Opioids Suboxone Cold Turkey 8mg 3 weeks

[ThePharmacist25]

Immodium, high dose?

I have had great success with taking high dosages of Immodium for withdrawal. It really works good and stops almost all the withdrawal symptoms.

What is a HIGH DOSE of Immodium? I have these chewables that are minty and I am always hesitant to taking any more then 16mg (they're 2mg each).

So Immodium really helps these W/D's, like completely? And Immodium is obviously not going to induce W/D's from it, right?

Thanks.

 

[LSDoses]

Has anyone else had problems with being allergic to subs? I tried to kick and started taking 4mgs of subs and after a day or two my forearms were covered in hives and my breathing was constricted. It took about a week after stopping to settle down. I mentioned this to another person and the first thing they said was they were allergic to it. Is this common or does it just seem that way?

 

[Pegasus]

What is a HIGH DOSE of Immodium? I have these chewables that are minty and I am always hesitant to taking any more then 16mg (they're 2mg each).

So Immodium really helps these W/D's, like completely? And Immodium is obviously not going to induce W/D's from it, right?

Thanks.

Loperamide is not going to work as well as kratom... It does work pretty well though, not nearly "completely" but it is certainly better than nothing. I had relief from even 6mg or so of loperamide and I am hesitant to take much more than that...

 

[DeLee]

Lower doses of suboxone are far more euphoric, as buprenorphine is not a full agonist, but norbuprenorphine, what it metabolizes into, is. Taking smaller amounts leaves receptors free for the norbupe to bind to. I am talking SMALL doses at a time (0.5 mg or less) as bupe is POTENT.

That is a widely debated subject but it is not written in stone or truth to that it actually is like that.

Me for an example i feel a lot better on 8mg's than on 1-2mg's. So for me the "less is more" rule just doesn't work.

 

[sprockets2000]

OKay guys this is weird, its what like day 5 or 6 and I havnt felt shit at all, in fact now on day 6 I feel pretty good, in fact all i got was some hot flashes and that spider feeling in the back and legs you know where it feels like your muscles are a sea of jello that just got upset.

 

[SizzleNips]

I'm going to be kicking a long Suboxone habit, 5 years at 16mg a day. I switched jobs, I used my stockpile while waiting for the health insurance to kick in at my new job. So now that I have health insurance again, it turns out all the doctors who can prescribe Suboxone within a 100 mile radius are at their 100 patient limit and those that even pretend to have a waiting list say its going to be a 3-4 month wait at least. Didn't really think it was going to be such a hassle to get back on it, it was so easy to get on it 5 years ago, now everybody is all booked and at their prescribing limit.

So after some futile attempts at booking an appointment I figured I had to start tapering, so instead of putting it under my tongue I started snorting it. It felt more intense when snorted, I mean I didn't feel anything after all those years when putting 16mg under the tongue, but snorting 2mg gave me a little opiate feeling. So I thought there was a huge difference in bioavailability between the 2 routes of administration but apparently the the difference in BA between the 2 ROA's is minimal. Which would explain why I have been so damn depressed and unmotivated ever since I started the taper, but since I thought I was getting the same amount of Suboxone in my brain every day I never pinned it on Sub w/d and so it was all so bearable as a result because I just thought it was regular depression and there was nothing I could do about it. However, going below 2mg, now that I'm aware that I'm not actually getting more due to a change in ROA, it has been difficult, but I stabilized on 1mg intranasal for 2 months and got down to 500mcg for the last week. I'm wondering how bad the w/d will be?

I'm almost afraid to ask. I kicked a mild to moderate IV heroin habit (3 bags a day, for 6 months solid, chipping before that) when I was 23. I kicked in a homeless shelter, since that was 10 years ago the pain of the experience isn't quite so fresh in my mind, but they would kick us out at 6 am everyday and it was November in Upstate New York, I'd have to walk around the city going through dope w/d which I think made it get over with quicker rather than being in a familiar bed. Don't get me wrong, it was a nightmare, no sleep for 4-5 days, my lower back had that distinctive dope-kick pain, everything hurt including my hair, the awful diarrhea, and the hyper-emotional states were nothing I'm looking forward to revisiting. But I didn't vomit or feel all that nauseous, no appetite, but not vomiting, and I didn't have RLS at all, I did yawn all the time the first couple days, and obviously chills and goosebumps, and it was really easy to ejaculate although it didn't feel good like a normal orgasm, it almost felt like I could feel all the machinations of my prostate emptying, every spasm that worked the semen out I could feel rather than a normal orgasm where you just lose yourself in the pleasure, this was almost like my body going, "yeah, whatever, squirt, squirt" But afterwards I did get a few minutes of lower back relief, but still no where near anything that resembled sleepiness. That's always fun, laying in a load of your own protein in a bunk bed in a homeless shelter in Utica, NY whilst going through heroin withdrawal, fun times, fun times. But hey, at least I had the top bunk, you know what they say, when life hands you lemons ...

