Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ and Megathread v.1; 2007 - 2010

[fallor]

Please Help

I could really use soome advice right now. I ahve been on suboxone for about one year however I do not obtain them from a doctor. I have recently gotten a new job and have decided that I need to create a more stable environment for myself and got to a doctor to be placed on suboxone in a controlled, medical way.

Now I have been reading that you need to be in withdrawal phase during the induction phase with your doctor. My appointment is for tomorrow morning and my question is, (since I does subxone already this afternoon and probably won't be sick in time for tomorrow morning's appointment) will I still be able to be accepted into the program?

I really want to do this for real, and I want to obtain my suboxone from a safe and more importantly, legal source. I hope everyone understands my question/dilemma and I thank you in advance!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I could really use soome advice right now. I ahve been on suboxone for about one year however I do not obtain them from a doctor. I have recently gotten a new job and have decided that I need to create a more stable environment for myself and got to a doctor to be placed on suboxone in a controlled, medical way.

Now I have been reading that you need to be in withdrawal phase during the induction phase with your doctor. My appointment is for tomorrow morning and my question is, (since I does subxone already this afternoon and probably won't be sick in time for tomorrow morning's appointment) will I still be able to be accepted into the program?

I really want to do this for real, and I want to obtain my suboxone from a safe and more importantly, legal source. I hope everyone understands my question/dilemma and I thank you in advance!

-> Suboxone Mega Thread.

Threads pertaining to Suboxone belong in the Suboxone Mega Thread.

I cannot tell whether or not they will give you a Suboxone prescription, you'd have to ask them. You could not take Suboxone for the day before you go in, see if that helps.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

It's almost too easy a situation to be able to use heroin for a few days then go right back on bupe for a few days. I really need to focus on getting back onto bupe entirely and get passed this phase. It certainly is hurting my wallet and isn't helping other things, plus I hate having to keep it a secret from most people in my life and if they found out I would be in a world of shit.

Delete the dealer's number(s) out of your phone, give $ to someone you trust (so they can hold onto it for you for when you need things that aren't heroin). You can also try to "sleep it off" for a few days.

You can also try to remember that you may not be "getting high" instantaneously with Suboxone but what you'll notice first is that you'll feel better in general about living without opiates. There'll be less "lows" that opiates create in ones life, and you'll feel more back to yourself.

Also, buy a bag of weed to keep yourself happy while you're waiting for your opiate tolerance to drop. It may take a while.

" I was first committed to Suboxone maintenance and never touching other opiates again. Then after a few months I started surfing bluelight and discovered you can IV bupe and only need 2-4mg a day and eventually can start to feel high from daily doses. This inspired me to drop my dose down and start messing with needles again."

Captain_Heroin is responsible for this situation by openly advocating IV bupre (ab)use in a "harm reduction" forum. Hahahah, joking of course ... even though we all tend to behave like 5 year olds in the face of addiction ,fact is we are all grown ups who should be accountable for our own actions/choices.

I also try to remember people the ups and downs of various ROA's. For example, though IV always has a higher BA, it also renders the drug's duration shorter than a sublingual dose.

 

[Trigeminal]

CH: You can also try to remember that you may not be "getting high" instantaneously with Suboxone but what you'll notice first is that you'll feel better in general about living without opiates. There'll be less "lows" that opiates create in ones life, and you'll feel more back to yourself.

Dude you're going to have to explain this train of thought to me -- I'm not like trying to call you out or anything but I just honestly don't get why people think taking buprenorphine constitutes a sober and opiate free life. I mean to me this is on the same level as minor heroin addiction. I mean, I'm not stealing shit, withdrawling and overdosing like the old days, but I do have to set aside money specifically for the drugs (bupe) and I don't feel good when I don't take it. I just can't reconcile it as anything other than trading one opiate for another. Again, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything (not sure how this post came across because I'm kind of high right now), just looking to have a discussion about it.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Dude you're going to have to explain this train of thought to me -- I'm not like trying to call you out or anything but I just honestly don't get why people think taking buprenorphine constitutes a sober and opiate free life. I mean to me this is on the same level as minor heroin addiction. I mean, I'm not stealing shit, withdrawling and overdosing like the old days, but I do have to set aside money specifically for the drugs (bupe) and I don't feel good when I don't take it. I just can't reconcile it as anything other than trading one opiate for another. Again, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything (not sure how this post came across because I'm kind of high right now), just looking to have a discussion about it.

Well it depends on how much of it you use.

I don't have any WD symptoms from buprenorphine use (I can go up to 24 hours without it really comfortably), and if I do go longer than 24 hours without it, I only get mild effects from abstaining (like runny eyes/nose, slight tired feeling).

