kinda defeats the purpose of threads, why not have a suboxone forum? Going through 45+ pages of mostly banter gets so frustrating that you just stop reading!)

 

[Tommyboy]

24mg of Suboxone is really strong (more potent than the 3 80mg OxyContins you were on), but unfortunately it's not that good for pain. In fact most people say that it is more effective at lower doses in regards to treating pain. The way that I put it is that when taking a high dose you are at the ceiling dose all the time, since it has a long half-life. That lets your body become too used to the Suboxone, making it less effective in treating pain. At low doses there is at least some room to go up so if you feel pain you can take a little more, and it will increase the amount of drug in your system considering you are below the ceiling dose.

In regards to what you are experiencing, it has happened to me before, but it was an isolated incident. It was actually 24mg that I had taken as well, and when I tried to sleep my mind kept racing with a sensation of me having a conversation, and my vision was doing weird things too. I was on Suboxone for a while at that dose and never experienced it, but after I got off the Suboxone I got some and took them. Now I never go above 8mg, but usually stick to 4mg. I haven't had any in a few month, other than 2mg I randomly found, but I digress.

My advice is to lower your dose. The higher dose isn't doing anything positive for you, so the negatives outweigh the positives (or lack there of). Also I should note that coming off of a high dose Suboxone maintenance dose causes bad withdrawals, so that's another reason to lower your dose. The good thing is that the withdrawals aren't that bad until you get below like 4mg, and if you taper slowly it's usually fine until you get fully off, and then it varies. I never had a problem going from 24mg to 16mg or even a bit lower. Once I got used to the 16mg it was easy to go down to 8mg.

From there you can see if it helps better for pain at the lower dose, but keep in mind that it might take a week to get used to the lower dose, and some of the pain may be contributed to withdrawals. If it doesn't work for pain then you can look into other options, but at least your tolerance wouldn't be sky high.

 

[bennyZA]

My pain management doc is an ass. He refuses to discuss any other treatment options, and so far, no dose of Suboxone has helped with pain. I'm worried that if I asked to lower my dose he'll just think that I'm not actually in pain and never had been... He's that kind of doc, he's that big of an ass.

 

[xxsicknessxx]

my thoughts are thus. One taking high does of suboxone caused me lots of problems. I currently take 2 8mg tabs a day and I can say as for pain its about the same as 1 norco a day. Except that it lasts all day long. I know from times when I wasn't on it at all *jail* that I had a ton more discomfort and pain then I do now being on it but compared to when I was given real pain meds by doctors it really isn't a good long term pain management drug. Its all up to you. If it doesn't work for you and you can't handle it you might be better off getting a new doctor. For real pain thats not going away any time soon I think OX is the best choice for how long it lasts I find norcos in people with serious pain is just asking for drug addiction problems. But you had ox and you couldn't use it right? The problem then is you addict part of your brain and for that subs are great. Soooo I like I said its on you. If you need something more for pain you could take norcos along with subs you won't get any high from them but you can still use them for break away pain talk to your doctor about this maybe you being on subs he won't mind giving you some norcos, but if your on subs right now and still have massive pain (which means it isn't just WD pain which people mix up with real pain) and you can't handle it... what other choice is there? Get a new doctor explain your situation and make sure he keeps a eye on your drug use.. so you don't start abusing whatever he gives you.

I can tell you I would take feeling crapy on subs any day over the absolute hell my life became when I was be given fent patchs and things by doctors. The WD was so horrible it pushed my mind and body to places I hope I never go again. So I take my subs and im happy as hell to have them plus not having the cravings for pain meds is... I dunno im so used to not craving them now I dunno what will happen when I get off subs. In the past I always relapsed so for me I have no choice its subs or nothing I can't take pain pills like a normal person and never will... once you let the monster out you can't put it back.

So if you blew pain pills before... I would assume you will again. Try to learn to deal with subs, maybe take motrin or something on top of it (no joke) or get some norcos from your doctor for break away pain.

Do you think you can take ox like a normal person?

 

[Tommyboy]

My pain management doc is an ass. He refuses to discuss any other treatment options, and so far, no dose of Suboxone has helped with pain. I'm worried that if I asked to lower my dose he'll just think that I'm not actually in pain and never had been... He's that kind of doc, he's that big of an ass.

You don't have to tell your doctor that you are lowering the dose. I don't like to give advice against doctors orders, but for Suboxone I truly think that a lot of us here on bluelight have done more research on the drug than a lot of doctors have. Also, recommending a lower dose than prescribed isn't going to cause any severe problems or anything, so I'll stick to my original post.

