Stim addiction, can your brain come back?

[MrsGamp]

For about 3 years I've been using Dex - much larger quantities last 6 months.

I'm thinking about quitting but find it so hard to function without them ... Just dead, numb, not interested in anything.

I know YouTube ain't exactly most credible source of info, but have watched couple of frightening videos on subject of Dex addiction - the theme being that even if you quit, your brain is permanently impacted and the "zombie" feeling never goes away, or not entirely.

I'm really frightened by this idea!

I could put up with the WDs and depression if there was hope they'd pass, or at least improve ... But permanent dopamine issues etc ?

I'd feel as good as dead if it was forever.

Sorry if this is a bit rambly - not on Dex today, recovering from binge. The idea of quitting (and those YouTube docs!) has spooked me and have had a few drinks ...(an issue in itself for me).

Any feed back from anyone who's kicked any sort of stim habit would be welcome...

 

[Tubbs]

Yeah, you can definitely bounce back... I've used meth on and off for about 8 years, very heavily every day from early 2015- late 2017, been clean a good while now, not sure how long really.... but you definitely bounce back. It just takes some time and putting your focus into something else.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I believe your brain can recover in terms of your emotions and affective responses to things even after heavy stim abuse - but ‘heavy’ is very rubbery term in this context. After a six month IV coke addiction it took about a year for me to feel I was getting back to the ‘real me’ but after a subsequent six month IV meth addiction it only took about six months. These were very intensive almost daily habits and in both cases my recovery was aided partly by anti-psychotics but also by intensely working on learning techniques of Mindfullness and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy that I was introduced to in rehab. They are individualised techniques very very different to Group.

That said, I think cognitive impairment from stim abuse is potentially much longer lasting. I strongly feel that my general IQ and working memory have not recovered from this period in my life even after a period of five years totally sober. However, Around that time I also had 12 sessions of Electroconvulsive Therapy that may have impacted my memory and cognition.

To be honest, although I totally accept and respect the level of problem stims are causing you, your level of dexie abuse does not seem to be huge compared to what I have seen people on street speed and street meth and street coke recover from. Judging from your posts and your writing, you seem in pretty good shape cognitively and your emotions likely just need a period clear of being banged about by dexies on one hand and booze on the other. I wonder if what you are going through feelings-wise might be just as much the alcohol as the amps.

Speaking from bitter experience, I know that if you can crack a week or two off stims (and ideally booze) you will definitely feel an uplift. But those two weeks can be torturous in terms of your emotions and your cravings. I find it very difficult to achieve very often at present. Perhaps you need to consult a doctor for medication to get you over the hump - having read (or at least skimmed) many of the scientific papers addressing antipsychotic treatment for amphetamine addiction, and based on my own subjective experiments, a short course of an atypical antipsychotic may help you get from where you are now to feeling more capable of managing your recovery or at least getting a clear perspective on how you are really travelling.

Good luck @MrsGamp - you are a wonderfully interesting person and a delight to have around BL - I know you can get through this with patience, fortitude, the right meds and an understanding doctor. If you want to discuss stim recovery offline or want to unload on how hard things are feel free to DM me - I’ll probably be awake myself.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

You can recover and come back. It took me over two years of been clean from 15 years of stimulant abuse. I use to feel no pleasure from most things but as time goes on your brain starts to repair. The first 6 months are the hardest but after that things start to pick up. I started by snorting speed at 14 progressing into full blown addiction during university with every stim i could get my hands on alot of wasted money faking adhd to get scripts even mixing in vvyanse once i met somebody who bought a 6 month script from america for a months stay some doctors really didn't care back then. Meth is where i would feel like IQ gets damaged but straight amphetamine i believe i was smarter on it. But the depression almost killed me got into stimulant psychosis paranoia truly believed the police and the CIA where out to get me for a few years bugging my house and phone i would peer out my window for hours believing the far off park/forest was haunted by demons.

I believe i recovered quite a bit though my focus isn't that good i abused other drugs aswell including mdma.

My memory of those years is very impaired i lost alot of time. My heart is physically damaged aswell i believe resting heart rate of 110-120 bpm constant.

But the more time you spend the clean the better it gets every month. Cravings vary person to person i still do feel some inner craving but its controllable i don't physically need it.

Once you get past the first two weeks of insomia you really do feel each day as a brighter new day. I put on major weight gain aswell as a rebound effect.

 

[MrsGamp]

I believe your brain can recover in terms of your emotions and affective responses to things even after heavy stim abuse - but ‘heavy’ is very rubbery term in this context. After a six month IV coke addiction it took about a year for me to feel I was getting back to the ‘real me’ but after a subsequent six month IV meth addiction it only took about six months. These were very intensive almost daily habits and in both cases my recovery was aided partly by anti-psychotics but also by intensely working on learning techniques of Mindfullness and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy that I was introduced to in rehab. They are individualised techniques very very different to Group.

That said, I think cognitive impairment from stim abuse is potentially much longer lasting. I strongly feel that my general IQ and working memory have not recovered from this period in my life even after a period of five years totally sober. However, Around that time I also had 12 sessions of Electroconvulsive Therapy that may have impacted my memory and cognition.

To be honest, although I totally accept and respect the level of problem stims are causing you, your level of dexie abuse does not seem to be huge compared to what I have seen people on street speed and street meth and street coke recover from. Judging from your posts and your writing, you seem in pretty good shape cognitively and your emotions likely just need a period clear of being banged about by dexies on one hand and booze on the other. I wonder if what you are going through feelings-wise might be just as much the alcohol as the amps.

