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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet
Stimulants of the Future
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izo
Bluelighter
but isnt bzp sheduled in the country from where they are sold?
any theories on the effects when replacing the fluoro in 4-fluoro-amphetamine with a trifluoromethyl group? the only stimulant i know which contains a CF3 group is fenfluoramine (aka 3-trifluoromethyl,n-ethylamphetamine).
any theories on the effects when replacing the fluoro in 4-fluoro-amphetamine with a trifluoromethyl group? the only stimulant i know which contains a CF3 group is fenfluoramine (aka 3-trifluoromethyl,n-ethylamphetamine).
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
'Benzylpiperidine' witthout the qualifying '2-' before it is almost gauranteed to be BZP rather than 2-benzylpiperidine for the simple fact that it's piss simple to synth BZP wheras 2-benzylpiperidine is a little more complex & involved. Besides the reported 200mg/dose just seems way too high for what you'd expect from SAR studies (should be somewhere in the 5-50mg range unless something really weird is happening like MAO inhibition). The corresponding compound where one of the benzyl carbon hydrogen atoms is replaced by a phenyl group is active in the 2-5 mg range and methylphenidate & levacetoperane (methylphenidate reversed ester) are both active 10-20mg.
Odd on bet the name benzylpiperidine was intended to introduce ambiguity so that people might think they are getting something 'new & improved' and not a crappy drug already known about
Odd on bet the name benzylpiperidine was intended to introduce ambiguity so that people might think they are getting something 'new & improved' and not a crappy drug already known about
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
^ Didn't read that - now that you've said that though, it's patently obvious. 2-benzylpiperidine only has 1 nitrogen atom that can be protonated whereas 1-benzylpiperazine (BZP) has two ans as such forms dihydrochkirides
haribo1
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F&B: I see the medical dosage of pipradrol is 2mg, what dose-range are you trying? I noticed another relative, diphenyl-2-piperadylcarbinol. Any details on that one? Would the freebase of your desoxypipradrol be smokable? I know methamphetamine salts are smoked but I've not heard of amphetamine being smoked. Your product had a secondary amine so I would think it smokable? Changing one of those benzene rings to a cyclohexane ring would be interesting as would making the piperidine to a pyrrolidine. Lots of room for fun there.
Pity it has such a long action. One would think it pretty cheap to make. Is it like U4euh? at 50mg smoked, I found it an EXCELLENT drug for work. It's also really popular in Isreal of all places. I'm now seriously studying p-F aminorex. Finding the precursor is a bit of a bitch, but it would be legal and from what I've heard about plain aminorex, it's an excellent high at 40mg (it's more speedy than U4euh & 4 x stronger). Any comments on that one?
Lastly, I'm now fixated on fencamfamine. I would be fascinated to see what the methyl analog would be like. Likely to be more speedy BUT since it's mode of action is different to plain speed, you might well lose the 'magic'...
Pity it has such a long action. One would think it pretty cheap to make. Is it like U4euh? at 50mg smoked, I found it an EXCELLENT drug for work. It's also really popular in Isreal of all places. I'm now seriously studying p-F aminorex. Finding the precursor is a bit of a bitch, but it would be legal and from what I've heard about plain aminorex, it's an excellent high at 40mg (it's more speedy than U4euh & 4 x stronger). Any comments on that one?
Lastly, I'm now fixated on fencamfamine. I would be fascinated to see what the methyl analog would be like. Likely to be more speedy BUT since it's mode of action is different to plain speed, you might well lose the 'magic'...
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
That is pipradrol - did you mean the pyrrolidine derivative?
As for the desoxypipradrol, it's a weird one in the sense yjat there's no decernable physical aspect with which to judge your level of intoxication - it is all 'in your head'. From one perspective, that's ideal as it's the physical impact on the body that makes most stimulants less than ideal, but it also means that you're inclined to up the dose of desoxypipradro; until you get a physical marker to judge things with, as I found out at a friends birthday party on Sat; got really out of it and ended up consuming nearly 30mg in one night. A couple of friends who had 10mg didn't sleep 'till last night - funnily I slept OK, but I don't seem to have a 'normal' reaction to stimulants, possibly something to do with having manic-depression (not bad, just hypomanic when on an upswing, but it means that I go through moments worse than any stimulant comedown without a drug being anywhere near my body. In comparison, stimulant comedowns have never bothered me much at all).
It probably would ber smokable as the freebase, but for me, smoking is a route of last resort so I've never had any inclination to find out. I have tried IM route with 10mg and due to the lack of the physical aspect, there's no rush as such, just a rapid sense of clarity (thinking back to my first encounter with it, maybe a touch of megalomania considering I described my state as ready to march imto Poland!). I think replacing a phenyl group with a cyclohexyl would be a step in the wrong direction (just a hunch), but it might be OK with a 2-thienyl group as a replacement.
