Opioids Sub and oxy

[Not Again]

If you use sub to taper down from oxy ( I know you have to wait at least 24+ hours and it has a higher affinity) Does that mean that it's getting you un addicted to oxy and getting you addicted to the sub? If thats the case at the end of the sub taper

could you use a little oxy to taper from that? Sounds funny but as I understand it the half life of sub is very long and if

you switch to oxy to do say a 3-4 day thing will that be the stupidest thing you could do? Or if you taper fast enough using sub, say 2 weeks will that be short enough to not get dependent on the sub?

It's weird I can do 220 mg of oxy and be ok or I can do 350 mg and have a good time. So it seems like 220 is the lowest point for me now. I have 9 ( 8mg) strips of sub and for some reason I keep finding reasons to put it off.

Every one says CT is better but the last 2 times I did that I was down for a month before I felt like doing anything. I can't afford to lose a month right now. I could maybe lose 3 days.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

You're not understanding psychical dependence correctly. There is no addiction to specific drugs.. you don't get dependnet on heroin, or oxy, or buprenorphine, etc.. You get addicted to opiates, how they impact your receptors which is all in the same way... this is why taking a different opiate from your drug of choice will eliminate your withdrawal symptoms.. if you got addicted just to specific drugs, than methadone and suboxone would not work.

You use drugs like methadone and suboxone because they have a longer half-life and aren't as stimulating on the receptors... this allows you to minimize withdrawal symptoms and get your tolerance down. But at the end of a suboxone taper, you're still addicted to opiates.. just at a much lower level, which in turn makes your withdrawal symptoms much less severe.

 

[Not Again]

You're not understanding psychical dependence correctly. There is no addiction to specific drugs.. you don't get dependnet on heroin, or oxy, or buprenorphine, etc.. You get addicted to opiates, how they impact your receptors which is all in the same way... this is why taking a different opiate from your drug of choice will eliminate your withdrawal symptoms.. if you got addicted just to specific drugs, than methadone and suboxone would not work.

You use drugs like methadone and suboxone because they have a longer half-life and aren't as stimulating on the receptors... this allows you to minimize withdrawal symptoms and get your tolerance down. But at the end of a suboxone taper, you're still addicted to opiates.. just at a much lower level, which in turn makes your withdrawal symptoms much less severe.

Excellent , Thank you!

 

[RedRum OG]

the info above is definitely good. suboxone does not feel like other opiates, aka, you will never feel "high" or any good opiate type feelings, you will simply feel normal, and not go through withdrawals. just dose to avoid withdrawals, do not dose to feel good.

i find that if you find a habit like you do (200-300mg oxy) that you can get by on sublingual 2mg of suboxone 2-3x a day. do that for 2 or 3 days once you find what hold you fine, and then slowly lower the dose to 1.5mg, 1mg, etc while dosing the same amount of times per day.

you can taper as quick or slowly as you want depending on how much pain you can tolerate, but if you have 3 weeks you can do it with relatively little discomfort.

pro advice: the lower the dose, the harder it gets. going from 2mg to 1.5mg isnt much of a difference but going from 1mg to .5mg is a huge one. prepare for this and adjust taper schedule accordingly.

 

[RTrain]

You're not understanding psychical dependence correctly. There is no addiction to specific drugs.. you don't get dependnet on heroin, or oxy, or buprenorphine, etc.. You get addicted to opiates, how they impact your receptors which is all in the same way... this is why taking a different opiate from your drug of choice will eliminate your withdrawal symptoms.. if you got addicted just to specific drugs, than methadone and suboxone would not work.

You use drugs like methadone and suboxone because they have a longer half-life and aren't as stimulating on the receptors... this allows you to minimize withdrawal symptoms and get your tolerance down. But at the end of a suboxone taper, you're still addicted to opiates.. just at a much lower level, which in turn makes your withdrawal symptoms much less severe.

Where were you to explain this to the idiot who made a thread about not understanding the benefits of methadone maintenance for heroin users because, as he wrote, you are now just addicted to 2 drugs instead of 1. Him being a guy who had little experience with opiates and justified his opinion with him having a weekend cocaine habit.

the info above is definitely good. suboxone does not feel like other opiates, aka, you will never feel "high" or any good opiate type feelings, you will simply feel normal, and not go through withdrawals. just dose to avoid withdrawals, do not dose to feel good.