Speaking from bitter experience, I know that if you can crack a week or two off stims (and ideally booze) you will definitely feel an uplift. But those two weeks can be torturous in terms of your emotions and your cravings. I find it very difficult to achieve very often at present. Perhaps you need to consult a doctor for medication to get you over the hump - having read (or at least skimmed) many of the scientific papers addressing antipsychotic treatment for amphetamine addiction, and based on my own subjective experiments, a short course of an atypical antipsychotic may help you get from where you are now to feeling more capable of managing your recovery or at least getting a clear perspective on how you are really travelling.

Good luck @MrsGamp - you are a wonderfully interesting person and a delight to have around BL - I know you can get through this with patience, fortitude, the right meds and an understanding doctor. If you want to discuss stim recovery offline or want to unload on how hard things are feel free to DM me - I’ll probably be awake myself.

Thanks! I'm feeling so flat now it's hard to write much ...but appreciate, as always, your kindness and would certainly like to chat more ...oh dear I do need sleep! Have had no Dex at all since yesterday afternoon and yet am coming up for 3rd night of not being able to sleep!

Better knock the drink on the head for today I reckon...always tell myself it'll help me sleep but for some weird reason it seems to be having opposite effect today ...

 

[Jabberwocky]

give it time. it took me about a month in rehab before i was able to laugh. my dopamine system was totally fucked from an insane crack habit (up to a q a day, standard day would be an 8th). i felt like a totally joyless indivdual. my mood is still very up and down 2 years later but it was like that before i ever got addicted to drugs.

i do think that, either the long period of not using my brain cos i was addicted to drugs, or the effect of drug addiction (i was addicted to various downers for 16 years in total, with 6 years of heroin addiction) has negatively affected my cognitive abilities. i used to be really quick off the mark with stuff like mental arithmetic, and i'm just not now. i can still work things out but i'm nowhere near as sharp as i was. i think i'm too young (mid 30s) for this cognitive decline to be age related.

 

[FuckinAcidMan]

Stims are tricky because they can affect the way that your mind deals with sensory input, sort of "burning out" your sensorium so that normal life isn't as lively, but in a way quite different from opiod induced PAWS, which is the closest "prolonged bummed outtedness" I can think of as a comparison.

That being said recovery is absolutely possible, you've just gotta get into healthy routines and make sure to eat nutritive and balanced meals and get plenty of exercise.

 

[G_Chem]

For about 3 years I've been using Dex - much larger quantities last 6 months.

I'm thinking about quitting but find it so hard to function without them ... Just dead, numb, not interested in anything.

I know YouTube ain't exactly most credible source of info, but have watched couple of frightening videos on subject of Dex addiction - the theme being that even if you quit, your brain is permanently impacted and the "zombie" feeling never goes away, or not entirely.

I'm really frightened by this idea!

I could put up with the WDs and depression if there was hope they'd pass, or at least improve ... But permanent dopamine issues etc ?

I'd feel as good as dead if it was forever.

Sorry if this is a bit rambly - not on Dex today, recovering from binge. The idea of quitting (and those YouTube docs!) has spooked me and have had a few drinks ...(an issue in itself for me).

Any feed back from anyone who's kicked any sort of stim habit would be welcome...

My brother took d-amp (20-40mg) daily from when he was 14 or so until he was 21. He then abruptly decided to quit and did, don’t get me wrong the kids got more gumption than I but it can be done.

I remember he seemed a bit ass draggin for a few months but he’s pretty much back to normal now. He’d just sleep a lot, he’d go to bed at like 7pm to get up at 430-5.

He used cocaine here and there, and of course plenty of caffeine during those years too.

What kinda doses we talking?

-GC

 

[MrsGamp]

My brother took d-amp (20-40mg) daily from when he was 14 or so until he was 21. He then abruptly decided to quit and did, don’t get me wrong the kids got more gumption than I but it can be done.

I remember he seemed a bit ass draggin for a few months but he’s pretty much back to normal now. He’d just sleep a lot, he’d go to bed at like 7pm to get up at 430-5.

He used cocaine here and there, and of course plenty of caffeine during those years too.

What kinda doses we talking?

-GC

Average 65 mgs per day (15x5 mg tabs)
I know that for some people with ADD this is considered a therapeutic dose ...
The thing that spooks me is my inability to do anything without Dex anymore. Except lie in bed drinking and reading...

 

[G_Chem]

Average 65 mgs per day (15x5 mg tabs)
I know that for some people with ADD this is considered a therapeutic dose ...
The thing that spooks me is my inability to do anything without Dex anymore. Except lie in bed drinking and reading...

I’d honestly probably be the same, I get the worst withdrawal type symptoms off everything it seems.

How long have you waited? Any way you can find a fairly relaxing month to try and stop?

-GC

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Average 65 mgs per day (15x5 mg tabs)
I know that for some people with ADD this is considered a therapeutic dose ...
The thing that spooks me is my inability to do anything without Dex anymore. Except lie in bed drinking and reading...

it gets better eventually, your ability to do work again etc it takes some time though.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Average 65 mgs per day (15x5 mg tabs)
I know that for some people with ADD this is considered a therapeutic dose ...
The thing that spooks me is my inability to do anything without Dex anymore. Except lie in bed drinking and reading...

Nyet. In Australia the max therapeutic dose is 30 mg except in very special cases.

 

[MrsGamp]

Nyet. In Australia the max therapeutic dose is 30 mg except in very special cases.

Oh ...my ex used to be on 15 tabs a day - he got 400 tabs per month! Perhaps he was a "special case"?

Anyway I have behaved myself today and only had 5 ...