The pyrrolidine version of pipradrol diphenyl(2-pyrrolidyl)methanol is used as an optical resolving agent and is a reasonable CNS stimulant (best to use the R isomer as it's the most active) and works well at about 20mg which is a huge drop in potency compared with pipradrol (but it's still reasonably potent, so it's worth trying!). The best thing about desoxypipradrol is the total lack of anorectic activity. Quite literally you can have your cake & eat it!
A friend who produced some p-fluoro 4-MAR said that although the first time was excellent and that it had some entactogenic activity, subsequent usage became more & more troublesome so that eventually he just stopped using it altogether- that doesn't sound good to me at all.
Fencamfamine acts by causing efflux as well as inhibiting reuptake, so essentially it does have the same mechanism as amphetamine. Taking that into account and comparing the effects of N-ethylamphetamine with methamphetamine, I'd guess that the N-methyl derivative would be a more active stimulant, but that you;d have a lot more physical/peripheral CNS mediated effects as N-ethylamphetamine is a joy - it's not as potent as meth (~ on a par with amphetamine dose wise), but has less tachycardia etc than either amphet or it's big brother (personally I'd rate it the best of the simple amphetamine derivatives, but maybe that's just me!)
haribo1
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Thats the analog I'm thinking of.
Shame that p-F AR doesn't sound like a winner. Both aminorex & U4euh are excellent. aminorex is better than speed & u4euh sounds a lot like desoxypipradrol to me. I felt very little stimulation, just clarity.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Ah, right. I've got some info on it (somewhere on a hard drive - but protected by the grat god fuckknows - as in fuckknows where it is ), but from memory it's a fairly potent stimulant of the same type I believe
), but from memory it's a fairly potent stimulant of the same type I believe
Survival0200
Bluelighter
How much of fencamfamine would be a reasonable "recreational" dose? And how much fencamfamine can you take in the form of Reactivan(R), without taking too much of those vitamins?
Survival0200 said:
eating 60 mg of the hydrochloride seemed about right. lower doses don't seem to be worth it. depends on individual chemistry.
as for how much Reactivan before ODing on vitamins, I have no idea. I wasn't aware that Reactivan was available any more in Europe or US. last time I looked it was still available OTC in South Africa
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
I found that 30-40mg was enough fencamfamine for me to be 'as happy as a pig in shit', but due to its very low body load impact, the dose vector suggested shouldn't pose any sort of problem (unless you're a bit loose in the head and don't get on well with other stimulants). Via the IM route, 25mg produced galloping megalomania (of the fun type) where no-one can get a word in edgeways for a good 2-3 hours.
I don't know about the safety limit with Reactivan as the fencamfamine I used was from a chemical supplier (many many years ago, before it was reintroduced to the MoDA in the mid 80's), but the most toxic vitamins are the fat soluble ones (A, D & to a certain extent E) and I think Reactivan only containd B vit complex (but you still have to use some common sense with them).
Another product that used to be next to Reactivan (ie mixed with a shitload of vitamins) was prolintane, but I can't remember the product name. Prolintane is an unusual stimulant in that it's reckoned to actually increase appetite! In appearance, it's a bit similar to MDPV, only there's no methylenedioxy ring and the beta keto is reduced to 2 hydrogen (similar to the difference between methcathinone & methamphetamine). It was indicated for the same conditions that Reactivan was - is this product (prolintane & vitamins) still available anywhere in the world these days?
I don't know about the safety limit with Reactivan as the fencamfamine I used was from a chemical supplier (many many years ago, before it was reintroduced to the MoDA in the mid 80's), but the most toxic vitamins are the fat soluble ones (A, D & to a certain extent E) and I think Reactivan only containd B vit complex (but you still have to use some common sense with them).
Another product that used to be next to Reactivan (ie mixed with a shitload of vitamins) was prolintane, but I can't remember the product name. Prolintane is an unusual stimulant in that it's reckoned to actually increase appetite! In appearance, it's a bit similar to MDPV, only there's no methylenedioxy ring and the beta keto is reduced to 2 hydrogen (similar to the difference between methcathinone & methamphetamine). It was indicated for the same conditions that Reactivan was - is this product (prolintane & vitamins) still available anywhere in the world these days?
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
^ No, there's a world of difference, both in chemical structure and subjective effects; 1-phenyl-2-(N-methylamino)-1-butanone has noticable physical effects (body load ), which make it much easier to guage an ideal dose for yourself. Also it has a much shorter duration of action compared to desoxypipradrol. It might even have a slightly different mechanism of action (it could cause efflux as well as being a reuptake inhibitor) - I don't know a great deal about the minutae of its pharmacology.