So I since I never had RLS or vomiting does anyone here think I would coming off of 1mg of Suboxone? Why do people say Suboxone is the worst? I can't count how many times I hear people say, "Oh thats the worst to withdraw from." after I tell them what I'm about to do and so I say, "Why don't I do heroin again and then kick that instead." to which they invariably reply, "Oh no, don't do that." So none of this makes sense, if Suboxone is the worst opiate to withdraw from then why not switch to another opiate and kick that? It seems in my travels online over the last few weeks there is really only one constant, that whatever a person is withdrawing from now or immediately in the past was/is the worst. Thats really the only thing that is reliably the same, other than that everybody will tell you something different in regards to what they think will help and what they think will happen and all that.

But oh well, you all know how it is, when kicking all you want to do is talk about your symptoms and dwell and ruminate on them and think about how good a blast of smack would be, or whatever your DOC was. So in those respects we're all the same. And I'm sure I'll kick up some discord amongst you all on here, but can anyone tell me about what to expect from the w/d from 1mg of Subs after 5 years and if it would be better to switch to a short acting opiate and kick? I'm sure I'll get a thousand different answers, but oh well, its all I can think about or talk about as I start going through this so even if your responses don't help, they probably will.

 

[ControlDenied]

thats why everyone told you you wouldn't get withdrawal from only 3 weeks on suboxone.

now dont get too excited, keep yourself at a state of not being sick or addicted, okay

 

[ControlDenied]

"It seems in my travels online over the last few weeks there is really only one constant, that whatever a person is withdrawing from now or immediately in the past was/is the worst. "

pretty much. I think youll be fine, and if you think so too, then you will. For gods sake ignore naysayers, whiners and fear-spreaders.

 

[Pegasus]

I'm going to be kicking a long Suboxone habit, 5 years at 16mg a day. I switched jobs, I used my stockpile while waiting for the health insurance to kick in at my new job. So now that I have health insurance again, it turns out all the doctors who can prescribe Suboxone within a 100 mile radius are at their 100 patient limit and those that even pretend to have a waiting list say its going to be a 3-4 month wait at least. Didn't really think it was going to be such a hassle to get back on it, it was so easy to get on it 5 years ago, now everybody is all booked and at their prescribing limit.

So after some futile attempts at booking an appointment I figured I had to start tapering, so instead of putting it under my tongue I started snorting it. It felt more intense when snorted, I mean I didn't feel anything after all those years when putting 16mg under the tongue, but snorting 2mg gave me a little opiate feeling. So I thought there was a huge difference in bioavailability between the 2 routes of administration but apparently the the difference in BA between the 2 ROA's is minimal. Which would explain why I have been so damn depressed and unmotivated ever since I started the taper, but since I thought I was getting the same amount of Suboxone in my brain every day I never pinned it on Sub w/d and so it was all so bearable as a result because I just thought it was regular depression and there was nothing I could do about it. However, going below 2mg, now that I'm aware that I'm not actually getting more due to a change in ROA, it has been difficult, but I stabilized on 1mg intranasal for 2 months and got down to 500mcg for the last week. I'm wondering how bad the w/d will be?

I'm almost afraid to ask. I kicked a mild to moderate IV heroin habit (3 bags a day, for 6 months solid, chipping before that) when I was 23. I kicked in a homeless shelter, since that was 10 years ago the pain of the experience isn't quite so fresh in my mind, but they would kick us out at 6 am everyday and it was November in Upstate New York, I'd have to walk around the city going through dope w/d which I think made it get over with quicker rather than being in a familiar bed. Don't get me wrong, it was a nightmare, no sleep for 4-5 days, my lower back had that distinctive dope-kick pain, everything hurt including my hair, the awful diarrhea, and the hyper-emotional states were nothing I'm looking forward to revisiting. But I didn't vomit or feel all that nauseous, no appetite, but not vomiting, and I didn't have RLS at all, I did yawn all the time the first couple days, and obviously chills and goosebumps, and it was really easy to ejaculate although it didn't feel good like a normal orgasm, it almost felt like I could feel all the machinations of my prostate emptying, every spasm that worked the semen out I could feel rather than a normal orgasm where you just lose yourself in the pleasure, this was almost like my body going, "yeah, whatever, squirt, squirt" But afterwards I did get a few minutes of lower back relief, but still no where near anything that resembled sleepiness. That's always fun, laying in a load of your own protein in a bunk bed in a homeless shelter in Utica, NY whilst going through heroin withdrawal, fun times, fun times. But hey, at least I had the top bunk, you know what they say, when life hands you lemons ...