When you use 0.1mg or less of buprenorphine in a dose and don't go over 0.5mg-0.7mg in a day, you'll have to help me see how you call that "trading one opiate for another".

Buprenorphine isn't a full agonist, it's not like trading one opiate for another. If you are deliberately using buprenorphine to get high, and are using large doses of it, then yeah I see your point.

However, going from heroin to Suboxone is essentially like living a sober life. Full agonist opiates are a whole different league than partial agonist opiates like buprenorphine.

You can't "use more" Suboxone to get high, using too much Suboxone is a dysphoric experience. Unless you take enough heroin to overdose and you start experiencing painful OD symptoms like being unable to breathe, feeling your extremities getting cold, etc, then using more heroin only reinforces the cycle of use/abuse.

This isn't to say you can't be addicted to Suboxone, it just isn't likely. I have met someone who liked Suboxone more than heroin, it's just a rare occurrence.

Then again, some people switch from drugs like meth to dexedrine or Adderall so as to live a functional life. Would you say those people are just trading one drug for another? You might if you've never tried meth before, but if you've tried both, you would know what I'm talking about.

 

[Trigeminal]

Buprenorphine isn't a full agonist, it's not like trading one opiate for another. If you are deliberately using buprenorphine to get high, and are using large doses of it, then yeah I see your point.

OK I can see now where my misunderstanding arises from -- you transitioned from heroin to bupe, and have continued to cut down on your bupe since then. I transitioned from heroin to sobriety, and then after a while I started taking bupe not for any type of support but to get high. So I guess in my case, it is trading one opiate for another, whereas the specifics of your situation are definitely different.

When do you think you are going to quit, and is it a goal of yours to ever get completely sober? If you try the responsible, recreational use (the route I took but failed after 1.5 years -- not implying you can't do it) and you end up getting heavy into drugs again, would you consider sobriety at that point? Ha ha I'm not trying to play 20 questions here, but it just interests me to see different life views on different subjects. I guess I have just had it drilled into me over and over again after 4 inpatient rehab experiences that sobriety is the way to go.

Then again, some people switch from drugs like meth to dexedrine or Adderall so as to live a functional life. Would you say those people are just trading one drug for another? You might if you've never tried meth before, but if you've tried both, you would know what I'm talking about.

Done meth (once) but never been addicted to it. Done plenty of Adderall. Back when I was prescribed bupe from a doctor for heroin addiction, it was definitely a step in the right direction, so yeah, when viewed this way I understand. I was just looking at the situation as it pertains to me, something I do a lot, but something that very often paints a cloudy picture of reality.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

My views on "sobriety".

When do you think you are going to quit, and is it a goal of yours to ever get completely sober?

I think I might quit in the next half year-year *possibly*. I have "reserved" lifelong buprenorphine use as a way to avoid relapse, though I don't think I'll need to be on it my whole life.

It's not a goal of mine to be "completely sober", mostly because of the fact that I only had a problem with heroin. "Completely sober" means you don't get high/drunk/buzzed on anything. I'll always use weed and psychedelics.

It is a goal of mine to be "completely sober" from all opiates though. I have done well with this goal thus far (I have avoided using heroin for 15 months now).

If you try the responsible, recreational use (the route I took but failed after 1.5 years -- not implying you can't do it) and you end up getting heavy into drugs again, would you consider sobriety at that point? Ha ha I'm not trying to play 20 questions here, but it just interests me to see different life views on different subjects.

I feel you, I actually enjoy answering your questions because you are using your intelligence to challenge the ideas I'm presenting to you, the smart thing to do. You just want to see how one can think using Suboxone = sobriety when really you're still using a drug. If I were you I'd probably make the same logical argument you did.

I have tried recreational use of opiates after quitting heroin, but only 3 times. Each time, 0 cravings, once the high wore off, I went right back to Suboxone without a problem.

If I ended up getting heavy into drugs again, of course I'd consider sobriety (from opiates). However I only really got "heavy" into using heroin, all other opiates weren't nearly as addictive for me.

I guess I have just had it drilled into me over and over again after 4 inpatient rehab experiences that sobriety is the way to go.

Inpatient rehab is like that, they want you to believe all drugs are bad in any circumstance. I don't really believe most inpatient rehabilitation centers are any good. I could go on and on about this, but I won't.

It's more than apparent to me that drugs are more valuable than sobriety (drugs like marijuana, psychedelics like LSD and mushrooms, etc).

Done meth (once) but never been addicted to it. Done plenty of Adderall. Back when I was prescribed bupe from a doctor for heroin addiction, it was definitely a step in the right direction, so yeah, when viewed this way I understand. I was just looking at the situation as it pertains to me, something I do a lot, but something that very often paints a cloudy picture of reality.

