Misc Stimulants and happienss

[Mycophile]

I read about it being used to potentiate Kratom and other opiates. There's an old thread about it here. Some take huge doses of DLPA as a substitute for Adderall but it only peaks for about 30 minutes.

What is DLPA?

Is that Pheneylanine?

Also, I heard that Hordenine potentiates it and makes the peak last longer but is a mild MAOI and I'm not supposed to take MAOIs with my SSRI but I've heard it CAN be ok if the dosage is VERY low or the MAOI is weak which Hordenine is said to be.

Have you ever used Hordenine and how do you like it?

Do you think it can be safely mixed with an SSRI?

Thanks

 

[Rio Fantastic]

My friend you are absolutely right. You probably suffer from the same thing as I do, and many other addicts. D1 dopamine deficiency disorder. It was only recently discovered and hard to diagnose. But basically exactly what you are describing is caused by the fact that we do not get the proper flow of happy chemicals in the brain. This also causes other neuro-chems to try to compensate for the lack of dopamine so it sends the whole system out of whack. Having just began studying it they are becoming aware that it is brutal and will almost inexorably lead to addiction.

If a person with this problem tried any chemical that adjusts those levels the brain IMMEDIATELY says "oh hey, THAT is what we have been looking for!" It turns on the pathways for addiction right there as opposed to others who have to work at it for a long time to really create the need for drugs in their brain. So that is to say it can happen either genetically or environmentally but they now believe this is the reason for addiction and the old cliche that addiction is like diabetes is even more true than we could have ever imagined.

The scariest part about it is that the only way to really tell someone has it is if they have an innate internal desire from the day that they can make memories to try drugs and alcohol. Somehow the brain knows it is not functioning properly and once you figure out that drugs can change the way it works you immediately begin to seek them. That is why back in the day during red ribbon week my mind was like a fucking heat seeking missile, the very first time I heard about drugs and what they did something clicked in my brain and I began to actively search for drugs. That is why in fifth grade I could be found in the projects (a 12 year old white kid in the projects) granted it was in Gainesville, FL so not really the most dangerous projects on earth compelled to find some weed with a couple friends in toe who were not sure about the whole thing. They were not sure all the way up until we were high.

That is how I knew there was a difference I was locked on, it was my mission to find it and nothing was going to stop me. Once I did there was NO turning back. Now I am on medications that help to mitigate that problem. But realize you might have this and it will make the process of sobriety a mother fucker for you. If it were not for my lower spine being a wreck I would not even be on pain meds, though I do not allow myself to take anything other than methadone, I tried the subutex road for nearly a year and the pain was just too real to handle. If you followed my posts since I made my big comeback to bluelight after getting out of the army you know that I tried with every ounce of my soul not to switch to methadone but now that I have I have to be honest in that it completely takes away any and all cravings for opiates and bring my pain down to a 2 or 3 when I was on subutex it was a daily 6-8 depending on the day.

Without ANY pain meds it is a 9.5 all day. I only say 9.5 because I save 10 for pain where I can not move. I use a different scale for acute pain AKA I fell out of an airplane and I just mushed my spine, broke my leg, and hit my head really hard that one goes up to 20. I feel like there is the pain that you live with on a daily basis, and then there is the pain that CAUSED that pain to happen, which is why I keep two different pain scales in my head. But ya that is my take on it.

Can you provide any sources for any of these assertions? I know a lower level of dopamine has been implied in ADHD, but I have never heard of "D1 deficiency disorder", and a google search reveals nothing. I have heard of a certain subtype of the gene coding for D1 leading to a lower receptor density, but that has only been linked to higher levels of novelty-seeking and extroversion, and is not considered a clinical deficiency. Can you please tell me where you heard this?

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Drugs make me happy too!

Determining what is "run of the mill" happiness for sober people seems extremely difficult. People's baseline moods vary widely and it's really impossible to say if your moods are "normal" or not.

Sober life seems boring to you because it IS boring, and moments of happiness seem fleeting because they ARE fleeting. That's what I've learned over the course of my life.

True, peak experiences that drugs recreate are indeed few and far between when living a sober life, but that doesn't mean sober life has to be boring. The vast majority of people manage to find satisfaction, pleasure and contentment in their lives without being fucked up all the time, clinical disorders nonwithstanding.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

mad dash i never really thought much about it in that way but youre 100% spot on about always being so curious as a kid before even knowing what it really was, i dont think i even knew how people could use drugs. like smoking anything other than a cigarette just never registered but that desire to find out what the end result was like to experience, which was getting fucked up and having a blast, was subconiously there it seems. now i dont remember a day in which i didnt "medicate" within 10 minutes of being awake in some form, its literally just set in stone. i dont even need much at all, ive had days where a couple mini-thins would give me the boost i needed but its literally always something to either boost me up or force me to go to sleep, and force is needed to say the least. people like what mad dash & theOP described hopefully can be fixed because i fear a life time ahead of not being able to fix myself which will undoubtedly directly result in dying prematurely, its already most likely predisposed some terrible shit when i get old anyway so its not going to be bliss even if i do get normal and boring, which at this point sounds appealing in so many ways. but ill get sober/clean out my system and then just feel the need to reward myself for the hard work in cleansing my body and taking steps to get better...with getting high. maybe we can fix our brains someday if we can keep advancing in science at a rapid pace but probably not. not sure how many more bouts i can win quite frankly before the flood gates give way, its becoming too close for comfort. its scary being genuinely unsure