So I since I never had RLS or vomiting does anyone here think I would coming off of 1mg of Suboxone? Why do people say Suboxone is the worst? I can't count how many times I hear people say, "Oh thats the worst to withdraw from." after I tell them what I'm about to do and so I say, "Why don't I do heroin again and then kick that instead." to which they invariably reply, "Oh no, don't do that." So none of this makes sense, if Suboxone is the worst opiate to withdraw from then why not switch to another opiate and kick that? It seems in my travels online over the last few weeks there is really only one constant, that whatever a person is withdrawing from now or immediately in the past was/is the worst. Thats really the only thing that is reliably the same, other than that everybody will tell you something different in regards to what they think will help and what they think will happen and all that.

But oh well, you all know how it is, when kicking all you want to do is talk about your symptoms and dwell and ruminate on them and think about how good a blast of smack would be, or whatever your DOC was. So in those respects we're all the same. And I'm sure I'll kick up some discord amongst you all on here, but can anyone tell me about what to expect from the w/d from 1mg of Subs after 5 years and if it would be better to switch to a short acting opiate and kick? I'm sure I'll get a thousand different answers, but oh well, its all I can think about or talk about as I start going through this so even if your responses don't help, they probably will.

I'm not sure how much you have read up on this around here at BL, but if you have, you have seen me on a crusade to get people to use kratom to come off of opiates, buprenorphine in particular. There is no benefit to me for pushing this concept like I do; the fact is just that it works very well for most, and at least decently well for the rest.

Think of kratom leaf as a mild opioid; an opioid "coffee" if you will. The effects aren't very strong, but still give effects up to around 25-30mg oxycodone or so IME. When in withdrawal, this amount of opioids will certainly bring a great deal of relief.

The biggest advantage to using kratom leaf over another short-acting opiate is that kratom (leaf) is not as addictive as the other opiates. In the two weeks or so that buprenorphine withdrawal lasts, kratom dependence will likely not occur at all, and even if it does, it will be mild. Most people who take kratom leaf for long enough to get dependence (usually months rather than weeks) compare the withdrawal to something slightly more intense than caffeine withdrawal but less intense than withdrawal from the poppy-derived opiates. Note that I am referring to the kratom leaf specifically when talking about this addiction potential, as kratom extracts and enhanced kratom are more loaded with the potent alkaloids such as 7-OHM and mitragynine, and thus are more addicting.

I am coming off of a dose of approximately 0.7mg bupe nasally per day right now. This was only around a six month stint on bupe this time, but I have jumped off of bupe several times in the past, on some occasions for longer than six months. The very first time I quit bupe, I tapered my dose extremely well, all the way down to 0.2 - 0.3mg nasally per day, and withdrawal was still pretty unpleasant. I was recommended kratom by a fellow Bluelighter and the day the kratom arrived, not only did my withdrawals go away, but I felt pretty good on top of it. Even jumping from 0.7mg like I did this time, I still feel pretty good when the kratom kicks in over withdrawal (especially right when I wake up, read more on this below).

Kratom covers up the effects of withdrawal pretty well, but it does not last nearly as long as bupe. You'll probably have to do two to three doses per day when initially transitioning. When you sleep, withdrawal has plenty of time to build and so you should probably expect to wake up in withdrawal. Personally, I just get the dose ready to go so I can take as soon as I wake up; Dosing late at night before going to sleep also helps by reducing the amount of time that withdrawal has to build up.

I think this is the best route to come off of bupe. I recommend looking more into kratom; There are good threads here in the Other Drugs forum titled "Utilizing kratom for opiate withdrawal" and "The kratom thread" to describe kratom in more detail. I think I covered many of the basics but definitely look more into kratom if you think it sounds right for you. Given your situation, I think this plan sounds great for you! It sure works very well for most people. Good luck, and feel free to ask any questions you may have!