I had meth once in a roll and I had meth (the actual drug, not in a shitty pressed pill) once too. It was a nice experience but I don't particularly like stimulants. The only stimulant I have liked as a psychedelic (as much as other psychedelics), would be MDA.

 

[OPsFORME]

Quick question to all BL's...

I've been on subs for a couple weeks now (24mg/day). The only problem/side-effect I have that's a big issue is that I can't wake up from a good nights sleep, I seriously sleep for 10-13 hours. I will even set 4-5 alarms on my phone n I'll just turn em off then crash again. Is there anything that would help me have a normal sleep schedule and be able to just sleep 6-9 hours? I also get horrible migraines, but that doesn't occur ever day like the sleeping problem does.

Appreciate it brothas
~DJ Play~

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Subutex+Hydroxyzine+Midazolam

Excellent combo!

Quick question to all BL's...

I've been on subs for a couple weeks now (24mg/day). The only problem/side-effect I have that's a big issue is that I can't wake up from a good nights sleep, I seriously sleep for 10-13 hours. I will even set 4-5 alarms on my phone n I'll just turn em off then crash again. Is there anything that would help me have a normal sleep schedule and be able to just sleep 6-9 hours? I also get horrible migraines, but that doesn't occur ever day like the sleeping problem does.

Appreciate it brothas
~DJ Play~

Try using 2mg 3-4x a day instead of 8mg 3x a day.

See if there's any improvement.

You should be able to go from 24mg one day to 16mg the next day to 8mg the next day and there should be a significant reduction in side effects.

Hope that works for you.

I tend to sleep a lot but not every night too, so I have tried a variety of benzos and other hypnotics. My favorites are hydroxyzine (for the H1 antagonist antihistamine class) and IV midazolam, or temazepam, or flurazepam (for hypnotic benzodiazepines). Each of those 3 have their own unique profile which make them better for some nights over others.

I would start with an antihistamine like doxylamine succinate, diphenhydramine hcl, or hydroxyzine hcl. See what that does for you.

 

[Oxymorphone]

Delete the dealer's number(s) out of your phone, give $ to someone you trust (so they can hold onto it for you for when you need things that aren't heroin). You can also try to "sleep it off" for a few days.

You can also try to remember that you may not be "getting high" instantaneously with Suboxone but what you'll notice first is that you'll feel better in general about living without opiates. There'll be less "lows" that opiates create in ones life, and you'll feel more back to yourself.

Also, buy a bag of weed to keep yourself happy while you're waiting for your opiate tolerance to drop. It may take a while.



I also try to remember people the ups and downs of various ROA's. For example, though IV always has a higher BA, it also renders the drug's duration shorter than a sublingual dose.

Yeah good advice. I honestly wish I could use weed for a few months- for what I spend on heroin I could get a few ounces, a nice tube, and chill on it and probably kick the dope. the only problem with that is I used to have a huge pot problem that probably did more harm than heroin did/has. I was growing and spending thousands on weed and paraphernalia and it demotivated me, plus it's easy to detect due to smell and every week there is the potential for a random drug test and pot shows up for 6 weeks which sucks. I haven't touched pot in two years and that's like the one last thing I can hold onto as being sober from like it's something I accomplished. I know it's small and sounds stupid since I have no problem touching coke, dope, and anything else but not weed. I know it would be way better to transition onto it but that's something to struggle with. I really don't want to get into that whole lifestyle again, even though I have matured and been through real hellish drug addiction I'm afraid of what it might do to me and again I would get hell if people found out which would be likely. Shit though this is a tough dilemma since I know it would be best for me.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Yeah good advice. I honestly wish I could use weed for a few months- for what I spend on heroin I could get a few ounces, a nice tube, and chill on it and probably kick the dope. the only problem with that is I used to have a huge pot problem that probably did more harm than heroin did/has. I was growing and spending thousands on weed and paraphernalia and it demotivated me, plus it's easy to detect due to smell and every week there is the potential for a random drug test and pot shows up for 6 weeks which sucks. I haven't touched pot in two years and that's like the one last thing I can hold onto as being sober from like it's something I accomplished. I know it's small and sounds stupid since I have no problem touching coke, dope, and anything else but not weed. I know it would be way better to transition onto it but that's something to struggle with. I really don't want to get into that whole lifestyle again, even though I have matured and been through real hellish drug addiction I'm afraid of what it might do to me and again I would get hell if people found out which would be likely. Shit though this is a tough dilemma since I know it would be best for me.

I gotcha. Well best of luck man, I hope you stay on Suboxone if that's what will help you out the most in life. I really enjoy being on Suboxone now. It's the best medication out there to be on in my opinion.

I'm sure others would disagree.

