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  • TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android

Suboxone for depression!

Dear Phil.Mckeer,
Ive read before about tiny amounts of a substance helping ALLOT when a person gets to the end of their tappering off of opiates. Do you believe this to be true?
I forget what it's called.....a tiny tiny amount mixed in water or? Is it A tincture? No...umm? Your obviously smart.....I could benefit much from a person who has your knowledge and experience.
 
Hi Kate, not sure what you mean...are you talking about tapering down on buprenorphine (aka suboxone, subutex, zubsolv, "subs") to detox off opioids?

Feel free to PM me if you want. I'd be happy to help with whatever limited knowledge I have :)
 
Hi Phil,
Yea, I'm tapering down from opiates. Got way up to 2x200mg morphine er, morphine elixir 4x20 mg, and 2-3mg klonopins a day. I've been tapering down my doses for 2 months almost. Now I'm down to....100mg morphine er, 1&1/2mg klonopin per day.
I'm going to cut the above in half, or 1/4 next week. So proud of myself cuz I do have accesss to more but I'm just fed-up with this long term addiction...It got me to a place where I feel like zombie/prisioner and have constant anxiety about loosing my supplier, getting caught by cops, labeled, and my kids (all adults now, with kids of their own) are all asking, " Mom, what happened to you, you never just sat arround in your house all the time before?,?"
And my kids/grandkids are one of the only things I've ever been SUPER good/sucess at, (besides being great at art/drawing I can't let them and me down like this anymore.
The huge struggle is that I have a super sensitive system, i think...lol...ie; I got a bad head cold and tried to take some Tussin DM Max last night and my heart was just racing like I took speed?! I'm drinking alot of water, and eating healthy. But I seem to be starving all the time.
I've tried tapering off before but I had been on aprox half what I got up to this time. And everything was going well until the day came for Zero opiates. Then it hit HARD. I felt, then, that the physical withdrawal had been won, BUT my mind went bonkers....racing thoughts, anxiety of the charts, and my short term memory just about disappeared. I don't know I can do that ever again. Plus, I have chronic neck pain that with no opiates would incompassitate me for at least 3 days a week, and Id end up in the ER all the time.
I am looking for a doctor agressivly. Even when I do find one they won't even broach any pain issues until you've been with them for a few months, at least, and even then they freak out if you ask for a vicodin rx. (And thats even when I've got MRI & x-ray proof of my condition) not "red flagged" or anything like that. Where I live is kinda rural and we recently had this Dr Feel Good get convicted of killing patients with Over medicating pain meds....all the drs are scared shitlesss on top of already being natzi-like about pain meds in general.
I am commited to this taper down, I love the clearer mind.....But I'm very concerned @ having ZERO opiate in my system.
Advil has been helping, but this racing heart thing....i can hear it beat in my ears when I try to sleep, and any noise at all & I jump, like a newborn, making my heart race even harder.
I think Im being hard on myself even tho I keep telling myself, " you can do it, you are doing great" I've been getting outside every day to exercise and try to sweat out some of the toxins. A wierd thing....I'm constipated now and wasn't before...sometime I seem to react oppisite of other I know? I've been taking Miralax and thats helping me go, but not sure if that can mess up or make these withdrawal
symptoms worse.
That's all I can think of. ...oh yea, I was asking if you've ever heard of, oncecI get lower, if I took something like a 20mg methadone and mixed it with like 120mls of water and then took like 10mls-a sip, would that help me from going back into that hellish spot wher I felt I was going insane? Any suggestions, links, thoughts, experiences, etc that you've got would help me so much to not feel all alone and give me some hope for my struggle & journey.
I love your user name and your posts! Thanks, hope you r doing & feelin good.
xxx HUGs 2 U, ♡Kate P.S. i use thc and cbds but don't know much. I know it helps me relax and w the anxiety as long as I dont over do it .....i think its an amazing medicine and I love to grow my own in my back yard, all organic all the way....i love MaryJane but the local laws changing kept me from growing this year. Next year I'm back in, I miss that part super bad.What do you think on this subject?
one more Question, did you see that post @ withdrawl aids? I looked back for it but couldn't find it....& what's your thoughts on the list....if u saw it?
 
Dear Phil.Mckeer, im sorry i didnt pm you, i dont know how to....
but i wrote you in TDS forum a bit earlier. I just forgot to add....
my son is CONVINCED that if he gets me 5 suboxone films i could take them, or tapper them,mand then whammmo-magicly Id be opiate free AND no bad withdrawl at all. I think that is not correct. He used morphine for 6 months, 15mg a day, then used 4 suboxone films and then cold turkey....and he's feelin FINE. BUT, I was on waaaay higher doses for waaaay longer.....over 10 years with only one detox, for a few months. And I think he's not informed correctly. He says when hecwas in jail for 3 months, hed see these "junkies" come in, go into BAD withdrawl, and the nurse would give these guys "A FEW DAYS" of Suboxone film/strips & then none at all, and they would be fine. IS IT JUST ME OR IS THAT JUST TOO GOOD 2 B TRUE?
Thanks again......kate
 
I got on suboxone for depression, it was the worst choice ever. I just want you to know this is a terrible idea. It worked great at first but now it just makes me normal/still depressed and I feel like death with out it. Biggest mistake ever
 
I agree with Lynn160, I would seek other options unless you plan on being on it for life, the withdrawls from Suboxone IMO are far worse than opiates and last longer.
 
Hi Kate, its not too good to be true, your son is (almost completely) correct. He did you a solid procuring 5 sub strips for you. You now have 40mg of buprenorphine to use as a replacement opioid long enough for your body to kick the H but not long to get habituated to the bupe.

Wait until you're in FULL withdrawal (there is a chart called COWS online that can help you score your level of w/d). But the key word is wait. Forget counting hours, WAIT.