PS- The reason many people claim bupe withdrawal to be so bad is that it is very prolonged. Heroin withdrawal is a bit more intense for most, but only lasts a few days. Bupe withdrawal chugs on at nearly the same strength for around a week before easing up a bit, and it keeps going from there, just slightly less intense. Many people report still feeling certain effects of withdrawal into the third week and longer occasionally. This is why methadone and bupe are considered such a pain to quit.

 

[piebald]

ive taken 16 mg of immodium before, if your used to having opitates in your system anyway it wont stop you up any more than you normally are..thats why it works for withdrawls, its an opiate but it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier so you dont get the high with it, but it def. helps with all the aches and pains associated with withdrawl

 

[SizzleNips]

Thanks or the info guys. yup, Kratom was definitely on my list of things to procure. I've used it before and it definitely has an opiate feel to it, the itching and pinpoint pupils. I was buying resin cakes of it, it was like a hockey puck of kratom resin for <snip> and I had to eat quite a bit of it even after a few years of being off opiates, I was essentially opiate naive at the time of my kratom experiences and I still felt I had to eat an inordinate amount of it to get an effect. I also vaguely recall trying an alcohol tincture of a compound I think was called 7-acetoxy-mitragynine which was an acetylated version of 7-OH-mitragynine which in my opinion wasn't worth it, the resin cakes were better.

But so far my arsenal is as such:

50g of Phenylbutyric acid (Phenibut)
100g of N-acetyl-Tyrosine
90 pills of 350mg Carisoprodol
plenty of Immodium
some multivitamins


I'm thinking of adding Kratom to the arsenal but money is tight so I'm thinking Ultram might squeeze in before Kratom, but that would sort of defeat the purpose since I'd end up hooked on Ultram instead. My goal is to stay asleep with a combination of Phenibut and Carisoprodol (Soma) during the worst of it. I've already switched to heroin so the Suboxone has been out of my system for a few days now and I have been using small amounts of heroin to keep the withdrawal symptoms at bay. I haven't done heroin in years, maybe 10 years, and I find after being on suboxone I have to dose with heroin every 4 hours to keep the Suboxone withdrawal symptoms at bay, I used to only have to do heroin once a day to keep the w/d a way, but after years on Suboxone I now find that once a day with a short acting opiate doesn't cut it. I think the problem is that Suboxone is so long lasting that while you are on it your opiate receptors never ever get a rest, they are always constantly stimulated albeit at a low level. But on heroin you go through periods of withdrawal every day, or at least I used to, I would score in the morning, go to work, then come home and sleep and wake up dopesick. So overnight my brain was experiencing dopesickness while I was asleep and unaware, the best way to be dopesick. So when I kicked it only lasted 4-5 days of the worst symtoms, obviously I was depressed for months afterward, but no real physical symptoms of heroin withdrawal after a weeks time. But on Suboxone your brain never has that period of dopesickness overnight to shock it back to reality so your physical addiction is so much more complete and why the w/d lasts so long. Same with methadone, which has a long half-life, but is also a full agonist so its kick is even worse. I used to think Suboxone was a miracle drug, but now I'm like whats the point, the withdrawals are just as bad if not worse in that they last longer and you don't get high at all. Why not just do dope instead, at least you'll get something out of it in exchange for the misery you'll eventually feel. But I digress.

I definitely don't want to go to an inpatient detox, in New York they've made smoking cigarettes unlawful in any hospital-like setting and theres no access to hot showers and they keep you constantly awake and in meetings. Its horrible, at least in jail you can stay in bed, in rehab your treated even worse than a criminal, you have to stay awake and talk about your feelings with complete strangers for 12 hours a day, yeah like thats going to cure your desire to jam a syringe full of smack into your arms. I hate the whole recovery scene, it seems so backward, why have someone who is trying to quit drugs sit in a room full of other people who crave drugs and talk about their feelings toward drugs? Why not have those that want to quit spend their time around people who don't use drugs to begin with, I'm pretty sure that if your goal is to quit drugs your time would be better spent hanging out with people who haven't overtly failed at the task at hand themselves, I'm sure you'd probably have more to learn from folks who were either successful or never even tried in the first place rather than concentrate all the people that failed into one room so they can learn from each other. </rant>

So oh well, I'll keep you all apprised of my progress or glaring lack thereof, however this whole opiate detox thing pans out.