Unless I see some concrete proof, I suspect this "d1 deficiency disorder" is just a self-fulfilling prophecy to give some kind of legitimacy to getting high all the time. I too had a strong, strong interest in all drugs from the age of 14, far before any of my peer group, because I'm a thrill-seeker. This is a normal trait, not an excuse to perpetuate drug addiction and an unhealthy lifestyle. Can I ask what drugs you've been "on"?

 

[Doctor.K]

Unless I see some concrete proof, I suspect this "d1 deficiency disorder" is just a self-fulfilling prophecy to give some kind of legitimacy to getting high all the time. I too had a strong, strong interest in all drugs from the age of 14, far before any of my peer group, because I'm a thrill-seeker. This is a normal trait, not an excuse to perpetuate drug addiction and an unhealthy lifestyle. Can I ask what drugs you've been "on"?

While this is likely in this case, I would definitely see this as an area that could use some research. It is really easy for an addict to say "oh yeah, I need oxy's, I have D1 Defiencey Disorder", but at the same time this could be a possibility.

And to answer a question asked by the op, "If there is a population more predisposed to opiate or depressant use.", I believe I would fall under that category (and I'm sure you know there are) and I'm sure many others do as well

 

[infectedmushroom]

My parents are hardcore stim addicts. If they don't get in atleast 2 cups of tea a day, they get grumpy!

 

[Doctor.K]

There is also some information about time perception and Dopamine.

This is an excerpt from Wikipedia-

~Stimulants produce overestimates of time duration, whereas depressants and anesthetics produce underestimates of time duration.
Psychoactive drugs can alter the judgement of time. These include traditional psychedelics such as LSD, psilocybin, and mescaline as well as the dissociative class of psychedelics such as PCP, ketamine and dextromethorphan. At higher doses time may appear to slow down, speed up or seem out of sequence. In a 2007 study, psilocybin was found to significantly impair the ability to reproduce interval durations longer than 2.5 seconds, significantly impair synchronizing motor actions (taps on a computer keyboard) to regularly occurring tones, and impair the ability to keep tempo when asked to tap on a key at a self-paced but consistent interval.^{[46][unreliable medical source]} In 1955, British MP Christopher Mayhew took mescaline hydrochloride in an experiment under the guidance of his friend, Dr Humphry Osmond. On the BBC documentary The Beyond Within, he described that half a dozen times during the experiment, he had "a period of time that didn't end for [him]".^{[citation needed]}
Stimulants can lead both humans and rats to overestimate time intervals,^[47][48] while depressants can have the opposite effect.^[49] The level of activity in the brain of neurotransmitters such as dopamine and norepinephrine may be the reason for this.^[50] Dopamine has a particularly strong connection with one's perception of time. Drugs that activate dopamine receptors speed up one's perception of time, while dopamine antagonists cause one to feel that time is passing slowly.^[5]

This has been an area of research that I'm really fond of because when I'm not high TIME GOES BY SO SLOWLY its almost agonizing, you can theoretically equate this to having a dopamine deficiency or AKA ADHD/ADD. So theres definitely something going on here that needs more research. When I get the opportunity I will certainly research this myself, but that may be years in the future. I'd like to hear you guys feedback because I feel a lot of people on this site have or has had the same problem. (Thus drug use/ and addiction)

Another thing, I do not respond to Adderall/amphetamine the way that people who have ADHD "claim" that it works, even though as a child I was diagnosed as this. They say it doesn't make them "tweak" but makes them feel normal. For me, even 5mg of Adderall IR will have me tweaking balls, and I never understood this? And the side effects/comedown are awful. My personal preference of drugs are depressants (opiates, benzos, cannabis, even disassociatives ) and psychedelics (even psychedelic amphetamines).

I'd like to hear some more responses from you all out there about this.

(Actually thought this was another thread, but we'll see where it goes. Unless it can be made into its own.)

 

[Ninae]

To be honest, I think with chocklate it's mostly the sugar and fat that gives a temporary mood-lift (and the taste). I have some organic cocoa powder but all it does is give me an annoying caffeiney feel. I guess it depends how much you like caffeine.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

To be honest, I think with chocklate it's mostly the sugar and fat that gives a temporary mood-lift (and the taste). I have some organic cocoa powder but all it does is give me an annoying caffeiney feel. I guess it depends how much you like caffeine.

I have a sneaking feeling there's some subtext to this post that I'm missing. I feel that you're trying to raise some kind of subtle point here, that you're getting at something in a non-obvious fashion. Would you mind elaborating

 

[Ninae]

No, that was pretty literal. I just feel caffeinated so whatever else doesn't really show up. And chocolate is mostly sugar and fat.

