Steroids for 54 Year old

maakshif said:
there is no use for an AI when using TRT....the doses even on the high end of normal TRT dosages are not enough to cause need for an AI and actually using one on TRT could throw the body's T/E ratio way out of whack by driving estrogen too low...AI's are only necessary if someone is prone to gyno when using higher than normal Test dosages like we do for bodybuilding/powerlifting purposes

keep in mind that we want to maintain normal estrogen levels and we use an AI when using more than normal amounts of Test to control the estrogen that is converted from the test in addition to our natural production of estrogen...high estrogen causes many problems as we know, but driving estrogen lower than what the body needs/wants also presents many problems as well
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Maakshif is correct, no need for the AI's unless gyno is an issue, and since everyone is different, you won't know this until you are on and start to experience the symptoms. At low dose for TRT/HRT, it's highly unlikely and doesn't usually present the problem with too much free test converting to estrogen. Even with bloodwork, this is not something that can be predicted with any accuracy. Some are gyno prone and can experience the symptoms regardless of dose, but in most cases they're on the high end doses when they start to feel them. As far as maintaining normal estrogen levels, he is very correct. High estrogen levels are evil and a pain in the ass to deal with, especially psychologically. However, too low of estrogen in the system and you'll experience problems with your immune system - like catching colds more often or having trouble fighting off infections normally. Some estrogen is needed with the function of our immune system, so you don't want to block out all or too much.
 
I have been diagnosed with gyno, left nipple (cranberry size lump). Had a mammogram about 2 months ago, benign with annual exam recommendation. Occasionally it swells at little, itches slightly & becomes very sensitive.

Considering this, a low dose of an AI was recommended once a week by a vet on another board.

Thoughts?
 
You are wrong if you think there is no use for an AI for TRT doses. Some need their estrogen to fall lower in the range than others for healthy sex drive, joint health, etc. Also reducing bloat/development of mammary glands.

(why would whatchamacallit develop gyno if he didnt ever need an AI???)

Whatchamacallit, I'd recommend getting on 20mg of nolvadex per day and a very small dose of aromasin (exemestane). You will have to get multiple blood tests to determine what your dosage is to get you to fall in a range that is right for YOU. You're on GH also right? The nolvadex has a slight inhibition to IGF levels but this will be circumvented if you are supplying GH exogenously (which will raise IGF regardless of whether or not you take nolvadex - tamoxifen citrate). If you are on growth another thing to look at: Then I would recommend testing your prolactin levels because Growth can raise prolactin by inhibiting thyroid hormones. You may need a very small dose of T3 if thats the case. Or perhaps you could control prolactin with a drug such as pramixeole (sp?). Its a d2 agonist and will inhibit prolactin release.

I'd hope that your issue is just estrogen related as the D2 agonist kinda sucks with side effects imo and supplementing thyroid hormones is very serious (probably last thing you want to do is add more drugs).

best to you...please take what some of these people say with a large grain of salt.
 
Matsuo Munefusa. said:
You are wrong if you think there is no use for an AI for TRT doses. Some need their estrogen to fall lower in the range than others for healthy sex drive, joint health, etc. Also reducing bloat/development of mammary glands.

(why would whatchamacallit develop gyno if he didnt ever need an AI???)

Whatchamacallit, I'd recommend getting on 20mg of nolvadex per day and a very small dose of aromasin (exemestane). You will have to get multiple blood tests to determine what your dosage is to get you to fall in a range that is right for YOU. You're on GH also right? The nolvadex has a slight inhibition to IGF levels but this will be circumvented if you are supplying GH exogenously (which will raise IGF regardless of whether or not you take nolvadex - tamoxifen citrate). If you are on growth another thing to look at: Then I would recommend testing your prolactin levels because Growth can raise prolactin by inhibiting thyroid hormones. You may need a very small dose of T3 if thats the case. Or perhaps you could control prolactin with a drug such as pramixeole (sp?). Its a d2 agonist and will inhibit prolactin release.