 

[i are spectre]

you might wanna try and get off for a bit and see where your pain level really lies. you may not eve need it as the body does heal itself (mostly). that much suboxone is just too much i can tell you that.

as for the hallucinations, ive noticed them too. i cant be sure its from the suboxone, but i have had hallucinations for the past year or so. small things shifting here or there, but they are not there. sometimes the lights flash or flicker, but no one else knows what im talking about.

now this has me interested. anyone else notice hallucinations that MAY be attributed to the suboxone?

bluelighters are right though. smaller doses are actually more effective for pain relief. that much is just messing with you. buperenorphine is a complex compound with a complex mode of action, not to mention it's metabolites which we are all very unfamiliar with (that is, there mechanism of action).

good luck, try tramadol or nuerontin maybe. tramadol works better for pain that bupe i would say.

 

[bennyZA]

You guy's are great, seriously. Thanks for the advice. Alas, much of this information I did already know. @ Iarespectre, I was off the subs for a month not that long ago, and holy shit man... so the subs do help, but not like oxy. @xxsicknessxx, you know, I can't lie to myself... there is no way I can be prescribed anything as tempting as oxy, I'd probably gobble it all up and od, again.

I would change my pain management doctor, if I could. Not really an option... So I'm kinda stuck, it sounds like. I'm going to try taking less then usual tomorrow, see how that goes. Honestly though, I would kill for a fentanyl patch, or anything for that matter. I'm in so much pain, but since I'm a young guy, I can hide it pretty well. I would give my left nut for a day in a hospital bed with all the narcotics I could ever want...

But regarding the hallucinations, they seem to come on at night. About 2 hours or so after my third pill. So that's why I assume it's the subs. Last night was really tough, they were very unpleasant, more so than usual. That's why I decided to hop on BL. Tonight, I only took half a pill. I'll see how that goes. The problem is that the pain is the worst in the morning. I'll check back in, hopefully tomorrow night, not tomorrow morning!

 

[Cotillion]

I skipped through a lot here so if it's been mentioned already i am sorry for that! Suboxone has a ceiling effect which means that only so much can be absorbed into the receptors before the rest just cycles through your body. The biggest problem with your dose is that you're only receiving the negative side effects of anything past around like 8mg daily ( that's guesstimating so mr doctor super math guys please don't attack! ) and any chance of pain relief is out the window because all your receptors are clogged up and blocked. In other countries they use tiny tiny doses for pain relief. Like myself and several other people I've talked to I got a high off of subs in the beginning, and that was due to lack of buildup. So since it wasn't blocking itself it worked better. Confusing but does it kind of make sense? Aside from the ceiling effect which is fact, most of what I'm saying is based off personal experience, research and others experiences that have been shared.

So if I were in your shoes I would drop your dose down as far as you can. You could probably cut a large portion off to start but do whatever is comfortable to you so your mind doesn't start playing tricks with ghost withdrawal and pain. Then once you're down to 8mg or so slowly start decreasing ( small drop every 3 days or so ) until you can get as low as you feel ok with. Personally I'd say 4mg max, 2mg would be optimal. I know it sounds like a low dose and it doesn't make sense but less really is more. The reason why most people say they've never felt good on it, pain relief or any euphoria if that's the goal is because people typically start out between 8-24mg because their doctors were taught a class by the pharm company. Best of luck to you!

 

[bennyZA]

I did take way less last night. Had massive insomnia (to be expected) but no hallucinations, thank god. I actually - swear to god - don't get serious withdrawals from opiates... as crazy as that sounds. I took only 4mg this morning, that's it! Had good pain relief, was even nodding off 6 hours later, no withdrawal feelings. Weird. When I first started subs for pain relief 4mg did nothing for my pain. Suboxone is such an odd drug. Unfortunately, I do expect to be on it for awhile. Without it, I was bed-ridden. Not to mention my pain doc (which I can't switch, unfortunately) would be pissed if I asked to stop, he would think I'm trying to score street opiates.

 

[oxycoma]

I would definitely recommend tapering down to a much lower level of the drug. I personally have noticed that Suboxone seems over prescribed and the addiction treatment effects can be had even at a 2-4mg dose. Given the nature and length of your use you likely are a candidate for lifetime maintenance since you will be unlikely to feel "normal" without a certain amount of opiates to satisfy your body's extra opioid receptors and give your brain some dopamine. I personally wouldn't make such a drastic taper from 24 to 4mg overnight, but I have lowered my dose by 2mg a week over an extended period and gotten it down with no withdrawal symptoms or cravings. If you have to stay with the same doc just begin tapering on your own and gauge how you feel. You know yourself best.

 

[mrsumone]

Try to get him to prescribe you some Tramadol to take on top of the subs for times when you're in a lot of pain. Although its non-narcotic, I find Tramadol to be a very effective pain reliever.

 

[Mr.Sandman]

Hey i have been on suboxone for about 2 years now.I got off morphine and heroin by myself and started getting suboxone on the street.I just recently started seeing a doctor and i was prescribed 2 8mg films a day.I dont know why but i have been hallucinating everyday and it is getting worse.It went from a rare occasion to now seeing crazy shit in the corner of my vision.It is from the suboxone that i have no doubt,Im just glad i finally found others that have experienced it as well.