What you want to do and THIS IS IMPORTANT is allow yourself to linger in the miserable state of FULL WITHDRAWAL for about 8 hours. Symptoms should begin 18-24 hours from last dose (you'll start feeling restless, eyes and nose will start running, might get sneezing fits of 10 in a row, but worst of all body pain (especially in the bones, joints and any where previously injured), and the dreaded RLS (restless legs) which you might find involves more than just legs.

Anyways my point is your son is very right, you can use those 5 strips to perform a private, at-home opioid detox. All you need aside from this is willpower, desire, and maybe some gabapentin, clonidine, and maybe xanax or klonopin.

Wait til the above symptoms have been rocking you and they've been getting worse over 7+hours. Once you've suffered like hell and are ready for relief, get your subs, they'll make you feel better.

I recommend splitting them into smaller doses. For induction (first dose of bupe), I'd cut the strip into 1/8ths if possible and use 1mg at a time. Take a mg, wait +/- 2 hours, then do the next.

There's a chance you'll feel "held" after 4mgs. There are IV H users in this very forum who get by on 2mg/day.

You might need a bigger dose the first time. That's OK just keep taking 1mg and waiting ~2 hours until you feel good.

You have 40mgs. You can go like this:

Day 1: up to 8-12mgs
Day 2: 6mgs
Day 3: 4 MG's
Day 4: 3 MG's
Day 5: 2 MG's
Day 6: 1 mg
Day 7: repeat
Day 8: repeat
Day 9: 0.5 MG's
Day 10: repeat
Day 11: Repeat
Day 12: Repeat
Day 13: skip (test, see how u feel)
Day 14 (optional): take 2mgs as a final stretch dose. this should leave some subs left over for the future and keep your blood concentration high forms few days to prevent any sudden w/d symptom onsets.

Basically what you're doing is masking the H withdrawal by plugging the receptors with bupe, then gradually reducing the bupe to 0.

There will be discomfort, but you'll power through it.

This is the way it is done. Doctors will tell you to take 16mg/day+ fofever, and that's ricockulous.
 
Dear Phil.McKeer, you are a sweetheart! I appreciate the time and thought you put into this reply.....thank you so very much!
I believe you. I've read all the posts from you I could find and I am likeminded, imo. I SUPER needed your input. I'm going to continue my taper regimine, that I started 2 months ago, off the morphine. My short term memory is shot, but I know it will come back, so I just laugh at myself and it's a good reminder of one of the HUGE reasons I'm doing this. I want my life back, I'm so OVER the old me. It's NOT easy, at all, but I'm already changing in ways I'd forgotten were possible and so full of faith again.
I'm down to nearly 1/3 of what I was on. I hit a wall this week but I was able to get some klonodine 0.1mg tabs. At night I take 1/4 of that and OMG, my heart is not pounding inside my head anymore! 2 months of almost no sleep, I'm gonna leavel out here for 4-5 days, sleep as much as possible, then I will be ready for the next step down, 3/4 off ie; 50mg per day with 4 wks spent there. Then down to 25mg, then 10mg, then to the Subs. Does that sound appropriate to you? Or 5mg then the subs I wonder?
I was SO terrified of the very very end, in 2-3 months, where i was going to go to absolute zero.
But with your posts/help, schedule....not terrified anymore!
once I get down to the lowest morphine a day, then I will do the Suboxone, from your plan above :) I will stay to the lowest I possibly can on day one of the sub., then taper off like you posted.
I have gotten some klonopin, and as I said some klonodine, which I plan on using only in the smallest doses, only through any walls I may encounter. As well as theTHC&CBD's I have regular access to, never over do and know how my system uses them.....when it's right 'n when not, for me.
I do understand though, that at the very end I will have to fight for awhile, and I AM WILLING 2 in order to get my brain back. I don't mess arround with anything anymore....already such a huge change in my beliefs&actions!
I look everything up now, check sources of info., and as my son taught me, don't believe it just because it's on the net.....of course others may have their own adgenda, or simply have different metabolism or who knows what.
But, as I said, I do believe in This Method, for me and for my long term recovery.
I can see the light at the end of this tunnel. Even though it gonna take a few more very chalenging months, at the end, I am strong and I know I can do it.
I know it's not for everyone, but with my past traumas....I'm also setting up counseling and going to get a Dr who will help me with my other health - issues,,,,regular health care, check ups, etc. (I haven't seen a Dr in over a decade, except for my few visits to the ER...............and me, NOW, being willing to do that ,is HUGE in so many ways!)
Do you see any things I may have left out of my plan or any possible misconceptions I still may hold? If so, I hope you will please tell me straight up.
I have a prediction that I will suceed. And, that I will never forget you, or your guidance and grace. It takes a special kind to offer help, truth and time as you have for me and others. No B.S. Phil, You Rock.
 
Hahaha anytime, I love to help. Yeah its always smart to taper down on your DOC before hopping on subs. You'll need much less subs as a result.

I think you pretty much have your plan down tight. Just be careful when first taking the subs. I can't stress enough that you have to linger in w/d for a whilebefore you take them. You may be tempted to take them sooner but it will only cause you to plunge into precipitated withdrawal (by knocking off the morphine still bound to your receptors).

BTW - you're taking morphine in the form of pills right? If so, you're on much less than you think. The oral BA of morph is ridiculously low so if you take, say, 100mg, you're really only taking 30-40mg. The rest is lost in first-pass metabolism in your liver.

Keep that in mind as you taper. And good luck! And when you figure out the private message thing, shoot me an update :)
 
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The wds for suboxone are the worst. For me they could last almost 2 weeks. skin crawling is just the horrible beginning. I've been on subs for a year. This time. I think I have PAWS Subs don't make me feel less depressed.
 
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