 

[KnowBudz]

If your motivation for taking suboxone is to stop addictive drug use while working a program of recovery, I've found it to be an excellent tool. If you are looking to control what you see as problem usage, while still getting high, it probably won't make you too happy. It is not a miracle "happy pill", and it cannot "cure" anything.

 

[Oxymorphone]

If your motivation for taking suboxone is to stop addictive drug use while working a program of recovery, I've found it to be an excellent tool. If you are looking to control what you see as problem usage, while still getting high, it probably won't make you too happy. It is not a miracle "happy pill", and it cannot "cure" anything.

Trust me I'm aware. Addiction is a complicated thing and I know it all comes down to my personal decisions and I need to decide to stop for good and use suboxone how it is intended. It worked well helping me with that for a couple months and I know it can again. Right now though I feel great, healthy, and productive when I use and depressed on Suboxone.It's this part that is making stopping difficult since I'm experiencing good from using and shit from not. Trust me I know this isn't sustainable and it doesn't take long for life to go to hell with an opiate addiction, I've been there, the hard part of stopping while you are high on all levels and near any bottom is the prospect of facing life sober and dealing with all responsibilities which include whatever is affecting my state of mind at its core. That prospect scares a lot of people and I can't say I look forward to it either.

 

[KnowBudz]

You bet! The business of changing our lives is not trivial. I was a "switcher" and tried doing things my way for far too long. First time I went through rehab, I saw IV cocaine use as my problem, but insisted on continuing to smoke weed and drink, with the expected results. This went on, new problems arose, and I continued to switch drugs. Trouble is (if you live long enough) you eventually run out of (types) of drugs!

I, of course, tried every variation of "controlled use": the "marijuana recovery program", drug holidays, using only Rx drugs, etc. Things would go OK for awhile, which only kicked up my illusion of control. I also had thoughts of what a drag it would be to spend a lifetime going to AA, or associating with "those losers". This kind of thinking, as well as most of my other practices, had to face a serious overhaul!

 

[fistful_of_needles]

"Trust me I'm aware. Addiction is a complicated thing and I know it all comes down to my personal decisions and I need to decide to stop for good and use suboxone how it is intended. It worked well helping me with that for a couple months and I know it can again. Right now though I feel great, healthy, and productive when I use and depressed on Suboxone.It's this part that is making stopping difficult since I'm experiencing good from using and shit from not. Trust me I know this isn't sustainable and it doesn't take long for life to go to hell with an opiate addiction, I've been there, the hard part of stopping while you are high on all levels and near any bottom is the prospect of facing life sober and dealing with all responsibilities which include whatever is affecting my state of mind at its core. That prospect scares a lot of people and I can't say I look forward to it either."


"Whatever it is that is affecting your state of mind at its core" can be more a consequence of addiction than a cause . During relatively long periods of abstinence (over 1 year) I found out that my personal issues were far more manageable from a sober perspective than from a drugged out one.Needless to say this means jack shit to somebody who is either currentely using or unwillingly withdrawing. In non technical terms opiates basically weaken/drain you giving you the illusion that your problems/issues are far more complex or/and unbearable than they truly are.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Right now though I feel great, healthy, and productive when I use and depressed on Suboxone.

What makes you feel depressed is coming down and withdrawal symptoms. This is attributable to the full agonist which initially makes you feel 'great, healthy, and productive'. The opposite is true when you are lacking it.

If you were to stay on Suboxone for longer than a month or so (by itself), and it still made you "depressed", then maybe you should switch to methadone.

In non technical terms opiates basically weaken/drain you giving you the illusion that your problems/issues are far more complex or/and unbearable than they truly are.

That may be true for some people, but here's how I see it.

Most people who use heroin to dependency and beyond, they have what I have termed "soul pain". They may also be in physical pain (for which heroin is great too), but it's primarily "soul pain" that gets people psychologically addicted to heroin.

For example, if you are using heroin only for pain, you can probably be switched to any other opiate.

If you're using heroin to chase away your pre-existing problems, Vicodin won't work for that.

For myself, I had plenty of life problems that actually were more manageable when I was using heroin. Without heroin my problems were worse. On Suboxone, I have the same "relief" from life problems, but my problems were not a "result" of me using heroin, they were pre-existing for sure.

I know not everyone is like me though, I'm an anomaly in a few different ways.

 

[DangerChamber]

What's the lure of using suboxone?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What's the lure of using suboxone?

The same lure for using any opiate.

Trust me - buprenorphine will make someone who has no opiate tolerance high as a kite.

 

[DangerChamber]

The same lure for using any opiate.

Trust me - buprenorphine will make someone who has no opiate tolerance high as a kite.

Id get some if i knew where to find it.

I live in fucking Florida damnit. I shouldn't have trouble finding any pill

 

[DangerChamber]

And you're right. I have no opiod tolerance whatsoever. 15mg of oxycodone will send me into space