I'd hope that your issue is just estrogen related as the D2 agonist kinda sucks with side effects imo and supplementing thyroid hormones is very serious (probably last thing you want to do is add more drugs).

best to you...please take what some of these people say with a large grain of salt.
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Pramipexole (generic Mirapex in U.S.) I would not recommend using pramipexole especially while on a cycle of AAS. The effect they have on the CNS may severely inhibit some people especially body builders and their ability to control muscle contractions, which is a huge necessity for anyone in the bodybuilding lifestyle. Now obviously it will not have this effect on everyone, but the inability for physicians to predict whether this will happen to a patient taking pramipexole makes me and would make others I know nervous. All in all it is a tricky medication to dose properly without unwanted side effects, I would stay away IMO.

I am not going to speak for maakshif but he was discussing the use of an AI while only on levels of TRT, not bodybuilding doses. In which case an AI like arimadex or aromasin taken would negate some of the effects of the TRT in the first place. I am assuming that whatchamacallit is running test at bodybuilding doses not merely TRT doses, however I know nothing about the user or his dosage, that is my guess as to why he would need an AI for gyno flares.
 
SOMAma said:


Pramipexole (generic Mirapex in U.S.) I would not recommend using pramipexole especially while on a cycle of AAS. The effect they have on the CNS may severely inhibit some people especially body builders and their ability to control muscle contractions, which is a huge necessity for anyone in the bodybuilding lifestyle. Now obviously it will not have this effect on everyone, but the inability for physicians to predict whether this will happen to a patient taking pramipexole makes me and would make others I know nervous. All in all it is a tricky medication to dose properly without unwanted side effects, I would stay away IMO.

I am not going to speak for maakshif but he was discussing the use of an AI while only on levels of TRT, not bodybuilding doses. In which case an AI like arimadex or aromasin taken would negate some of the effects of the TRT in the first place. I am assuming that whatchamacallit is running test at bodybuilding doses not merely TRT doses, however I know nothing about the user or his dosage, that is my guess as to why he would need an AI for gyno flares.
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I appreciate any feedback. I'll be discussing them with my Endo.

Here's my story of TRT;

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=526236

My apologies to the OP for hijacking his thread.
 
SOMAma said:


Pramipexole (generic Mirapex in U.S.) I would not recommend using pramipexole especially while on a cycle of AAS. The effect they have on the CNS may severely inhibit some people especially body builders and their ability to control muscle contractions, which is a huge necessity for anyone in the bodybuilding lifestyle. Now obviously it will not have this effect on everyone, but the inability for physicians to predict whether this will happen to a patient taking pramipexole makes me and would make others I know nervous. All in all it is a tricky medication to dose properly without unwanted side effects, I would stay away IMO.

I am not going to speak for maakshif but he was discussing the use of an AI while only on levels of TRT, not bodybuilding doses. In which case an AI like arimadex or aromasin taken would negate some of the effects of the TRT in the first place. I am assuming that whatchamacallit is running test at bodybuilding doses not merely TRT doses, however I know nothing about the user or his dosage, that is my guess as to why he would need an AI for gyno flares.
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well you're an idiot for assuming just because he developed some mammary gland tissue then he must not be running TRT doses. Did you even read the post I made that you quoted? It IS possible to develop gyno with TRT doses if estrogen is left unchecked. No shit log onto any TRT forum on the web and listen to them debate the use of aromasin vs arimidex.

An anti-aromatase drug will not negate the effects of TRT. Where did you get that? It will actually increase the anabolic and androgenic effects of the medicine by blocking the conversion of some of the testosterone to estrogen. The goal obviously isnt to block ALL conversion because some estrogen is needed to maintain health/vigor. However, we are all different and some folks need very low levels of estrogen (especially I've noticed people that were hypogonadic from an early age).
 
Matsuo Munefusa. said:
well you're an idiot for assuming just because he developed some mammary gland tissue then he must not be running TRT doses. Did you even read the post I made that you quoted? It IS possible to develop gyno with TRT doses if estrogen is left unchecked. No shit log onto any TRT forum on the web and listen to them debate the use of aromasin vs arimidex.