On the other hand, I still don't have a good measure of desoxypipradrol due to its almost complete absence of physical effects (body load) & that's after quite a few doses of varying sizes (2mg - 25mg). All I can be definite about so far is that it is a very effective stimulant that produces a state of clarity that you simply don't get from any of the amphetamines, and has a bloody long duration of action. Even a 20mg IM dose didn't produce what I'd call any sort of noticable rush (again people look for a physical conformation of a rush occuring), but it did cause me to go from half asleep to fully awake with good clarity of thought within 2 minutes. Once the clarity stage is achieved, then you get a continuous climb in mood to a point of exquisite euphoria about 20 mins after the IM administration. This lasts a long time (15+ hours for 20mg IM) before tailing off gradually with seemingly little crash other than that caused by lack of sleep (IMed at 10:30am and still didn't sleep that night).
On top of that, the phenylbutanone has a fair amount of anorectic activity which I personally would rather be a lot less (I like eating far too much!); desoxypipradrol OTOH has effectively zero anorectic activity, so you could use it as a pick me up before going to a restaurant without buggering up the meal (although signs of anorectic activity were begining to show with the 20mg IM dose, but with hindsight, that's a bit excessive dosing regeime!).
If you're asking if I had a choice between 1g of desoxypipradrol & 1g (or even 10g) of 1-phenyl-2-(N-methylamino)-1-butanone, I can say that it'd be the desoxypipradrol every time, but I think your average speed freak would choose the other way as the former has no real descernable rush (well not so far into my experiments with it) whereas the latter will definitely produce the rush they are looking for.
Unlike fans of meth, I like stimulants for the ability to function with a clear head for prolonged periods and the long term mood lift whereas for meth freaks it seems to be all about the rush on initial administration (and thank god for that, as it might keep desoxypipradrol below the radar a lot longer if it's not popular with people who verge on self-destructive stimulanrt use)
On the other hand, I still don't have a good measure of desoxypipradrol due to its almost complete absence of physical effects (body load) & that's after quite a few doses of varying sizes (2mg - 25mg). All I can be definite about so far is that it is a very effective stimulant that produces a state of clarity that you simply don't get from any of the amphetamines, and has a bloody long duration of action. Even a 20mg IM dose didn't produce what I'd call any sort of noticable rush (again people look for a physical conformation of a rush occuring), but it did cause me to go from half asleep to fully awake with good clarity of thought within 2 minutes. Once the clarity stage is achieved, then you get a continuous climb in mood to a point of exquisite euphoria about 20 mins after the IM administration. This lasts a long time (15+ hours for 20mg IM) before tailing off gradually with seemingly little crash other than that caused by lack of sleep (IMed at 10:30am and still didn't sleep that night).
On top of that, the phenylbutanone has a fair amount of anorectic activity which I personally would rather be a lot less (I like eating far too much!); desoxypipradrol OTOH has effectively zero anorectic activity, so you could use it as a pick me up before going to a restaurant without buggering up the meal (although signs of anorectic activity were begining to show with the 20mg IM dose, but with hindsight, that's a bit excessive dosing regeime!).
If you're asking if I had a choice between 1g of desoxypipradrol & 1g (or even 10g) of 1-phenyl-2-(N-methylamino)-1-butanone, I can say that it'd be the desoxypipradrol every time, but I think your average speed freak would choose the other way as the former has no real descernable rush (well not so far into my experiments with it) whereas the latter will definitely produce the rush they are looking for.
Unlike fans of meth, I like stimulants for the ability to function with a clear head for prolonged periods and the long term mood lift whereas for meth freaks it seems to be all about the rush on initial administration (and thank god for that, as it might keep desoxypipradrol below the radar a lot longer if it's not popular with people who verge on self-destructive stimulanrt use)
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
^ Does 4-MAR not produce any sort of rush either? I was under the impression that it did of sorts (I will get to try the bloody stuff eventually - all these false starts, etc is just making me more & more curious!)
Survival0200
Bluelighter
The product name was Catovit® and it was manufactured by Boehringer Ingelheim. Where I live (Finland), the tablet form of it was discontinued in 1991. It was also available as a mixture, until 1982. The both forms were approved for sale in 1967, here.fastandbulbous said:
Catovit® tablets had 10 mg prolintane each and the Catovit® mixture had 0,75 mg prolintane / mL.
According to my books, prolintane doesn't have any addiction potential.
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fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
I've seen that said about so many drugs in medicinal use that turned out to be just the opposite. Drug company PR so that their product will be widely prescribed. How long did DmithKline Beecham say Paroxitine isn't habit forming?
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