Amino acids are 100 times better.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

No, that was pretty literal. I just feel caffeinated so whatever else doesn't really show up. And chocolate is mostly sugar and fat.

Amino acids are 100 times better.

Sorry but would you care to elaborate a little? I don't see what you're getting at, unless are you trying to make a point about natural highs from substances like theobromine vs artifical manufactured highs?

 

[Lady Codone]

I've used stimulants (various) almost daily for 14 years. They definitely bring my baseline level of energy and happiness up to a level where I can function, but I still require antidepressants and therapy.

Most people who use stims regularly develop tolerance and have to keep increasing the dose, which will only end in horrific dysphoria...worse than any you've felt off drugs. There's definitely a ceiling effect with things like amphetamine. If you have a history of drug abuse it's a dangerous idea to be toying with a potentially addictive drug, especially for the purpose of making yourself "happy".

As for the "something missing in your brain," that's absolutely possible. But trying to fix it by experimenting with drugs willy-nilly is not the answer. Stick to the chocolate and maybe some coffee every now and again. Exercise is a great high for me too. Nothing better than some hard-won endorphins

 

[Ninae]

I don't think you can talk about "highs" with either. I just meant what is best for your overall well-being. But I hate stimulants (especially the toxic type).

DLPA might be more interesting to me if I actually liked stimulants. It has a very short, speedy euphoria. I want to try the the L- version that only works on endorphins.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

I don't think you can talk about "highs" with either. I just meant what is best for your overall well-being. But I hate stimulants (especially the toxic type).

DLPA might be more interesting to me if I actually liked stimulants. It has a very short, speedy euphoria. I want to try the the L- version that only works on endorphins.

Is English your first language? I understand all the words you've used individually, but the way you phase it is making it really difficult to tease out the meaning of what you're trying to say. Sorry about this, but would you mind just trying to explain your core, fundamental point here so I can understand what you're getting at, because whatever it is sounds fascinating and I wish I was getting it.

 

[Ninae]

Phenylethylamine comes as DLPA and L-Phenylethylamine. DLPA is more common and acts on both endorphins and dopamine (turns into Tyrosine). I find this gives a good mood-lift but is a bit stressful for me as I have too much adrenaline.

So I want to see what it's like without Tyrosine.

 

[Doctor.K]

No, that was pretty literal. I just feel caffeinated so whatever else doesn't really show up. And chocolate is mostly sugar and fat.

Amino acids are 100 times better.

Totally with you there Ninae, I am in LOVE with milk I go through 3 quarts a day and having that sustained amino acid (tryptophan in particular) release feels great not to mention the Casein and Casomorphins, and frankly its addicting to me. I'd prefer a few drinks of whole milk over a few drinks of alcohol on pretty much any day lol. I as well do note like stimulants (unless its psychedelics) (or Tramadol but even then Tramadol is "eh" as a stim).

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Totally with you there Ninae, I am in LOVE with milk I go through 3 quarts a day and having that sustained amino acid (tryptophan in particular) release feels great not to mention the Casein and Casomorphins, and frankly its addicting to me. I'd prefer a few drinks of whole milk over a few drinks of alcohol on pretty much any day lol. I as well do note like stimulants (unless its psychedelics) (or Tramadol but even then Tramadol is "eh" as a stim).

The placebo effect in action, folks!

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Phenylethylamine comes as DLPA and L-Phenylethylamine. DLPA is more common and acts on both endorphins and dopamine (turns into Tyrosine). I find this gives a good mood-lift but is a bit stressful for me as I have too much adrenaline.

So I want to see what it's like without Tyrosine.

What do you mean? What are you getting at here?

 

[Ninae]

I think you're onto something with the milk there. The good fats are stabilising as well. Although I was talking about protein pills.

 

[SluttyPeach]

Interesting post. I've always figured that clinical depression was what played a role in addiction combined with thrill seeking behavior.

As a child I was diagnosed with ADHD and depression.. They put me on methylphenidate and fluvoxamine when I was SEVEN because I was inattentive/impulsive and engaging in self harm. Keep in mind this was in the 90s long before the whole "emo" fad made cutting oneself trendy..

Fast forward a few years and I was smoking meth. Big surprise there right? Well, nobody ever told me but I believe that depression or any other chemical imbalance certainly does make you more prone to addiction, regardless of whether or not there's a name for it. Seems pretty simple to understand although the condition itself is much more complicated.

I'm sure we have all encountered the chipper, energetic "morning person" at some point. Perhaps their baseline mood is higher than the average persons? Then there are those who are like us, the depressive/blah types. Like fingerprints, no two people have the same neurological layout. Just like with personalities.. Some are similar but never exactly the same. The brain is a fascinating organ I tell ya..

Also, I wonder how nature vs nurture plays into this exactly? They say addiction runs in families but it's gotta be more than just genetics.