 

[Mora Fiend]

Just my 2 cents on this subject. I was addicted to tramadol and was taking dangerous doses to get high (600 mg at a time) which was incredibly stupid. I will tell you that the withdrawl from tramadol was horrible compared to my heroin withdrawls. I would suggest not using tramadol at all during this process if you can, you could potentially switch one addiction with another, and having access to 10000 pills just exacerbates the problem.

 

[Pegasus]

Sizzle, I see you're on the fence about getting kratom for your withdrawal based on your previous experience. I just want to say that kratom is a pleasant drug generally, but in withdrawal it is the perfect drug. Don't take just my word though. Read about people using kratom for withdrawal and I think you'll see that they are all pretty positive.

 

[SizzleNips]

wow, never expected that

Ouch, I can't believe how bad the w/d were after only 12 hours, I think I made it a total of 18 hours before I rinsed some cotton that had bupe in it. There's a couple things I just can't believe:

1.) How bad the withdrawals from bupe are when being stable on such a small dose for so long. Maybe because I was on it for so damn long? But to anyone seriously considering long term treatment I wouldn't necessarily advise against it, especially if your killing yourself and bank account with heroin or oc or something, but I would definitely recommend just using it to taper of your DOC and not get on it long term without some serious thought. I was 5 years clean when I went on subs, I'm cursing the day I got on it now just because I had thoughts of going back to dope, i had only messed with kratom and thinking about doing dope again so i went on bupe, bad decision. But then again it totally kills depression and the only reason i'm struggling is cause our idiotic gub-o-ment decided to put a 100 patient limit on doctors, theres literally 6 doctors in my area that are all at their prescribing limit, its bullshit. Just my luck the one thing in this world that made life tolerable, opiates, is illegal. I must be in hell.

2.) How such a tiny, tiny, miniscule amount of bupe totally killed the withdrawal symptoms. It seriously could not have been more than 100-200 micrograms. I mean I was in that constant up and down out of bed pacing and leg kicking, I was actually dry heaving, I never ever ever had that, even w/d from long term IV heroin. At least for me the bupe w/d is no friggin joke like I thought it was going to be.

Since that little amount of bupe totally killed the withdrawal i'm thinking the kratom may be a good idea, I'm just hoping I can find a place that delivers overnight. My Soma's still have not arrived, I'm thinking I got ripped off there. Other than that my only option is the hospital but all they give you clonidine (blechhh!) and such a ridiculously small amount of ativan its a joke. I don't think I want to trade that for being able to smoke cigarettes, plus some hot 21 year old girl whose sober has decided to stop by after work everyday to help me out, way better than an irritated nurse whose pissed off she has to work with junkies all day.

 

[SizzleNips]

Hey Pegasus -

Can you give me your story? Like what were you on and how the Kratom helped and such. I know when I did Kratom it felt like a combination of a really light opiate and a little like ecstasy but it wasn't all that addictive, it didn't have that real addictive pull that most opiates, even light opiates like hydrocodone has for me. I'm just wondering if the Kratom will make the withdrawals more prolonged or something. But hey, I definitely can't jump off where I am now without being locked in a psych ward, I will do anything to get the dopesickness to go away once it sets in, I'm way more of a pussy than I thought. So maybe using Kratom to taper would be more sensible since its so much weaker it will take the edge off but still leave me withdrawing. I definitely can't use heroin to taper, that was idiotic junkie thinking on my part and probably made the w/d worse even though I was only on it for a week.

 

[SatchelPee]

I am sure this not what you want to hear while going through this shizz but man, you are funny sizzle nips. Especially that part about being on the top bunk and life giving you lemons .. Really funny.. Anyway . I kicked subs after a 7 year run w/ kratom and it was managable sucked but managable . PM Pegasus, he will tell you exactly how to do it .. I hope you are ok man .. I feel your hell and raise you some purgatory ..

 

[hemotech98]

What

I have had great success with taking high dosages of Immodium for withdrawal. It really works good and stops almost all the withdrawal symptoms.

What were you coming off of Tylonal? We all wish it that east.....just sayin

 

[dpc1192]

do yourself a favor and ween to like .5 for a few days then just wake up and don't take it.

it's a pretty crazy feeling being like, I'm awake, I haven't taken anything, I feel alright.. Take a shower.. I was just achy, maybe life hurts more then we think. Maybe we lie to ourselves and call any ailments withdrawls.

when you're an addict withdrawls are hell, when to another person with a flu that was the exact same they would have to stick it out and just think they were really sick.