I am sorry I have to disagree with this. I have used Suboxone a good amount and can say you are definitely feeling the effects of an opiate high. It provides me with mild warmth, antidepressant properties, energy, desire for sweet foods. All results of being on an opioid medication. Are you going to nod off the stuff or get be scratching yourself for an hour straight? no. But I'd say its far from not at all being on an opioid. If your idea of normal is how you feel when your dose has worn off and you are craving another hit, but are not sick because you still have some oxy left in your system, then yeah I guess it makes you feel normal.

 

[milagro]

You're not understanding psychical dependence correctly. There is no addiction to specific drugs.. you don't get dependnet on heroin, or oxy, or buprenorphine, etc.. You get addicted to opiates, how they impact your receptors which is all in the same way... this is why taking a different opiate from your drug of choice will eliminate your withdrawal symptoms.. if you got addicted just to specific drugs, than methadone and suboxone would not work.

You use drugs like methadone and suboxone because they have a longer half-life and aren't as stimulating on the receptors... this allows you to minimize withdrawal symptoms and get your tolerance down. But at the end of a suboxone taper, you're still addicted to opiates.. just at a much lower level, which in turn makes your withdrawal symptoms much less severe.

I just felt like weighing in here. Addiction and dependency ARE DIFFERENT. Addiction is psychological and is manifested in behavior while dependency is a physical need for a substance see one example http://health.howstuffworks.com/mental-health/addiction-v-dependence-on-pain-medications.htm .

I am a chronic pain patient and their is no doubt I have a dependency issue. I know what was meant by the statement I quoted but it can be misleading. I just get in a funk when I hear addiction and dependency being misinterpreted and misunderstood.

I take buprenorphine for chronic pain and I am definitely dependent on it meaning that if I were to stop taking it I would experience some pretty severe medical problems. However, I do not buy it on the streets, steal it, or misuse it(snorting, injecting). A person addicted to the substance probably would exhibit one of these behavioral traits.

I fully understand the quote from "MR Sca", I would just like to see more posts offer a distinct clarification between 'addiction' and 'dependency' which I believe you were trying to offer.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Where were you to explain this to the idiot who made a thread about not understanding the benefits of methadone maintenance for heroin users because, as he wrote, you are now just addicted to 2 drugs instead of 1. Him being a guy who had little experience with opiates and justified his opinion with him having a weekend cocaine habit.

I'm pretty sure I responded to that thread too. We get this kind of question a lot because a lot of people don't have a real grasp on what dependency is and how it works.

I just felt like weighing in here. Addiction and dependency ARE DIFFERENT. Addiction is psychological and is manifested in behavior while dependency is a physical need for a substance see one example http://health.howstuffworks.com/mental-health/addiction-v-dependence-on-pain-medications.htm .

I am a chronic pain patient and their is no doubt I have a dependency issue. I know what was meant by the statement I quoted but it can be misleading. I just get in a funk when I hear addiction and dependency being misinterpreted and misunderstood.

I take buprenorphine for chronic pain and I am definitely dependent on it meaning that if I were to stop taking it I would experience some pretty severe medical problems. However, I do not buy it on the streets, steal it, or misuse it(snorting, injecting). A person addicted to the substance probably would exhibit one of these behavioral traits.

I fully understand the quote from "MR Sca", I would just like to see more posts offer a distinct clarification between 'addiction' and 'dependency' which I believe you were trying to offer.

In the context of this thread... I think it was pretty clear I was talking about dependency, which is also an addiction.. a psychical one. The psychological aspect of addiction is not what this thread is about, hence why I didn't bring it up.

Thanks.

 

[RTrain]

^Indeed you did, and multiple times at that.

 

[Not Again]

Lots of great info, thank you all.

My first statement was kinda leaning toward this. If I can taper down with sub and sub has a longer wd period. After achieving the taper i wanted could I go back to oxy for 2-3 days at a much lower level to make any wd's shorter? Does that make any sense.

I kow if you take Sub while on oxy you get messed up. But if you take oxy while on sub that doesn't happen, right?

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Going back to oxy after sub would be a huge mistake, even for only a couple days. All you'll end up doing is shooting your tolerance up, not down, thus ending up with worse withdrawals and potentially having to taper all over again.

Get on the suboxone, ween down to as low as a level as possible, then just stop. The withdrawals last longer than they do for drugs like oxy and heroin, but they are also much milder and are totally bearable.

There is no painless way to be free of drugs... it just doesn't work that way. You're going to have to suffer a little bit.. but with the suboxone, at least it will be manageable.