An anti-aromatase drug will not negate the effects of TRT. Where did you get that? It will actually increase the anabolic and androgenic effects of the medicine by blocking the conversion of some of the testosterone to estrogen. The goal obviously isnt to block ALL conversion because some estrogen is needed to maintain health/vigor. However, we are all different and some folks need very low levels of estrogen (especially I've noticed people that were hypogonadic from an early age).
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Matsuo, Maakshif and myself have all said the same thing. No need to introduce antiestrogens unless gyno is an issue and perhaps in Whatchamallit's case, he may have an unusually high level of estrogen that's not as a result of TRT doses. We have had males in their early 20's, large frame, heavyset, but athletic - most of these guys played highschool and college football. They never questioned their hormone profiles because they were always told that they are just big guys who like to eat. You've probably seen men like this, many of them have what the smaller guys like to call "bitch tits" and always attribute it to the accumulation of fat overall. The majority of them we've asked to have their physicians do bloodwork on them - especially when they found difficulty losing bodyfat with dieting and activity in check. That majority had gyno and high estrogen levels, only a few had low testosterone levels below baseline for their age. Now this is just a small example, but like we've all said - each person is different and we can't stress more than enough that it's important to know what your hormone levels are, especially before doing any gear - this includes estrogen.
 
Matsuo Munefusa. said:
get him to an endo and measure his base testosterone.

perhaps he is a candidate for TRT then its simple just two shots the rest of his life with a little AI.
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for real... this is what I'm on now (legally).

I do 1/2ml of test-450 a week (more than average :), most clinics start you around 100mg and I'm doing 225... but the wife is very happy) and 1/2mg of arimidex every other day... 250iu of hcg on the 2 days before my weekly shot to keep the boys working at least a bit.

stronger, bigger where it counts, hornier....

it's NOT a cycle... you do it EVERY week.
 
Whatchamacallit said:
500mg q 7 days is hardly "low dose test for maintenance". 8)

He needs to be seen by a doc and have a blood draw. A good doctor, more precisely an Endocrinologist, will not only be looking at his testosterone level, but also many other factors. Plus at his age, given we don't know his risk factors for cardiovascular disease, prostate cancer etc; he will need to closely monitored for adverse changes in his lipids, psa, h/h etc.
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This is probably what concerns me the most that would cut the lights on the party. Worst case scenario is if PSA in particular is off the charts and doc says we need to stop HRT now. Let's say I'm not recovering natural testosterone and he doesn't want any more T or clomid or anything for a year or so at least until the PSA gets back to normal. I lose all my gains and don't produce any natural T. I guess doc would eventually put me back on HRT but low enough dose that would get me to about where I started from except now I need shots the rest of my life to obtain even that meager minimum. I wonder how many (if anyone) has ever entered this nightmare?
 
500mg / 7 days is hardly "low dose test for maintenance".

He needs to be seen by a doc and have a blood draw. A good doctor, more precisely an Endocrinologist, will not only be looking at his testosterone level, but also many other factors. Plus at his age, given we don't know his risk factors for cardiovascular disease, prostate cancer etc; he will need to closely monitored for adverse changes in his lipids, psa, h/h etc.
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Lil'Edgy said:
This is probably what concerns me the most that would cut the lights on the party. Worst case scenario is if PSA in particular is off the charts and doc says we need to stop HRT now. Let's say I'm not recovering natural testosterone and he doesn't want any more T or clomid or anything for a year or so at least until the PSA gets back to normal. I lose all my gains and don't produce any natural T. I guess doc would eventually put me back on HRT but low enough dose that would get me to about where I started from except now I need shots the rest of my life to obtain even that meager minimum. I wonder how many (if anyone) has ever entered this nightmare?
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I don't think PSA is thought of as an important indicator of prostate issues, as it once was..!!

Are you looking at this from a TRT (testosterone replacement therapy) perspective?
TRT is about replicating normal physiological levels of testosterone, dosed at 100mg/week not at 500mg/week as stated above...
With normal ish' levels of testosterone, high estrogen, DHT, prostate issues shouldn't be a problem...
 
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